Orville_third
Banned
Hooray! Now let's hope they kick the haberdasher out, even if we're winding up in NATO. (BTW, Dewey/LaFollette might just get some small number of votes from Wallace/Taylor.)
The Prodigal Sons Return: The Progressives of Wisconsin and the Republican Party
- Thread starter DanMcCollum
- Start date
I suggest you read the below book to really get an understanding of what McCArthy was like as a person, and how he conducted an investigator.
Blacklisted by History The Untold Story of Senator Joseph McCArthy byStanton M. Evans
In essence the book blows up apart all slander about McCArthy that has emerged over the years. For example, he did not purposefully accuse innocent people of being communists,and he did not run HUAC as a tyrant, but was in fact an intelligent and thoughtful chairman who took much care to prevent the names of suspects from being named publicly.
Wishing you well, his majesty,
The Scandinavian Emperor
Not to step on a political landmine, but, personally, I have difficulty seeing McCarthy as an innocent victim of history. That does not mean that McCarthy was evil incarnate, he wasn't, but you can't argue that his rhetoric wasn't imflammatory or that he didn't made several wild charges.
The truth of the matter was that, in many ways, there were two Joseph McCarthys. The first, the one seen by those who knew him personally, was a warm, affectionate, caring and deeply charasmatic man. The second is the one which emerged in the public eye throughout the 1940s and 1950s (of course, there was hints of that one before as well; McCarthy never had a problem flaunting the rules when he wanted to; as a young judge he had utilized his office in order to campaign, going against Wisconsin laws of the time, and he was also quite willing to tell different tales about how he received his war wound, for instance).
If its any consolation in this ATL, we haven't seen the end of Joseph McCarthy, and his life is going to be a much happier one than in OTL, if not nearly as dramatic.
I have to say, this is very interesting! The writing flows really well, and all the events seem - especially since you mention you've done research via your thesis on this - eminently plausible. Really look forward to the 1948 Presidential Election
Dude, I love your TL, its one of the best I've read; it means a lot that you've been following mine.
This is the most detailed timeline I've ever read; and I hope your thesis was of the same level. I hope La Follette will help Dewey is his quest to the White House!
Wolfpaw
Banned
Evans' work is a right-wing apologetic. It has no new or original insights on McCarthy or the Red Scare in government. The fact that the book is almost solely endorsed by Glenn Beck, Ann Coulter, Bob Novak, and other far-right pundits instead of serious scholars is also pretty telling.
For serious studies on McCarthy, I'd recommend A Conspiracy So Immense: The World of Joe McCarthy by David Oshinsky and Thomas C. Reeves' The Life and Times of Joe McCarthy
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This is a very well written and realistic timeline, and those do tend to come in short supply so you can bet that I will be reading this to see where it all goes.
Chapter 5
Madison, WI
State Capitol
October 13, 2010
Bronson Cutting LaFollette sat in a plush chair, relaxing as he cast his gaze around the governor’s office. It was the far wall that carried the brunt of his attention or, at the very least, the three framed pictures which hung prominently there; one of his grandfather, one of his uncle Phil, and a third one of himself. He smiled wistfully; there was much to be proud of in his own term as governor of course, but it seemed somehow wrong for his own picture to be hanging with such esteemed company, even if they all did share a name.
“Mr. Senator, are you ready to begin,” the young man across from him asked.
Bronson chuckled dryly, “Oh please, just call me Bronson, I haven’t been a Senator for many years.” He hoped he didn’t sound bitter. They say that time healed all wounds, and his retirement had been pleasurable, but there was a part of him which still burned, nearly twenty years later.
The younger man nodded, “Yes, of course, Mr. LaFoll --- Bronson.” A blush rose to his face, and he chuckled nervously, and put his hand out, “My name is Fred Cieslewicz, I’m with the University of Wisconsin.”
Bronson nodded, “You're from, the Progressive Voices Project, right? At least, I believe that’s what Dr. Day’s letter called it.”
“Yes, that’s right, the Progressive Voices Project. We’re collecting interviews from important progressive leaders of the old Progressive Party, and the Republican Party. My advisor, Dr. Day, think’s its important to record their stories. He took the project over from Dr. Maney a decade or so ago.”
“Yes, I’ve heard of it.”
Fred smiled and let out a slightly nervous laugh, “It was nice of Governor Laird to offer the use of his office.”
“Political differences aside, Governor Laird is a good man. Honestly, I haven’t been this office in years; it brings back the memories, which is good for you, I suppose.”
Fred laughed, and Bronson could see the tension leaving the young man. “Yes, yes it will.” He took a digital recorder out of his pocket and placed it on the table. “Mind if we begin?” When Bronson nodded his assent, he clicked the record button, “This is Fred Cieslewicz, interviewing Bronson Cutting LaFollette on behalf of the Progressive Voices Project. The date is October 13, 2010. Mr. LaFollette, do you agree to be recorded for this project?”
“I do”
And so the interview began. The first few questions were to be expected, focusing on Bronson LaFollette’s early life and schooling. After roughly fifteen minutes, the interview turned to more important matters.
“How old were you, when your Father was elected Vice-President?”
Bronson sighed inwardly to himself. One of the problems with coming from a prominent family, no matter the many benefits, was that no matter your own accomplishments, you always stood in the shadow of your prominent ancestors.
“Let’s see, I was born in 1936, so I would have been 12.”
“And what can you tell us of the election?”
“Well, I was pretty young at the time, but I remember it having been quite a surprise at the time. Dad had just been re-elected to the Senate over McCarthy back in ’46, and then Bob Taft had asked him to head that committee investigating communism. I think Dad had been planning on retiring after his term was up, he always said that he had never wanted to be in the Senate in the first place, although I think he secretly enjoyed it.”
“Anyway, Tom Dewey called Dad up during the convention and asked if he’d serve as his Vice-President. Dad didn’t really want to, I think, but Dewey kept pushing and asked him to think it over. Mom and I were home when the call came, and I remember Dad coming out of his office, looking pretty shaken, and asked us how we’d like it if he ran for Vice-President.”
“I was only twelve then, you’ll remember, and I thought it would be the greatest thing in the world. I told him that, but Mom seemed less sure. We talked about it for a while, and I kept telling him that he should do it, and then Mom came around too.”
Fred nodded his head, “Do you remember meeting Dewey at all?”
“During the election, or after?”
“During.”
“Ah, yes. Well I remember meeting him many times after the election; him and Dad became real close friends, but I’m sure you know that. But I only remember meeting him once during the election itself. Mr. Dewey, I always remember him as ‘Mr. Dewey’ you see, invited us to his farm in upstate New York. Dapplemere Farm, I think it was.”
“Anyway, I think it was supposed to be a photo-op, and a ‘getting to know you’ meeting. Mr. Dewey liked to know who he was working with at all times; even a Vice-President. And, back then, Vice-Presidents weren’t exactly kept in the loop. Hell, Roosevelt didn’t even tell Truman about the Manhattan Project while he was still alive.”
“So, we all went to his farm, and had a great time. Mr. Dewey loved that farm! Well, Dad and him got to talking, and Dad told how he had grown up on a farm himself; Grandpa had bought one back before he was governor. And, from that point onward, they became good friends. Mr. Dewey even sent me personal congratulations on my first election as Attorney General, and came to visit when I was elected governor back in ’68.”
“I’m sure you’ve heard that your Father has been called the first of the ‘modern Vice-Presidents.’ Do you agree with that?”
“Oh, certainly. Like I said before, Vice-Presidents, back in the day were
looked at like people used to look at children ‘they should be seen, and not heard.’ They might campaign for the President, and they here the heads of the Senate, but they rarely were close advisors to the President. But Dad was different. He was one of the first Vice-Presidents, I think, who was a close friend and advisor to any President.”
“What made your father different from past Vice-Presidents?”
“Well, like I said, him and Dewey were friends. In some ways, they had a lot in common. Both had an amazing sense of humor, but clammed up in public. I think Dewey was, for all of his courage, very very shy, and I know Dad was too. So they had a similar disposition. But, even more than that, I think it was two factors. First of all, Mr. Dewey demanded that the people around him speak their minds. He insisted on it. If there was one thing he couldn’t stand, it was a ‘yes man.’ Dad was never afraid of speaking his mind, although he would always do it in a very polite way, you know? Secondly, Dad never wanted to be President. He always used to joke that that was Uncle Phil’s game, not his. And so, that meant that Mr. Dewey never had to worry about Dad trying to overshadow him, or trying to play politics with other members of ‘the team.’”
“That’s what he called his cabinet, by the way, ‘the team,’ and I think it speaks volumes about that man. He always saw his administration as a team, working together in harmony, not like FDR’s or Truman’s.”
“But, you know, the more I think about it, there one was more thing that drew those two together: clean government. Dewey had a fixation on clean government; it was more than corruption being ‘bad’, I think it morally horrified him. I mean, this is the man who helped bring down Tammany Hall for Christ’s sakes! And Dad? Well, the progressives in Wisconsin had always stood against corruption in all of its forms; and Grandpa, Uncle Phil and Dad had fought against it where ever it stood. I think that that was one of the biggest things that he and Mr. Dewey had in common.”
“Mr. LaFollette; what do you think your Father’s biggest contribution to the Dewey campaign was?”
Bronson slouched back in his chair to think about it for a second, before pushing forward once again. “Well, two things, I would have to say. He definitely carried Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota for Dewey. He even got Stassen and “Wild Bill” Langer of North Dakota out there campaigning! God, Dewey hated that man. The guy tried to get North Dakota secede from the United States!” [FN1]
“But, more than that, I think it was the advice he gave Dewey in the beginning of the campaign. This was at Dapplemere, and Dad was really taking a chance; like I said, Vice-Presidents didn’t usually go around giving advice to the candidates. But Dewey had said how he wanted to have a very highbrow campaign, because he felt horrid over some of the things he had said back in 1940.”
“I remember Dad nodded and said “You can have substance and fire at the same time,” and then went on to tell him how close McCarthy had come to beating him, because Dad had tried to run a strictly highbrow campaign. Then he pointed out that Grandpa always tried to educate voters, but could still throw some red meat when it was needed, and that Teddy Roosevelt had done the same. Well, I think the last one got him, actually, Dewey always had a bit of hero worship when it came to Teddy Roosevelt …”
“DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN” – Chicago Tribune, November 3, 1948 [FN2]
Electoral Map, 1948
Blue - Dewey/LaFollette
Red - Truman/Barkley
Green - Thurmond/Wright
[FN1] A true story. In the 1930s, William “Wild Bill” Langer was serving as Governor of North Dakota as the Non-Partisan League candidate for the Republicans. At the time, it was the practice for state workers to give part of their paycheck to support the Governor’s political apparatus (in this case, the Non-Partisan Leader, the newspaper of the NPL). Langer ran into troubles when he required the Post-Office, federal workers, to do the same. He was arrested and tried to corruption, and found guilty.
It was at this point that things got strange. Langer barricaded himself, along with several of his closest advisors, in the newly built state capitol, from which he announced that North Dakota was seceding from the United States to become an independent republic. After a short period of time, he gave himself up, and went to prison, but the story did not end there!
Instead, he appealed the case and was given a new trial. The new jury was hopelessly hung, and so a third trial was ordered, and that jury found him innocent. Langer then ran against his own Lt. Governor, who had assumed office after Langer’s arrest, and beat him to retake the governor’s mansion. After two terms, Langer ran for the Senate and won, and served there until his death (oddly enough, a few days after his arch enemy, and former political ally, A. C. Townley, the founder the NPL)
I’m not sure to what extent Langer will figure into this timeline; I cannot see Dewey feeling anything but disdain for the man. But I figured he was such an extreme character, that he deserved to be mentioned!
[FN2] I figure that Dewey carries Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota and Ohio, in addition to his victories in OTL. Ohio and Illinois are the easiest, as they went for Truman by less than 1.0%. Wisconsin was lost by Dewey by just over 4.0, but the presence of LaFollette on the ticket will likely carry it for the Republicans. Minnesota and Iowa are the hardest (after all, Humphrey was campaigning heavily for Truman in that election), but the presence of a regional politician who also knows other local figures and encourages them to become active could well swing them in Dewey’s favor. (I also suspect that Stassen will be offered a position in a Dewey administration if Minnesota should vote ‘correctly.’ Dewey may well grumble at the idea, this is the same man who investigated each and every member of his administration as Governor of New York, but I think he would come around to it in the end. And, after all, Stassen wasn’t corrupt, and the idea of a ‘team of rivals’ might well appeal to Dewey. In any case, Stassen is better than Taft!)
You will notice that I leave California off the list. Although Dewey lost California very narrowly in OTL, this was with Earl Warren on the ticket. With Warren left off, I suspect that Dewey doesn’t carry California, even if he is campaigning somewhat more vigorously in the ATL
And so, there you have it. I was trying to think of a way to describe the election of 1948 without bogging down in needless details of the race, and hit around the idea of having someone interview Bob Jr.'s son about it (and, even better, I get to foreshadow at some later events as well!). I hope that it was successful.
On a side note, the next post will return to matters in Wisconsin, where the election of 48 produces some very substantial divergences from OTL , and then I'll return to the Dewey presidency.
As usual, all comments and questions are not onl welcomed, I insist on them! I also want to thank everyone who has been following this so far. I know its cliche, but its the readers who make a good TL not only worth reading, but also the experience it self (to my mind, every TL is somewhat collaborative. None of us know our topics so well that we can't have some interesting details, or personages, brough to our attention from our readers!)
On a side note, I had wanted to create a map for the 48 election, but was unsure of how to do so. Does anyone have any tips on good electoral map creation?
Madison, WI
State Capitol
October 13, 2010
An elderly former Governor and Senator, Bronson C. LaFollette
Bronson Cutting LaFollette sat in a plush chair, relaxing as he cast his gaze around the governor’s office. It was the far wall that carried the brunt of his attention or, at the very least, the three framed pictures which hung prominently there; one of his grandfather, one of his uncle Phil, and a third one of himself. He smiled wistfully; there was much to be proud of in his own term as governor of course, but it seemed somehow wrong for his own picture to be hanging with such esteemed company, even if they all did share a name.
“Mr. Senator, are you ready to begin,” the young man across from him asked.
Bronson chuckled dryly, “Oh please, just call me Bronson, I haven’t been a Senator for many years.” He hoped he didn’t sound bitter. They say that time healed all wounds, and his retirement had been pleasurable, but there was a part of him which still burned, nearly twenty years later.
The younger man nodded, “Yes, of course, Mr. LaFoll --- Bronson.” A blush rose to his face, and he chuckled nervously, and put his hand out, “My name is Fred Cieslewicz, I’m with the University of Wisconsin.”
Bronson nodded, “You're from, the Progressive Voices Project, right? At least, I believe that’s what Dr. Day’s letter called it.”
“Yes, that’s right, the Progressive Voices Project. We’re collecting interviews from important progressive leaders of the old Progressive Party, and the Republican Party. My advisor, Dr. Day, think’s its important to record their stories. He took the project over from Dr. Maney a decade or so ago.”
“Yes, I’ve heard of it.”
Fred smiled and let out a slightly nervous laugh, “It was nice of Governor Laird to offer the use of his office.”
“Political differences aside, Governor Laird is a good man. Honestly, I haven’t been this office in years; it brings back the memories, which is good for you, I suppose.”
Fred laughed, and Bronson could see the tension leaving the young man. “Yes, yes it will.” He took a digital recorder out of his pocket and placed it on the table. “Mind if we begin?” When Bronson nodded his assent, he clicked the record button, “This is Fred Cieslewicz, interviewing Bronson Cutting LaFollette on behalf of the Progressive Voices Project. The date is October 13, 2010. Mr. LaFollette, do you agree to be recorded for this project?”
“I do”
And so the interview began. The first few questions were to be expected, focusing on Bronson LaFollette’s early life and schooling. After roughly fifteen minutes, the interview turned to more important matters.
“How old were you, when your Father was elected Vice-President?”
Bronson sighed inwardly to himself. One of the problems with coming from a prominent family, no matter the many benefits, was that no matter your own accomplishments, you always stood in the shadow of your prominent ancestors.
“Let’s see, I was born in 1936, so I would have been 12.”
“And what can you tell us of the election?”
“Well, I was pretty young at the time, but I remember it having been quite a surprise at the time. Dad had just been re-elected to the Senate over McCarthy back in ’46, and then Bob Taft had asked him to head that committee investigating communism. I think Dad had been planning on retiring after his term was up, he always said that he had never wanted to be in the Senate in the first place, although I think he secretly enjoyed it.”
“Anyway, Tom Dewey called Dad up during the convention and asked if he’d serve as his Vice-President. Dad didn’t really want to, I think, but Dewey kept pushing and asked him to think it over. Mom and I were home when the call came, and I remember Dad coming out of his office, looking pretty shaken, and asked us how we’d like it if he ran for Vice-President.”
“I was only twelve then, you’ll remember, and I thought it would be the greatest thing in the world. I told him that, but Mom seemed less sure. We talked about it for a while, and I kept telling him that he should do it, and then Mom came around too.”
Fred nodded his head, “Do you remember meeting Dewey at all?”
“During the election, or after?”
“During.”
“Ah, yes. Well I remember meeting him many times after the election; him and Dad became real close friends, but I’m sure you know that. But I only remember meeting him once during the election itself. Mr. Dewey, I always remember him as ‘Mr. Dewey’ you see, invited us to his farm in upstate New York. Dapplemere Farm, I think it was.”
“Anyway, I think it was supposed to be a photo-op, and a ‘getting to know you’ meeting. Mr. Dewey liked to know who he was working with at all times; even a Vice-President. And, back then, Vice-Presidents weren’t exactly kept in the loop. Hell, Roosevelt didn’t even tell Truman about the Manhattan Project while he was still alive.”
“So, we all went to his farm, and had a great time. Mr. Dewey loved that farm! Well, Dad and him got to talking, and Dad told how he had grown up on a farm himself; Grandpa had bought one back before he was governor. And, from that point onward, they became good friends. Mr. Dewey even sent me personal congratulations on my first election as Attorney General, and came to visit when I was elected governor back in ’68.”
“I’m sure you’ve heard that your Father has been called the first of the ‘modern Vice-Presidents.’ Do you agree with that?”
“Oh, certainly. Like I said before, Vice-Presidents, back in the day were
looked at like people used to look at children ‘they should be seen, and not heard.’ They might campaign for the President, and they here the heads of the Senate, but they rarely were close advisors to the President. But Dad was different. He was one of the first Vice-Presidents, I think, who was a close friend and advisor to any President.”
“What made your father different from past Vice-Presidents?”
“Well, like I said, him and Dewey were friends. In some ways, they had a lot in common. Both had an amazing sense of humor, but clammed up in public. I think Dewey was, for all of his courage, very very shy, and I know Dad was too. So they had a similar disposition. But, even more than that, I think it was two factors. First of all, Mr. Dewey demanded that the people around him speak their minds. He insisted on it. If there was one thing he couldn’t stand, it was a ‘yes man.’ Dad was never afraid of speaking his mind, although he would always do it in a very polite way, you know? Secondly, Dad never wanted to be President. He always used to joke that that was Uncle Phil’s game, not his. And so, that meant that Mr. Dewey never had to worry about Dad trying to overshadow him, or trying to play politics with other members of ‘the team.’”
“That’s what he called his cabinet, by the way, ‘the team,’ and I think it speaks volumes about that man. He always saw his administration as a team, working together in harmony, not like FDR’s or Truman’s.”
“But, you know, the more I think about it, there one was more thing that drew those two together: clean government. Dewey had a fixation on clean government; it was more than corruption being ‘bad’, I think it morally horrified him. I mean, this is the man who helped bring down Tammany Hall for Christ’s sakes! And Dad? Well, the progressives in Wisconsin had always stood against corruption in all of its forms; and Grandpa, Uncle Phil and Dad had fought against it where ever it stood. I think that that was one of the biggest things that he and Mr. Dewey had in common.”
“Mr. LaFollette; what do you think your Father’s biggest contribution to the Dewey campaign was?”
Bronson slouched back in his chair to think about it for a second, before pushing forward once again. “Well, two things, I would have to say. He definitely carried Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota for Dewey. He even got Stassen and “Wild Bill” Langer of North Dakota out there campaigning! God, Dewey hated that man. The guy tried to get North Dakota secede from the United States!” [FN1]
“But, more than that, I think it was the advice he gave Dewey in the beginning of the campaign. This was at Dapplemere, and Dad was really taking a chance; like I said, Vice-Presidents didn’t usually go around giving advice to the candidates. But Dewey had said how he wanted to have a very highbrow campaign, because he felt horrid over some of the things he had said back in 1940.”
“I remember Dad nodded and said “You can have substance and fire at the same time,” and then went on to tell him how close McCarthy had come to beating him, because Dad had tried to run a strictly highbrow campaign. Then he pointed out that Grandpa always tried to educate voters, but could still throw some red meat when it was needed, and that Teddy Roosevelt had done the same. Well, I think the last one got him, actually, Dewey always had a bit of hero worship when it came to Teddy Roosevelt …”
“DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN” – Chicago Tribune, November 3, 1948 [FN2]
The new President of the United States: Thomas Dewey
Electoral Map, 1948
Blue - Dewey/LaFollette
Red - Truman/Barkley
Green - Thurmond/Wright
[FN1] A true story. In the 1930s, William “Wild Bill” Langer was serving as Governor of North Dakota as the Non-Partisan League candidate for the Republicans. At the time, it was the practice for state workers to give part of their paycheck to support the Governor’s political apparatus (in this case, the Non-Partisan Leader, the newspaper of the NPL). Langer ran into troubles when he required the Post-Office, federal workers, to do the same. He was arrested and tried to corruption, and found guilty.
It was at this point that things got strange. Langer barricaded himself, along with several of his closest advisors, in the newly built state capitol, from which he announced that North Dakota was seceding from the United States to become an independent republic. After a short period of time, he gave himself up, and went to prison, but the story did not end there!
Instead, he appealed the case and was given a new trial. The new jury was hopelessly hung, and so a third trial was ordered, and that jury found him innocent. Langer then ran against his own Lt. Governor, who had assumed office after Langer’s arrest, and beat him to retake the governor’s mansion. After two terms, Langer ran for the Senate and won, and served there until his death (oddly enough, a few days after his arch enemy, and former political ally, A. C. Townley, the founder the NPL)
I’m not sure to what extent Langer will figure into this timeline; I cannot see Dewey feeling anything but disdain for the man. But I figured he was such an extreme character, that he deserved to be mentioned!
[FN2] I figure that Dewey carries Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota and Ohio, in addition to his victories in OTL. Ohio and Illinois are the easiest, as they went for Truman by less than 1.0%. Wisconsin was lost by Dewey by just over 4.0, but the presence of LaFollette on the ticket will likely carry it for the Republicans. Minnesota and Iowa are the hardest (after all, Humphrey was campaigning heavily for Truman in that election), but the presence of a regional politician who also knows other local figures and encourages them to become active could well swing them in Dewey’s favor. (I also suspect that Stassen will be offered a position in a Dewey administration if Minnesota should vote ‘correctly.’ Dewey may well grumble at the idea, this is the same man who investigated each and every member of his administration as Governor of New York, but I think he would come around to it in the end. And, after all, Stassen wasn’t corrupt, and the idea of a ‘team of rivals’ might well appeal to Dewey. In any case, Stassen is better than Taft!)
You will notice that I leave California off the list. Although Dewey lost California very narrowly in OTL, this was with Earl Warren on the ticket. With Warren left off, I suspect that Dewey doesn’t carry California, even if he is campaigning somewhat more vigorously in the ATL
And so, there you have it. I was trying to think of a way to describe the election of 1948 without bogging down in needless details of the race, and hit around the idea of having someone interview Bob Jr.'s son about it (and, even better, I get to foreshadow at some later events as well!). I hope that it was successful.
On a side note, the next post will return to matters in Wisconsin, where the election of 48 produces some very substantial divergences from OTL , and then I'll return to the Dewey presidency.
As usual, all comments and questions are not onl welcomed, I insist on them! I also want to thank everyone who has been following this so far. I know its cliche, but its the readers who make a good TL not only worth reading, but also the experience it self (to my mind, every TL is somewhat collaborative. None of us know our topics so well that we can't have some interesting details, or personages, brough to our attention from our readers!)
On a side note, I had wanted to create a map for the 48 election, but was unsure of how to do so. Does anyone have any tips on good electoral map creation?
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A fine update.
For electoral maps, Dave Leip is the man.
http://uselectionatlas.org/TOOLS/evcalc.php
For electoral maps, Dave Leip is the man.
http://uselectionatlas.org/TOOLS/evcalc.php
This could butterfly the entire civil rights era realignment. Has Truman already integrated the armed forces or will Dewey get to claim the credit for that? The problem is the historical animosity between the Left and progressives (though the terms are used interchangeably today, this TL rightly demonstrates how much progressives hated anything that smelled like communism). This is an issue that has come up when people try to create timelines about a third party between the guilded age and the twenties. The populists, Nonpartisan League, Farmer-Labor, Debs' Socialists and the progressive movement were all potential participants in a broad third front against the dominant right wing of the Republicans and the marriage of convenience between northern machines and southern segregationists but they generally hated one another more than they hated the established parties.
Unlikely as it is, it would certainly be cool if liberals shifted to this more progressive Republican party, leaving the Democrats as the exponents of segregation.
Unlikely as it is, it would certainly be cool if liberals shifted to this more progressive Republican party, leaving the Democrats as the exponents of segregation.
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Thanks for the heads up on the electoral maps; I always wondered how people on this board seemed to be able to create them so easily! I've included one for the election of 1948 in the above post.
I have certain plans for Richard Nixon in the ATL, although they haven't quite developed yet. I would suspect that he's still busy investigating Hiss. Although there was no McCarthyism in the ATL, the Red Scare is still there, as is HUAC (and, for that matter, LaFollette's Committee. I hadn't given too much thought as to who might suceed him, in all actuality), so there will still be numerous investigations under way.
On a side note, while doing some research into the Supreme Court, I noticed that in OTL, Truman nominated two judges in 1949. In the ATL, I suspect that Dewey will get those nominations instead. I suspect that he will want to nominate judges of a Republican-Liberal bent but, save if he goes the political route, I'm not sure which judges he would be likely to choose.
Any ideas?
Wolfpaw
Banned
I could see Warren getting the first seat that opens up on the Supreme Court. That was the deal he cut with Eisenhower. That it happened to be the Chief Magistracy was a freak of fate. Warren and Dewey were close enough, after all.
As for the Red Scare; Bill Jenner and Pat McCarran were awfully loud.
As for the Red Scare; Bill Jenner and Pat McCarran were awfully loud.
Warren may be a good choice after all in that case, but I can see there being tension. Despite, being politically aligned, Dewey had very little respect for Warren, who he refered to as a "big dumb Swede". And there is the fact that Warren didn't deliver California for Dewey either. But, Warren would seem a safe liberal justice. I'll have to look into it. I wonder who else?
I'm half tempted to throw Gerald Boileau in there, and might in the future, except that I really am concious about this turning into a Wisconsin-wank (for instance I've promised myself there will only be one Wisconsin president on this TL
)Orville_third
Banned
I take it Wallace didn't do much? (He's mostly a footnote anyway...though he was a rather close advisor to FDR...)
Bye, Harry!
Bye, Harry!
Yah, Wallace did about as well as he did in OTL. In fact, with the Progressives having begun to rebuild themselves within the Republican Party in Wisconsin, I suspect that he did even worse in the state, while doing about the same in the rest of the country.
I suspect that both the Republicans and Democrats will be making efforts to draw in some of his supporters, however; or, at least, the ones who show the capacity to do well in government.
Keep it coming, Dan!
Thanks man! I plan to have a post dealing with the ramifications of 1948 in Wisconsin (and there are a lot ... actually, the more I read, '48 turning out this way it going to cause HUGE waves in the state, which I didn't initially expect) in the next day or so.
Thanks to all my readers, by the way, I know this TL is a bit out of left field, and I'm really happy to see I've sparked as much interest as I have!
On a side note; if there are any other regional historical folks out there who have anything to add to my TL, I'm all ears. I'd love to hear from anyone who has any ideas of what might be going on in, say, Kansas, Kentucky, or anywhere else as a result of my POD!