The Maid of Norway Born Male

Discussion in 'Alternate History Discussion: Before 1900' started by Kellan Sullivan, Feb 14, 2019 at 3:05 AM.

  1. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Eirik II, King of Norway married first a Scots king's daughter (Margaret of Scotland) and then a Scots king's sister (Isabel de Bruce), but had no sons, only daughters to show for it - a daughter from each marriage.

    But what if his daughter from his first marriage - the famed Margaret, Maid of Norway - had been born male instead? Would a personal union between Scotland and Norway be on the cards? Or would Eirik's younger brother, Håkon (OTL Håkon V) take the throne of Norway while his nephew is in Scotland?
     
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  2. FalconHonour Well-Known Member

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    It makes no difference, if Alt! Margaret still dies on their way to claim the throne of Scotland, as she did OTL, to be honest. Boy or girl, if she's dead, she's dead.
     
  3. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    I think we’d be seeing a personal Union
     
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  4. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Well, lets assume her male counterpart DOESN'T die en route (and that's if the Scots/English would even be willing to entertain the notion of him coming over from Norway to start with). Sure, he's the seniormost heir, but he's also the heir to another crown which the Scots' nobles might not like. Fear of being swamped by a bunch of Norse nobles, kinda thing.

    Again, this is assuming that the Scots would even WANT such a king. The Maid was fine since she wasn't heir to Norway (FWIG). Her male counterpart (lets call him Magnus after Eirik's dad) would be indisputably the heir...
     
  5. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    True enough, though would they have much of a choice, might they try and get Eric to marry someone else then to sire another heir for Norway?
     
  6. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    I guess it depends on who Scotland is powerful enough to rope in for a new wife for Eirik (maybe him remarrying to Alasdair III's widow, Yolande de Dreux? IDK if that's possible, but I guess any port in a storm - she's a well-connected/rich foreign princess and she's IN Scotland, so perhaps).

    Otherwise Scotland might insist on Magnus making the sea journey and Eirik refuses to let his son leave Norway (until he's 18) so Scotland turns to no. 2 because they need a king NOW
     
  7. The Professor Pontifex Collegii Vexillographiariorum

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    Who would be the nearest alternatives to Magnus?

    Bear in mind that Norwegian rebellions/usurptions weren't rare either.

    My gut says personal union with Magnus toing and froing until he's offed and his heirs agree not to contest Norway against his cousins.
     
  8. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Sounds about right. Norway was mostly stable - as opposed to Sweden - at that point because kings either had only one surviving son FWIG. It wouldn't be unthinkable Eirik remarries sooner than OTL, and has another son or two - not sure why the delay OTL. But I don't hput very good odds on the PU surviving longer than a generation (if that)

    As to the nearest heir in Scotland, most of the local candidates (de Soules, de Ros, Dunbar, Vesci, Pinkney and Mandeville) are through bastard lines. Balliol is senior (fkllowed by Bruce and then Hastings) all through the female line from David, earl of Huntingdon. Comyn is both through Balliol's sister, Eleanor and descent from Donald III.

    The counts of Holland are next up through Dave's sister Ada. So, I'm not entirely sure who would have the best claim.
     
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  9. VVD0D95 Lemmy is God.

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    This would be quite interesting to see, and of course and not to take from this thread, but it does make me wonder what if one of David's sons had survived and had surviving issue as well aha
     
  10. Kellan Sullivan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, its messy. Cause in short we have the OTL scenario of after the Maid's death rearing its head earlier here.