Well, you have gained my attention Sir, I'm going to follow this and see where it goes
Just wanted to say that I nominated this TL for a Turtledove.
(Egoistically hoping that it will be continued this year, too.)
Up until the part where Vespasian died and the Romans launched their failed counterattack, things were going almost the same as OTL. Josephus, who was a firsthand witness to the battle claimed that "Roman morale had suffered severely. Defeat was unfamiliar, disaster on this scale unprecedented, and the soldiers burned with shame to think that they had left their commander to his fate. But Vespasian consoled them..." (BJ IV, 27) And without as charismatic a commander as Vespasian, the soldiers never were re inspired and continued to refuse to fight.Meshakhad said:To make Roman soldiers unwilling to fight... Gamla must have been nightmarish.
The battle of Gamla took place in November of 67. In late 67, Vindex in Gallia rebelled against Rome with the claimed intentions of replacing Nero with Galba, beginning the anarchy of the Year of the Four emperors. By even the swiftest courtiers Rome is still at least two weeks away from Gamla, but is closer to Gallia. News of both catastrophes should reach Nero around the same time, and although the Roman defeat in Gamla was terrible, senatorial ambitions to replace Nero, as per the Pisonian conspiracy probably take precedence. However, the Judean revolt still needs to be quelled. The year of the Four Emperors will develop differently.Mike Louis said:I would hate to be the roman messager who would have to deliver the bad news to Emperor Nero. Something tells me that Nero himself will have to take charge of putting the Judean revolt himself, or else some other of the more civilized provinces of the Empire might start getting ideas of revolting themselves. Even worse someone in the Senate or more likely the commander of either the Rhine or Danube legions or even both might decide that a "regime change" in Rome might be in order.
That's what this update will be about!Salvador79 said:Also, there`s over 30,000 Roman soldiers still in the Galillee. Their leadership is likely to be someone from upper-middle ranks. Are they in a position to lead a retreat to someplace safe? If not, what are they doing, entrenching themselves? How do they supply themselves?
altwere said:I can't wait to find out where you are taking this.
ImperatorAnonymous said:Well, you have gained my attention Sir, I'm going to follow this and see where it goes
Mr. Magi said:Holy shit on the Battle of Gamla. It made Jotapta look pleasant to fight against. This is gonna definitely fuck with the Roman timetables and maybe make Parthia consider supporting the Jews. Adiabene might also give a steady trickle rather than a drop after that slaughter.
Even if the Romans win, this definitely going to take longer and be bloodier.
Grouchio said:So how would this Battle of Gamla affect his policy towards the so-called eternal peace with Rome? Would he be willing to side with the rebellion against Rome and invade the Empire? Which would increase in consequence when the insane Nero tries to pull something and end up getting assassinated/overthrown in revolt? Could we see more claimants to the Year of too many Emperors than OTL? And most importantly, could we see permanent schisms within the Empire because of this?
As you noted, Vologases I had already fought a prolonged war with Rome over the course of his reign. It had ended in a quasi-victory for Parthia with Vologases on friendly terms with Nero . Vologases did not want to fight another war just 5 years later. In OTL he stayed hands off during the Year of the Four Emperors, though he did promise Vespasian assistance. Now, a large portion of his apparently aloof positions were probably due to an inability to react fast enough to make a difference, which will not be the case in this TL, but Vologases was apparently reluctant to commit himself to war. Despite this, Parthia will soon have a very good reason to intervene, and will do so.Mr. Magi said:I wouldn't mind this. I learned so much stuff about the Jewish Revolt through this TL. I really am curious to see how bad this will hit Rome, and what Parthia might do because of this.
You pretty much nailed it. In OTL Jotapata was taken by subterfuge in the middle of the night, and the Jewish defenders of the Galilee had a fair amount of bad luck. So far in this timeline, the campaign has cost the Romans more, both in time and in manpower. Things will start to diverge even more so soon enough.BlondieBC said:So for one less familiar with 1st Century Judea, after the POD, what is the main change in Roman strategy? Are the legions going slower and massacre more due to the crucifixion of the senior Roman?
Much appreciated! You deserve to win more than I do. Thanks for spurring me to continue to update. This timeline is not yet halfway finished. If everything goes according to plan, I should have regular (i.e daily or at least weekly) updates through mid-May when I should reach as far as I originally planned in my outline. After that, we’ll see how much more I have in me. There comes a certain point when so much has been butterflied away that alternate history verges into make believe, and I for one lose a great deal of interest. I’ll keep writing until I feel that this TL has reached that point.Salvador79 said:Just wanted to say that I nominated this TL for a Turtledove.
(Egoistically hoping that it will be continued this year, too.)
Practical Lobster said:Very cool! I'm starting to see how "Zion" might become independent or at least keep up their successes in this timeline.
They still have so many hurdles though.
Mike Louis said:If the the last post was any indication, it looks like the commander of the Rhine legions found out about the Roman setbacks in Judea and decided that perhaps there's needs to be a new boss running things in Rome. One last thing, I wonder if Nero pulled a Cobra Commander and killed the messager who told him the news about Gamla.
Salvador79 said:Welcome on board, Samaria!
The next spring/summer is going to be another round of devastations and slaughterings even without reinforcements or competent leadership.
What begins to scare me is the butterflies on more stable, core territories of the Empire, and the prospect of having the military anarchy of the 3rd century come one-and-a-half centuries earlier. I don`t suppose this TL is going to delve deeper on that issue, as it´s been wonderfully and knowledgeably focused on YHWH´s Chosen Peoples so far. But it appears to start happening...
Also, quo vadis Christianity? The still tiny minority could either face a much crueller crackdown on all things smelling of rebellious Jews... or maybe...
There was even an amusing incident on the Galilee with fake armies and boats.
Joseph managed to outwit his adversaries, in a sadistically brutal fashion, and gain the support of the common Galileans via various ruses involving pretend messengers to Jerusalem.