The most serene republic of France

[herkles]

So an idea I had was what if France became a republic much earlier instead of being a monarchy throughout most of its history. When I am mentioning republic, I am not referring to the French revolution style of republic but something similar to the aristocratic republics of the time, in particular the Venetian Republic. The question though is how to achieve this? What would be a good way for the Most Serene Republic of France to come about.

Then of course there is the question of what would this mean if France was an aristocratic republic instead of a monarchy.

 

[Byzantion]

So an idea I had was what if France became a republic much earlier instead of being a monarchy throughout most of its history. When I am mentioning republic, I am not referring to the French revolution style of republic but something similar to the aristocratic republics of the time, in particular the Venetian Republic. The question though is how to achieve this? What would be a good way for the Most Serene Republic of France to come about.

Then of course there is the question of what would this mean if France was an aristocratic republic instead of a monarchy.

Maybe have Paris become a merchant Republic at the Seine early on after the fall of the Roman Empire.

 

[Pauh the federalist]

Assuming a mercantile France, luxury domestic exports would likly be wine (champagne?) and textiles, depending on developments there could also be a industry based around stained glass, the latter having the church as a big buyer (it being their favorite window decoration and what not).

Stained glass | Definition, History, Techniques, & Facts

Stained glass, in the arts, the colored glass used for making decorative windows and other objects through which light passes. Strictly speaking, all colored glass is ’stained,’ or colored by the addition of metallic oxides. However, the term usually refers to the glass featured in ornamental or...

www.britannica.com

 

[NedStark]

You have a short window for the Second Republic in 1848 IOTL, although it would and could not be exactly the same - that republic was going to be an oligarchical one for a time period if it survived.

 

[Abd ar-Rahman II]

Maybe have Paris become a merchant Republic at the Seine early on after the fall of the Roman Empire.

Yeah but I have a very hard time seeing this republic unify and control modern France during the Middle age

 

[herkles]

Maybe have Paris become a merchant Republic at the Seine early on after the fall of the Roman Empire.

That is a possibility.

You have a short window for the Second Republic in 1848 IOTL, although it would and could not be exactly the same - that republic was going to be an oligarchical one for a time period if it survived.

Well I was looking at something much earlier then 1848.

Yeah but I have a very hard time seeing this republic unify and control modern France during the Middle age

Yea, though I imagine an early republican france would have quite different borders compared to OTL france.

Feel free to mention any other ideas one might have.

 

[CarlosMalvinas]

england would EASILY defeat france and scotland theyre both shit countries god bless the queen and prince philip.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

england would EASILY defeat france and scotland theyre both shit countries god bless the queen and prince philip.

What ?

 

[CalBear]

england would EASILY defeat france and scotland theyre both shit countries god bless the queen and prince philip.

Nice second post.

Been here since September so it it isn't trolling out of the gate, just plain old Nationalist bigotry and trolling.

Kicked for a week

 

[SandroPertini98]

I have an idea to develop: Étienne Marcel (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Étienne_Marcel) was a wealth Paris merchant, Provost of Paris Merchants (a sort of Mayor), who led the Third Estate in the General Estates during the Hundred Years’ War. When aristocracy, with Royal support, tried to stop his reform movement in 1358 he revolted and killed aristocrats representatives before the Dauphin. Then he tried to ally with the Jacqueries and Charles the Bad of Navarre to defeat his enemies but, fearing he would ally with the hated English Crown, he was betrayed and killed by a mob.
Now let suppose Marcel is quicker and smarter: during the assault to the Royal Palace he take the Dauphin Charles as hostage. With King John II prisoner in England after Poitiers, he found himself at the helm of France. He forced Charles to approve all conditions asked and with these builds up his support among merchant-urban class and poors. Loyal aristocrats are able to make Charles escape and gather an army, so Marcel decide to eliminate the cause of the problem, the Monarch himself. As Charles of Navarre or the English King give not more assurance then Dauphin Charles regarding Marcel and merchants’ rights, Marcel strike an alliance with the Jacqueries and declares the Monarchy abolished in favor of a Venetia/Florence-style oligarchic republic. Thanks to merchants wealthy he will be able to quickly assemble an army to counter Valois, Plantagenet and Navarre restoration attempts: when the Dauphin attacks he is taken by surprise and defeated, dying in the battle. With Charles dead for 1360 and John II prisoner, the next in line is Louis, Duke of Anjou, then John, Duke of Berry, and Philip the Bold, future Duke of Burgundy, but all three were prisoner in England, so the royal cause is left without a leader. Thanks that the Republic will be able to survive attacks, at least until Joan of Arc will came to save France from its enemies.

 

[Intosh]

So an idea I had was what if France became a republic much earlier instead of being a monarchy throughout most of its history. When I am mentioning republic, I am not referring to the French revolution style of republic but something similar to the aristocratic republics of the time, in particular the Venetian Republic. The question though is how to achieve this? What would be a good way for the Most Serene Republic of France to come about.

Then of course there is the question of what would this mean if France was an aristocratic republic instead of a monarchy.

French Monarchy's natural evolution was toward an absolutist Monarchy as began by Richelieu and Louis XIII and build by Louis XIV. If you want an aristocratic Republic, you need to introduce a strong Parliament at one point of the French History.

 

[Anarch King of Dipsodes]

Not really possible, IMO. All of the merchant republics of the Middle Ages were city-states. The "Dutch Republic" and Switzerland were federations.
A "republic" with large territorial extent would be dysfunctional, like Poland.

 

[Pauh the federalist]

How would a French Republic be able to succeed in navigateing its numerous challenges like the domesticated vikings (Norman's) the galic holdouts (Brittny), the shadow of middle Francia (Burgandy) and the encroachment of the only thing Voltaire is remembered for (Holy Roman empire)?

 

[herkles]

French Monarchy's natural evolution was toward an absolutist Monarchy as began by Richelieu and Louis XIII and build by Louis XIV. If you want an aristocratic Republic, you need to introduce a strong Parliament at one point of the French History.

Yea, I figure it would be much earlier than that.

Not really possible, IMO. All of the merchant republics of the Middle Ages were city-states. The "Dutch Republic" and Switzerland were federations.
A "republic" with large territorial extent would be dysfunctional, like Poland.

What about the Republic of Novogorod didn't that hold a large amount of land, could this french republic be similar? I also would disagree all republics were city states by looking to venice and genoa, which had considerable oversea holding, and in Venice's case the whole Domini di Terraferma. Could something similar happen her starting around Paris(or another important french city) and then expand outwards?

 

[Intosh]

France was a 15 to 20 millions country, the most populous in the entire Europe until the XIX century. I doubt that the Merchant Republics you are speaking about had more than 2 millions people...

You need to change France as early as the beginning of the Mobarchy becausz or you have a HRE style mess or a bakanised France between concurrenting Duchies...

 

[CarlosMalvinas]

england would EASILY defeat france and scotland theyre both shit countries god bless the queen and prince philip.

Wow guys exactly 2 years on from this incredible post. 2 years and I still havent recieved a valid counter-argument!
My good friend Patrick once told me; "History gives you knowledge, Alternate History gives you wisdom", and today this saying has not just stood the test of "time" (pardon the pun ) but it has become more relevant than ever before.

 

[CalBear]

Wow guys exactly 2 years on from this incredible post. 2 years and I still havent recieved a valid counter-argument!
My good friend Patrick once told me; "History gives you knowledge, Alternate History gives you wisdom", and today this saying has not just stood the test of "time" (pardon the pun ) but it has become more relevant than ever before.

..and exactly Two Year on, you are going to get kicked for TWO WEEKS (since you really seem to like the number 2),

1 week for Trolling
1 week for Necro'ing a two year dead thread.

Symmetry is, as I'm sure you will agree, truly beautiful.

See ya in TWO x 7!

Y'all REALLY don't want to try anything like this for 22*2 years.