The Man from Sao Paulo - Senna to Williams in 1992

4 - 1992 - F1 Imola & IndyCar Indy Carb Day
Early May 1992:

With the European Season full-swing, Ayrton Senna had more time in the Williams offices, and sat down with Adrian Newey, talking about development of the FW15 and its successor for the 1994 season. Senna was concerned about the massive target on the back of the team, after the utter domination of the first quarter of the season, and all of the attendant grumbling throughout the racing community. As Senna was a major player in the era of McLaren dominance with Prost, he knew full well that there was a limited amount of patience when it came to the level of superiority a team always at the top of the podium. Little did Ayrton know that this conversation would be prophetic, but as a driver with nearly a decade in Formula One, he trusted his instincts.
“Look, Adrian, we have a world-beater out there with the -14B. The only way anyone can beat us is if we beat ourselves. It’s three, four years ago all over again. Don’t you think the rules are going to change quickly? We’ll probably skate away with ’93, but it’s going to be rough come ’94, and we’re both still locked into the team then. Whatever happens, I want to be a winner. The FIA is going to be looking at us harder than anyone after a year like this, so we need to find other ways to win. Electronic aids? They’ll be gone. It’s going to come down to raw power and aero, everything else we’ve tried to build since the end of the turbo era is going to be taken away from us. With that, the cars are going to be pigs to drive. Mechanical grip will come into play more than ever. Renault will need to step up just in case other teams sneak electronics in under the FIA’s nose. All I ask is for you to let me help you build for not just next year, but for the one after. Things are going to change,” Senna took a long breath and looked into Newey’s eyes after voicing his concerns of the future, and wondered a bit if he said too much. However, if he said anything, he said the right anything.
“You leave McLaren for us, and McLaren falters, yet Williams runs faster than ever. Of course we wear the bull’s-eye, which happens with any success. But… I’ve heard the grumbling too. What’s it going to take?” Newey retorted, wondering what mess he got in, thinking he was on the cusp of a cakewalk.
“Assume that we’ll be looked at harder than anyone else. Assume we have to fight with teams that get to sneak aides past the stewards, yet if we tried to do the same we’d be disqualified. That’s it. Aero, power, and mechanical grip. Give me those three, ’94 will be a fight to remember.” The hesitation on Senna’s face disappeared, and raw focus returned. Adrian Newey knew his driver had a point, and wanted to press it for him. It was too obvious. Balestre was on his way out, and Ecclestone wasn’t the type to bend over for anyone he didn’t feel like. Now’s the time to get ready.


Round Five – San Marino Grand Prix – 17 May 1992 – Imola

It was standard service yet again during qualifying of the San Marino Grand Prix, with a Senna-led Williams front row and the Benettons filling the second. The race proved thrilling, but only if you cared about “Which Williams would win?” or “Who’s the best of the rest?” Senna made up for his gremlins in Spain, leading after each round of pit stops cycled through, with Mansell close behind. Behind the Williams, Brundle looked like he would finally have a shot against his teammate, but Schumacher managed to score another podium in the closing laps at Brundle’s expense. Further down, Tyrrell finally got on the board with a sixth from Groulliard, following Alboreto home to round out the top six.
Out of the points, Damon Hill picked off several positions in his second race with Brabham, including winning duels with Martini’s Dallara and Gugelmin’s Jordan. While the end of the day would see both of those drivers retire with mechanical troubles, the son of Graham proved impressive, and made teams like McLaren, Benetton, and Footwork look into hiring him full-time for the following season. Frank Williams was not surprised, and was pleased that his reserve driver could earn some experience without being a threat to the Constructors’ championship.
Sadly for Ferrari, their first race on home soil was for naught, as Capelli went off at Tamburello and Alesi’s engine blew. It was worse for McLaren, as they fell further behind Benetton in the battle for second in the Constructors Championship, with Patrese spinning off and gearbox issues for Berger. The memories of the glory years increasingly grew bitterer for the red and white of McLaren-Honda. It was only May, but the chill of winter was setting in at Woking.

IndyCar: Round Four: Carburetion Day: 76th Indianapolis 500 – 21 May 1992 – Speedway

Weather forecasts for Sunday were nothing like they should be for late May in Indiana. Expectations were for a cold and damp race, which was atypical. Not just the weather was downcast. Promising rookie Jovy Marcello had died less than a week before, and three-time Formula One champion Nelson Piquet suffered career-threatening injuries to his legs earlier in the month. Those crashes, and the weather, were heavy on the minds of the teams through Gasoline Alley. Setups would need to be overhauled, and grip would be scarce until rubber was lain down along the racing line. It would be a busy weekend, with more surprises yet to come.
Michael Andretti had taken the chance before the first practices that month to speak with Nelson Piquet, less than a year removed from Formula One and plenty experienced with the sport. The importance he stressed on spending as much time as he could working at the cars, with their complications and their radically different capabilities was pressed until Michael got the point. If he were to race at that level, he would be away from America for nearly a year, and would need to spend that year training and practicing to the utmost. Yes, he’d be waiting until 1994, he didn’t have a choice if he wanted to do this right.
 

Archibald

Banned
Good update. The more I read about it, the more I feel I really need to write my own F1 TL - dealing with Senna last F1 years past 1994.
 
And I Hope Ayrton Senna will look like if he Can't Die ITTL.

I'm a guy with Randy Owens' print "May Day" hanging in my living room, (and can't think of a place as "home" unless it's hanging up, ever since I bought it at the 2000 USGP,) who still cannot be happy on any May 1st. If I write his death, don't expect an update for awhile after that, it'll be creatively exhausting for me. In any case, he'll survive Imola '94, I promise you that. Otherwise, no further Senna spoilers.

Good update. The more I read about it, the more I feel I really need to write my own F1 TL - dealing with Senna last F1 years past 1994.

Check out TheMann's "He Came from Indianapolis," sadly that thread didn't last long, I thought it had a lot of potential, and it helped me get my thought processes going for my own. The Man fro Sao Paulo won't be a ripoff of it, different butterflies sometimes flying on parallel paths, but mostly wandering where butterflies do. In that TL, Senna's '94 Imola crash isn't butterflied out, but is injured more like Massa in '09. Considering the perfect storm of physics involved in that crash, it truly was a freak accident. Change the impact angle only a few degrees either way, and he sits out Monaco, and finishes the season afterward. Change the impact angle a degree or two, and he's injured like Massa.


In any case, thanks to both of you for the support. I decided to split my updates around Indy, so I forgot to add the below.


Points after five races:

Drivers’:
Mansell – 38
Senna – 36
Schumacher – 22
Patrese – 8
Berger – 7
Capelli & Alboreto – 4
Brundle – 3
Hakkinen & Alesi – 2
Wendlinger, Herbert, & Morbidelli, Groulliard – 1



Constructors’:
Williams – 74
Benetton - 25
McLaren - 15
Ferrari - 6
Footwork - 4
Lotus - 3
Minardi, March, & Tyrrell - 1
 
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Nice for Prost. :rolleyes: He isn't exactly a bad driver either...

Prost always was very good, but he was a tactics man, not a raw talent. He'd beat the pants off of a lot of drivers, but against Senna or Schumacher he'd get roasted.

@SPDoyle: So far, I like a lot. Nice work, though I do wonder what 1993 is gonna bring for Mansell in this world. Him and Senna probably won't get along well, regardless of the need or wish to pound Prost. As far as Indycar goes, there were a few guys of the era who could do real well in an F1 car (if you REALLY want to toss a curveball into the Indycar side, make Rick Mears have a comeback :cool:) but a lot of it was simply the fact that Indycar was at the time in the ascendant outside of North America, and Mansell in 1993 was a major kickoff point for that. You'll have to butterfly the Indycar split, though.

If you do butterfly the split, as I pointed out in He Came From Indianapolis, the possibilities are huge, especially if you are a fan of Little Al. He really did love racing at Indianapolis more than anything, in large part because by 1996 he was a two-time winner there and his dad and uncle had stacked up seven Indy 500 wins on their own. Dodge the split and allow him to use his racing as a way of helping him cope with his problems at home of the period and you'll go a long ways towards helping his career. In my Indycar TL, I had planned for Little Al to have a very long career, retiring from racing in 2010 after 26 seasons in Indycars, I just never wrote it out to that point. :)
 
Great timeline I love F1 and I was a huge mansell fan growing up but as I got older I have to respect the genius that is Senna. In regards to 94 I believe at Monaco there was going to be a drivers meeting about safety due to Berger and Senna having seen the Tamburello corner and the huge drop behind the wall, Also with Piquet and Berger having both crashed there in a six year period it was considered that safety might need to be addressed. Also if you don't have Senna crash at Imola you still have Rubens and Roland Ratzenberger having crashes that weekend which would and did affect Senna.
 
Intent is to bring Jacques in either as-scheduled in '96 or delay until '97. I'm still kicking around what to do with the '94 IndyCar season. Back in those days, I was more of an IndyCar fan than F1 (I loved both and still do,) and REALLY am living in denial at the moment to the fact that the butterflies I've been writing will take my favorite IndyCar driver when I was young (Unser Jr.) into a more difficult challenge. I have yet to resolve that situation, because I'm playing with driver lineups over the '93 & '94 seasons in both series.

Perhaps I'm tooting my own horn here, but if you want to jack the He Came From Indianapolis system there, I don't object at all. The '94 Indycar season is gonna be known for Mansell, Mario's retirement (that was his last year), the Ilmor-Mercedes monster motors and the split. Tony George's main objection with CART at the time from a technical perspective was that the cost of entry was very high, and Indy-only runners who were competitive were by that time very rare. (Though John Menard's boys did it year in and year out by then.) I had Tony there make a deal to allow the Monster motors about halfway through 1994, and in return allow big-displacement naturally-aspirated motors (Dan Gurney fought hard for that in the 1990s, as at the time it was legal to bring a 358-cubic-inch NA motor to Indianapolis, but it was hopelessly uncompetitive, though Dan said that with modern engineering and a few more inches people could make it competitive.) and the 2.65-liter Cosworth and Honda units to use a lot more boost to even out the power stakes and not allow Penske to run away with the competition.

Any way you look at it, the Indycar split has to be avoided. I did that by having a slight change of heart on the part of Tony George and have him decide to not take his ball and go home, but instead to use the massive resources at his disposal to go beat the hell out of the guys who had spited and insulted him repeatedly in the early 90s.

Schumacher, Hill, Hakkinen, Berger, or Villeneuve may make that category. Hill more for his name than talent, (yeah, he had it, but had incredible luck of right team at the right time.) Hakkinen IMO is one of the more underrated modern champions. Yeah, he had Newey, but his early McLaren years were about as tough mechanically as this point ITTL for Ferrari. Berger was just plain well-liked, and Villeneuve, had early on the combination of name and talent. Any of those five, and there'll be changes. A Senna or Schumacher is when you see the FIA go nuts.

I don't like writing about dead drivers either, so what I may recommend on the safety front is to have a raft of horrible accidents in 1994, perhaps starting with Barrichello, Ratzenberger and Senna at Imola (A lot of people forget that Rubens came terrifying close to biting it at Imola the same weekend that Roland and Ayrton died) and then a bunch of nasty accidents at Monaco (as well as perhaps at Barcelona and Montreal) convince the FIA that if they don't get this fixed right away somebody is gonna die as a result. If you really want to freak out the FIA, have an accident at Monaco that sees somebody land in the Mediterranean - that happened to Alberto Ascari in 1955 and Paul Hawkins in 1965 at Monaco in OTL.

Yeah, I looked towards that era for a lot of my research for that reason. The only way to really do it right is to kill off downforce AND power at the same time, and I'm not quite sure how to pull that one off at the moment.

The first obvious possibility is engine air-intake restrictors, like what has been used in sportscar racing since the 1970s. A more permanent solution might be production-based engines, using the same 3.5-liter limit but requiring the use of basic engine block and head designs as used in production cars. Honda, Renault, Peugeot, Ford, Ferrari and Mercedes all had V6 or V8 engines of around that displacement (Ferrari had a 3.5-liter V8 which debuted in the new-for-1995 F355), so you could go racing with production-based powerplants. (Yamaha and Ford could hook up here, as Yamaha at the time was building a 3.4-liter V8 for the Ford Taurus SHO sport sedan, so they aren't out of it either.

Thanks for all the support!

I'm kinda late, but enthusiastic. If you wish for any assistance, don't hesitate to ask. :)
 
Well I Better Cheer on for Nigel Mansell and I Hope He Can win Some More Formula 1 Races later on in 1992, So The Next Event will be Held in Monaco for the 1992 Monaco Grand Prix, I'm Excited!
 
Thanks for all the input!

oh, alesi's engine blew. now, THAT's uncommon for early 90s Ferraris :rolleyes: and Alboreto is 2 points ahead of him and on par with capelli. on a bloody FOOTWORK. hilarious :D

My research for my POD year was to assume the same amount of mechanical issues per team, as there wouldn't be any significant changes in performance. Alboreto scored several times in 1992, so it's no leap of the imagination.

Prost always was very good, but he was a tactics man, not a raw talent. He'd beat the pants off of a lot of drivers, but against Senna or Schumacher he'd get roasted.

On the whole, I'd agree, but the man IS fast when he is pushed outside of his comfort zone. Just not Senna or Schumacher fast.

@SPDoyle: So far, I like a lot. Nice work, though I do wonder what 1993 is gonna bring for Mansell in this world. Him and Senna probably won't get along well, regardless of the need or wish to pound Prost. As far as Indycar goes, there were a few guys of the era who could do real well in an F1 car (if you REALLY want to toss a curveball into the Indycar side, make Rick Mears have a comeback :cool:) but a lot of it was simply the fact that Indycar was at the time in the ascendant outside of North America, and Mansell in 1993 was a major kickoff point for that. You'll have to butterfly the Indycar split, though.

The only real POD in this year's IndyCar season will be the Long Beach race, which, when you look at the points table from that year, there are no real implications until the last race of the season. That will be covered in this TL. Mears' injury happens as OTL, and he'll retire. At 40+, and quite happy with his achievements in his career OTL, I'm not thinking he'd be able to handle the jump to F1, personally. Had he done it in the early 80's, oh, absolutely.

If you do butterfly the split, as I pointed out in He Came From Indianapolis, the possibilities are huge, especially if you are a fan of Little Al. He really did love racing at Indianapolis more than anything, in large part because by 1996 he was a two-time winner there and his dad and uncle had stacked up seven Indy 500 wins on their own. Dodge the split and allow him to use his racing as a way of helping him cope with his problems at home of the period and you'll go a long ways towards helping his career. In my Indycar TL, I had planned for Little Al to have a very long career, retiring from racing in 2010 after 26 seasons in Indycars, I just never wrote it out to that point. :)

I'm glad I found your TL, because the "Change of Heart" for Tony George was an interesting concept. My plan is to attack it from a different direction. I pretty much have the 1993 Indy 500 written in my head already, which will get him thinking in a different direction. As far as Little Al, I don't think he could really go past 2005 as a driver, but I'm thinking about the idea of him as either an owner, or part of IndyCar management.

Great timeline I love F1 and I was a huge mansell fan growing up but as I got older I have to respect the genius that is Senna. In regards to 94 I believe at Monaco there was going to be a drivers meeting about safety due to Berger and Senna having seen the Tamburello corner and the huge drop behind the wall, Also with Piquet and Berger having both crashed there in a six year period it was considered that safety might need to be addressed. Also if you don't have Senna crash at Imola you still have Rubens and Roland Ratzenberger having crashes that weekend which would and did affect Senna.

Drivers' safety WILL be addressed from the drivers side. With Senna living past Imola, there's going to be more of a coordinated response.

Perhaps I'm tooting my own horn here, but if you want to jack the He Came From Indianapolis system there, I don't object at all. The '94 Indycar season is gonna be known for Mansell, Mario's retirement (that was his last year), the Ilmor-Mercedes monster motors and the split. Tony George's main objection with CART at the time from a technical perspective was that the cost of entry was very high, and Indy-only runners who were competitive were by that time very rare. (Though John Menard's boys did it year in and year out by then.) I had Tony there make a deal to allow the Monster motors about halfway through 1994, and in return allow big-displacement naturally-aspirated motors (Dan Gurney fought hard for that in the 1990s, as at the time it was legal to bring a 358-cubic-inch NA motor to Indianapolis, but it was hopelessly uncompetitive, though Dan said that with modern engineering and a few more inches people could make it competitive.) and the 2.65-liter Cosworth and Honda units to use a lot more boost to even out the power stakes and not allow Penske to run away with the competition.

I read through HCFI a few times, and still remember you idea. Personally, while I see huge short-term benefits there, we all have the hindsight of 2013, and I'm a bit wary of writing myself into a corner because I can see costs escalating quickly as engine manufacturers wind up running multiple displacement programs trying to get an edge. Mercedes went into the '94 race knowing the 500I would likely be a one-trick pony, as CART didn't allow it to run increased boost throughout the rest of the season. To resolve this then, you're not just changing Tony George, you're changing CART as well. I'm not quite sure how I want to go about that side yet, because I loved the 2.65L era personally, and respected the fact about t/c cars being able to dial down the boost whenever technology pushes the speed up. NOW, that said, a strict equivalency formula between T/C and NA is possible, I'm just not technically fluent enough to say, "Ok, T/C 2.65L gets Xpsi boost, and a N/A 4L gets X extra fuel through the race weekend."

@Any way you look at it, the Indycar split has to be avoided. I did that by having a slight change of heart on the part of Tony George and have him decide to not take his ball and go home, but instead to use the massive resources at his disposal to go beat the hell out of the guys who had spited and insulted him repeatedly in the early 90s.

I'm thinking a mix of that, plus increased involvement between ISC and CART, being willing to throw USAC under the bus. Also, look for a better infield layout at Indy for road racing. Once F1 finally comes, they'll be racing on a track CART has spent a few races on already, with a 24-Hours of Indianapolis event held to FIA rules.

@I don't like writing about dead drivers either, so what I may recommend on the safety front is to have a raft of horrible accidents in 1994, perhaps starting with Barrichello, Ratzenberger and Senna at Imola (A lot of people forget that Rubens came terrifying close to biting it at Imola the same weekend that Roland and Ayrton died) and then a bunch of nasty accidents at Monaco (as well as perhaps at Barcelona and Montreal) convince the FIA that if they don't get this fixed right away somebody is gonna die as a result. If you really want to freak out the FIA, have an accident at Monaco that sees somebody land in the Mediterranean - that happened to Alberto Ascari in 1955 and Paul Hawkins in 1965 at Monaco in OTL.

Non-bolded section: The thing is, until the engines get cut down, Max and Bernie won't be game for screwing with the manufacturers unless there's a few drivers dead. Barrichello was the worst possible scenario for drivers safety, it was as much a fluke that he didn't die as it was for Senna to die. Had Senna received only Massa '09-level injuries, we'd have seen OTL '95 to the same specs as OTL '94.

Bolded section: Dammit! Mindreader! :p Well, it was something I'd been considering. I'm still in December of 1993.

The first obvious possibility is engine air-intake restrictors, like what has been used in sportscar racing since the 1970s. A more permanent solution might be production-based engines, using the same 3.5-liter limit but requiring the use of basic engine block and head designs as used in production cars. Honda, Renault, Peugeot, Ford, Ferrari and Mercedes all had V6 or V8 engines of around that displacement (Ferrari had a 3.5-liter V8 which debuted in the new-for-1995 F355), so you could go racing with production-based powerplants. (Yamaha and Ford could hook up here, as Yamaha at the time was building a 3.4-liter V8 for the Ford Taurus SHO sport sedan, so they aren't out of it either. I'm kinda late, but enthusiastic. If you wish for any assistance, don't hesitate to ask. :)

That's akin to what I was thinking myself. No airbox, and a mandated maximum surface area of the side inlets was my working proposal. Knowing that the sponsors would lose "billboard space," I'm kinda thinking along the lines of the '94 Penske's "Shark Fin" being mandated, just for ad purposes like they did not too long ago IOTL F1.

Regarding engine displacement in F1, I'm more looking towards either changing it for '94, (unlikely, because it's logically inconsistent with how I want to portray Mosley and Ecclestone,) or delay it as long as possible. There are few things I've noticed on my research that I REALLY want to use in this TL, and screwing too much with displacement as IOTL means it wouldn't be plausible for me to bring in by the late 90's.

Well I Better Cheer on for Nigel Mansell and I Hope He Can win Some More Formula 1 Races later on in 1992, So The Next Event will be Held in Monaco for the 1992 Monaco Grand Prix, I'm Excited!

Thanks! It's probably not coming "today" (I'm UTC -5, but my work hours pretty much have me living on UTC +7, so for me "today" is based on Western Siberia time. Shift work =/= fun.)

I appreciate all of the input! I'd post more often, but... I'm not really that creative on my work days. :/
 
Folks, I've been giving it some thought, and I'm thinking my posting rate will have to settle around 1-2x/wk on this TL. I'm getting back into my running now that it's less windy here in Oklahoma, so that's 4-5hrs/wk of my prime writing time gone versus when I started working on this. I hope you all will understand, I just need to take care of myself, and I absolutely am addicted to runners' high. For a liquor-loving smoker, I'm quite content with it being March and I'm already under 22:30 for my best 3.2mi/5.15km. (All-time PR is a 21:43 I did last July.)

So, sorry if the posting rate tapers off a little, but I'm not too sorry, because I gotta take care of myself.
 
Schumacher, Hill, Hakkinen, Berger, or Villeneuve may make that category. Hill more for his name than talent, (yeah, he had it, but had incredible luck of right team at the right time.) Hakkinen IMO is one of the more underrated modern champions. Yeah, he had Newey, but his early McLaren years were about as tough mechanically as this point ITTL for Ferrari. Berger was just plain well-liked, and Villeneuve, had early on the combination of name and talent. Any of those five, and there'll be changes. A Senna or Schumacher is when you see the FIA go nuts.
Glad you're a fan of Hakkinen. I really liked him, but seeing as I watched Senna die when I was a 6 year old, some of my opinions formed back then haven't stood the test of time. I remember those ridiculous seasons with red and white cars coughing up billows of smoke (was it Peugeot responsible for that), and my brother, knowing I liked Mika, winding me up. I agree with you on Hill and Jacques.

I've bolded your last sentence, because Berger, Hill et al. don't have the same punch as Senna. If you're waiting another couple of years for Schumacher to have the same impact, a lot of drivers get hurt in the meantime, but the FIA may not see the problem. Even if somebody ends up in Monte Carlo harbour, it may be dismissed as a problem with Monaco, rather than a problem with safety everywhere... :(

Another couple of good updates. :)
 
Glad you're a fan of Hakkinen. I really liked him, but seeing as I watched Senna die when I was a 6 year old, some of my opinions formed back then haven't stood the test of time. I remember those ridiculous seasons with red and white cars coughing up billows of smoke (was it Peugeot responsible for that), and my brother, knowing I liked Mika, winding me up. I agree with you on Hill and Jacques.

I've bolded your last sentence, because Berger, Hill et al. don't have the same punch as Senna. If you're waiting another couple of years for Schumacher to have the same impact, a lot of drivers get hurt in the meantime, but the FIA may not see the problem. Even if somebody ends up in Monte Carlo harbour, it may be dismissed as a problem with Monaco, rather than a problem with safety everywhere... :(

Another couple of good updates. :)

1994 isn't too early for a potential Schumacher death to have an impact, that's the thing. By the time this TL enters the 1994 season, a fan of F1 would be long-past the conclusion that Schumacher is a potential legend in need of parity to win a WDC. It was fairly obvious to me, IOTL, after the '93 season, that it wasn't just a matter of "if" it was a matter of "when." Kill him off in '94, and you might as well start a DBWI thread, because he was that promising by the '93-'94 offseason IOTL.
 

Archibald

Banned
As a matter of fact another F1 champion Mika Hakkinen nearly died at the australian GP in Adelaide late 1995. He had a broken skull and was swallowing his tongue. It was a very close call, and only Sid Watkins saved the day.
 
1994 isn't too early for a potential Schumacher death to have an impact, that's the thing. By the time this TL enters the 1994 season, a fan of F1 would be long-past the conclusion that Schumacher is a potential legend in need of parity to win a WDC. It was fairly obvious to me, IOTL, after the '93 season, that it wasn't just a matter of "if" it was a matter of "when." Kill him off in '94, and you might as well start a DBWI thread, because he was that promising by the '93-'94 offseason IOTL.
You have a point there. The thing is, the way these freak accidents happen, it may be 1995 or 1996 before such an accident does occur, whether it be to Berger, Hakkinen, Schumacher, Andretti or anybody else. There'll be more serious injuries and Ratzenbergers in the meantime, and the FIA won't react properly.

It was a very close call, and only Sid Watkins saved the day.
I wonder how many times this sentence was true back in those days? The very top of his Wiki page lists 6 drivers, without delving into the article. RIP Prof, a giant amongst men.
 
Prost always was very good, but he was a tactics man, not a raw talent. He'd beat the pants off of a lot of drivers, but against Senna or Schumacher he'd get roasted.


Prost was a lot faster than he's credited for. If we want to compare pure speed, we should compare the Prost of 1984 with the Senna of 88 and the Schumacher of 95.
Prost is the only guy who beat Senna on equal cars. He did it on points in 88, loosing the Championship because of rules then in place, again in 89, doing it Schummi style "I never expected his car to be there:D" and failed to do so in 90 (with a probably inferior car) because that time Senna did him a Schummi. He also beat Mansell when they were at Ferrari.
He didn't have the instant killer instinct that Senna and Schummi had from year one, and any one of those two could probably have won the title with Renault in 82 and 83, when Prost sometimes hesitated and lost the title. But when Prost was beaten by Lauda for the title in 84 he matured and became all about winning titles. What he never had was the kind of dominant ambition that would have allowed him to own a team the way Senna took over McLaren and Lotus and Schummi Benetton and Ferrari. That cost him a lot at Ferrari, and in 83 with a more agressive team mate might have costed him some peace of mind at Williams.
 
spdoyle said:
No airbox, and a mandated maximum surface area of the side inlets was my working proposal. Knowing that the sponsors would lose "billboard space," I'm kinda thinking along the lines of the '94 Penske's "Shark Fin" being mandated, just for ad purposes like they did not too long ago IOTL F1.
That's a really interesting approach.:cool: (It makes me think of the '68 Lotus, somehow, still the best-looking F1 cars ever.:cool::cool:) Thinking of restrictors, tho, what about mandating a "spec" FI injector? Or restricting the exhaust? (Too GP2?:eek:)
 

Archibald

Banned
He did it on points in 88, loosing the Championship because of rules then in place
Prost: 105 points
Senna: 94 points

World champion is... Ayrton Senna.

The reason why

Drivers Championship points were awarded on a 9-6-4-3-2-1 basis to the first six finishers in each race.[4]
Only best 11 results counted toward the championship.[5]
Prost scored 105 points during the year, but only 87 points were counted toward the championship.
Senna scored 94 points, with 90 points counted toward the championship by virtue of winning more races.
Thus, Senna became the World Champion, although he did not score most points over the course of the year.
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: (banging head against a wall)
 
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