The Hour of the Hurricane - An Imaginatively Titled Hawker Hurricane Thread

[NOMISYRRUC]

It does exactly what it says on the tin.

When I finish the FAA 1923-39 this will be complementary as it takes place in the same fictional universe.

Edit

And a misspelled one. Does anybody know how to edit thread titles?

 

[Lost Freeway]

Go to Thread Tools and select "Edit "title."

 

[Some Bloke]

What's the PoD?

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Up to 1935-36 exactly the same as OTL as far as single-engine fighter, light bomber and army co-operation design was concerned. So:

1. The Gladiator prototype still built and flown as OTL;
2. Specification P.4/34 was the same as OTL, with the same aircraft being built to meet it;
3. Specification F.5/34 was the same as OTL, with the same aircraft being built to meet it;
4. Specification A.39/34 was the same as OTL, with the same aircraft being built to meet it;
5. Specification F.9/35 was the same as OTL, with the same aircraft being built to meet it.

However, there was a change in twin engine fighters with the issue of a specification in the 1934-35 financial year for a twin engine fighter powered by 2 Merlin or 2 Taurus engines to compliment the Hurricane and Spitfire. Prototypes were ordered from Bristol and Gloster.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

It was a different story with aircraft production and therefore the production capacity of the aircraft and aero engine factories on the eve of Rearmament and the size of their design departments.

In 1923 the Cabinet approved an expansion scheme for a Home Defence Force of 594 aircraft in 52 squadrons plus 24 light bombers in 2 Emergency Squadrons to support the Expeditionary Force. The completion date was 31st March 1928. At that date there should have been 150 night bombers in 15 squadrons, 240 day bombers in 20 squadrons and 204 fighters in 17 squadrons in the Home Defence Force plus the 2 Emergency Squadrons.

At 31st March 1928 there were actually 332 aircraft in 29 squadrons. These consisted of 80 night bombers in 8 squadrons, 108 day bombers in 9 squadrons and 144 fighters in 12 squadrons. The planned number of light bomber squadrons had been reduced from 22 to 20 because the 2 Emergency Squadrons would be withdrawn from the Home Defence Force instead of being in addition to it. I have not included the 2 skeleton light bomber squadrons at the A&AEE in these totals.

At 31st March 1934 there were still only 39 squadrons or 75% of the force that should have existed 6 years earlier. The 39 squadrons consisted of 80 night bombers in 8 squadrons, 212 day bombers in 18 squadrons and 156 fighters in 13 squadrons. I have not included the 2 skeleton light bomber squadrons attached to the A&AEE or the squadron on loan to the Far East Command.

ITTL the 1923-Scheme was completed in March 1928. Therefore the RAF had the Home Defence Force of 594 aircraft in 52 squadrons, plus the 2 Emergency squadrons throughout the period 1928-34. The Air Ministry had to buy more aircraft to keep the larger force up to strength.

The RAF also maintained a bomber transport force of 50 aircraft in 5 squadrons rather than the OTL force of 24 aircraft in 2½ squadrons. The force of coastal reconnaissance flying boats and floatplanes was built up from 2 flights in 1923 to 14 squadrons in March 1934 in stead of the 7 squadrons of OTL. On top of the above there were the increases to the FAA described in the Fleet Air Arm 1923-39.

More work brought greater profits for the airframe and engine manufacturers some of which was ploughed back into greater spending on R&D and maintaining larger design departments. "More men with drawing boards and slide rules," should have allowed the firms to design new aircraft faster and build the prototypes in less time.

For example in the case of Supermarine, its main products before building the Spitfire were 83 Southampton (including 66 for the RAF), 14 Scapa and 17 Stranraer flying boats. ITTL it built 184 Southamptons (including 150 for the RAF), 28 Scapas and 34 Southamptons. That effectively doubled the income of the firm and enabled R.J Mitchell to employ more subordinate staff. Both the Supermarine Type 224 and 300 prototypes should have been completed and flown sooner. The extra factory space and workers required to build the extra flying boats would have helped Supermarine complete the first contract for 310 Spitfires placed in July 1936 by 31st March 1939 instead of 6 months later.

Note that Supermarine built 184 Southamptons instead of 166 ITTL because another 18 were ordered from the firm instead of the Blackburn Iris and Perth.

 

[riggerrob]

Spitfire production is delayed by tooling problems. Super marine is told to concentrate on building thousands of flying boats.
Meanwhile Canadian Car and Factory becomes a Hawker shadow factory earlier than OTL. Pretty quickly CCF concentrates on cannon-armed Hurticanes.
Since this POD has America remaining neutral longer, American factories try harder to sell sub-assemblies to Canadian factories that are working all-out. CCF partners with North American Aviation to buy stamped sheet aluminum ribs instead of the labour-intensive British-pattern ribs made of dozens of small pieces of aluminum riveted together.
NAA's massive sheet metal presses also supply larger pieces like cowlings, wing tips, etc. Next thing you know, NAA is selling (90% complete) tail kits to CCF. NAA finds ways to simplify production while still bolting redesigned components to original wing-root fittings.
The Hurricanes' tubular fuselage allows introduction of a variety of minor modifications one-at-a-time.
Eventually bored NAA engineers offer Meredith radiators, laminar wings, etc. so that later versions of CCF Hurricanes look like smaller versions of NAA P-51 Mustangs with thin, laminar wings, precise fit and finish, Meredith radiators, bubble canopies, etc.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Spitfire production is delayed by tooling problems. Supermarine is told to concentrate on building thousands of flying boats.

I advise you to read the last post on the FAA 1923-39 which this thread compliments.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

The Home Defence Fighter Force

The TTL Expansion Scheme A still provided for a force of 336 fighters in 28 squadrons by 31st March 1939. 300 in 25 squadrons for Home Defence and 36 in 3 squadrons for the ACBEF.

The TTL Expansion Scheme C still provided for 420 fighters in 35 squadrons. There were still 300 fighters in 25 squadrons for Home Defence, but the number provided for the ACBEF was increased to 120 in 10 squadrons. The completion date of Scheme C was 31st March 1937.

The TTL Expansion Scheme F still provided for a fighter force at 420 aircraft by 31st March 1939. However instead of 35 squadrons of 12 there were 30 squadrons of 14. That is 21 for Home Defence and 9 for the ACBEF. It also provided for a massive increase reserves to 225% of the Initial Equipment (I.E.) of the squadrons. This included an Immediate Reserve (I.R.) of 50% of the I.E. attached to the squadrons so that they had enough serviceable aircraft to put up their entire first-line strength at any one time.

IOTL the 310 Spitfires and 600 Hurricanes were ordered in June 1936 for delivery by 31st March 1939 to equip the 21 Home Defence squadrons. Both contracts were completed about 6 months late. ITTL the extra aircraft built by both firms until the middle of the 1930s helped them deliver the aircraft closer to schedule. Furthermore both companies completed the follow on contracts for 200 Spitfires and 400 Hurricanes September 1939 and October 1939 respectively.

Fighters for the Air Component of the British Expeditionary Force

The turret fighters being designed to Specification F.9/35 were to replace the Hawker Demon in the 9 ACBEF squadrons. At October 1936 the plan was to order 389 Hawker Hotspurs from Avro to equip these squadrons and provide the necessary reserves. Delivery was required by 31st March 1939.

However, IOTL Avro's factories were full of Ansons and Blenheims so the production contract went to Boulton Paul by default and the first 87 aircraft were ordered in April 1937. Deliveries did not commence until August 1939 and the 87th aircraft wasn't delivered until May 1940. At 3rd September 1939 the RAF actually had 4 squadrons of Hurricanes allocated to the ACBEF and 5 fighter squadrons equipped with the Blenheim Mk IF pending the arrival of the Defiant.

ITTL the Air Ministry changed its mind in the first half of 1936 and ordered 389 Hurricanes from Boulton Paul in June 1936. The first Boulton Paul built Hurricane was delivered in October 1938.

Army Co-operation

Scheme A left the home based army co-operation force at 60 aircraft in 5 squadrons. Scheme C increased it to 90 aircraft in 5 squadrons to be reorganised into 84 in 7 squadrons in wartime. Scheme F increased it to 132 aircraft in 11 squadrons.

There a requirement for 20 army co-operation squadrons. That is one for each of the 17 infantry divisions (5 regular and 12 TA) 2 reconnaissance squadrons and a communications squadron. Because of the time it would take to mobilise the TA divisions it was possible to maintain only 7 Regular and 4 AuxAF squadrons in peace with the remainder formed on mobilisation. The peace force would consist of the 2 reconnaissance squadrons (both regular) and 9 army co-operation squadrons (5 regular and 4 AuxAF). IOTL the first 144 Lysanders were ordered on September 1936 and delivered between May 1938 and April 1939.

In September 1939 No. 22 (Army Co-operation) Group, Fighter Command had 9 of the 11 squadrons that were required in peacetime. There were 2 reconnaissance squadrons equipped with the Blenheim Mk IV, 5 army co-operation squadrons equipped with the Lysander and 2 army co-operation squadrons equipped with the Hawker Hind. The 2 Hind squadrons were AuxAF units which converted to Lysanders in November 1939 and April 1940 respectively. These Blenheim squadrons were not the same as the 2 Emergency Squadrons previously referred to which were equipped with the Blenheim Mk I and were part of No. 6 Group, Bomber Command.

However, by September 1936 the Air Ministry and War Office had changed their minds. They decided that the field army needed more fighter protection on the scale of 10 squadrons plus one additional squadron per infantry division. Therefore 144 Hurricanes were ordered from Westland in September 1936 and delivered between May 1938 and April 1939.

Air Observation Post and Light Liaison

IOTL the RAF took over 14 British Taylorcraft Plus C light aircraft for communications duties in September 1939 and in 1940 the British Army took over 8 Plus D for experiments for AOP experiments. No. 651 (AOP) Squadron was formed in July 1941.

ITTL the Army purchased 8 Taylorcraft aircraft from the USA in 1937 for AOP trials and in the same year a bulk order was placed with British Taylorcraft aircraft that would equip the AOP flights which began forming in the summer of 1938. The required scale for the home army was one flight per infantry division, but only 11 were to be formed in peace with the balance being formed on mobilisation. As British Taylorcraft was not formed in 1938 IOTL some of the initial order would have been purchased from American Taylorcraft to speed up deliveries.

Note

ITTL 2 of the 14 TA infantry divisions were converted to AA divisions in the 1920s, which is why 12 were referred to instead of 14 in this part of the thread.

 

[Zheng He]

So no turret fighters ITTL?

 

[tomo pauk]

Thank you for the time line about the Hurricane.
I'll kindly propose that OTL stuff is not in the same posts with ITTL stuff post - for example the ITTL is the main thread, while OTL stuff is under 'authors notes', since this will allow easier tracking of the altrenate story.

 

[Some Bloke]

So no turret fighters ITTL?

So iTTL there is a God after all?

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

So no turret fighters ITTL?

Only 4 F.9/35 prototypes. 2 Boulton Paul Defiants and 2 Hawker Henleys. The specification for the Blackburn Roc is issued, but no prototypes were ordered. IOTL the production contract for 136 Rocs went to Boulton Paul. No production contract for Rocs allows Boulton Paul to concentrate on the TTL Hurricane contract.

IOTL the Defiant and Henley were intended to provide fighter cover for the BEF, which IMHO is the last place to put a turret fighter. Hence me replacing it with Hurricanes built by Boulton Paul.

Had the turret fighters designed to F.9/35 been intended to shoot down unescorted bombers coming across the North Sea from bases in Germany or at worst the Low Countries it would have been a different matter. Perversely the Hurricane and Spitfire were designed to do that job.

Edit

Correction for Henley read Hotspur. Except that as neither of the F.9/35 aircraft was destined to go into production the prototypes might not have been given names in the first place. Therefore instead of the Hawker Hotspur of this TL might have been known as the Hawker F.9/35.

Ditto the Henley because it doesn't go into production it like its rival from Fairey might not receive an official name either like and ITTL be known as the Hawker P.4/34.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Thank you for the time line about the Hurricane.

I'll kindly propose that OTL stuff is not in the same posts with ITTL stuff post - for example the ITTL is the main thread, while OTL stuff is under 'authors notes', since this will allow easier tracking of the alternative story.

I'm not going to change the posts I have already done, but I will bear that in mind. Although there are less changes than the FAA Thread it still requires a lot of work.

 

[Lost Freeway]

Look forward to the next update.

 

[Zheng He]

In fairness to the turreted fighter, Phil Hunter and No. 264 Squadron showed that success could be achieved with proper tactics. Unfortunately, Hunter was killed in August 1940 and the turreted fighter lost its main advocate and best tactician...

 

[Just Leo]

Only 4 F.9/35 prototypes. 2 Boulton Paul Defiants and 2 Hawker Henleys.

Has the Hotspur been renamed the Henley? And what is going to fill the tough high-speed target tug role?

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Has the Hotspur been renamed the Henley? And what is going to fill the tough high-speed target tug role?

You could have just told me that I made a mistake. Having said that if that's all you can find wrong with it so far I you must love it! I expected to incurred your wrath over the Twin Merlin fighter built to a 1934 specification, which is effectively the Bristol Beaufighter brought forward about 4 years.

As it happens the 2 Henley and 2 Fairey P.4/34 prototypes were still built, but 350 Hurricanes were ordered from Gloster instead of the 350 Henleys ordered and reduced to 200 aircraft in May 1937.

I haven't thought of what to use as the target tug yet. There aren't any Defiants or Lysanders to convert to target tugs either. However, as far as I can tell using the Henley as a target tug was an afterthought and their original use seems to have been as armament trainers.

Because I've done away with the Lysander in favour of more Hurricanes and I am going to do the same to the Gladiator there are going to be about 2,100 Bristol Mercury engines without aircraft. I might invent a specification in 1936 for a Mercury powered target towing aircraft which Miles would produce the winning design too. That would effectively bring the Miles Martinet forward by 5 years.

Otherwise 2,200 Battles were produced including some that were built as or converted to target towers. I might equip the 10 AASF light bomber squadrons with some of the extra Hurricanes and put the displaced Battles in the target towing units.

Do you think either of those would work?

 

[Just Leo]

if that's all you can find wrong with it so far I you must love it!

You have to stop eating jam sandwiches when using a keyboard.

You have many fine proposals made possible by a wealthy, benevolent government. It might also be benevolent if Frank Barnwell and Henry Royce lived longer. Henry died when he was my age. You haven't paid much attention to the engines which power these wonderful aircraft, and both Bristol and Rolls could easily have advanced their primary products with greater resources and sagacity. I have read that the ramp-head cost the Merlin 18 months to two years in development. The early concept of handed engines was displaced, and the adoption of pressure carbs and injection shunned until embraced with the magnificent Merlin 130s. 70/30 water/glycol in pressurized cooling systems came a little late, and, of course, the lack of constant speed props and the industry to manufacture them was an afterthought stirred by Roy Fedden.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

You have to stop eating jam sandwiches when using a keyboard.

As usual your attempts at whimsy read like smart aleckry if aleckry is a word. Also it makes it harder to read and understand what you're trying to say.

You have many fine proposals made possible by a wealthy, benevolent government.

My RAF at March 1935 has a first line strength of about 1,000 aircraft compared to about 850 in the real world. The Net Air Estimates for 1934-35 were £17.5 million. I wrote in the FAA 1923-39 thread that my changes to the RAF proper would cost an extra £3 to £4 million a year.

Between 1919 and 1934 the Treasury was paying over £300 million a year servicing a National Debt of £8 Billion. About £40 million spread over 10 years on top of that can be managed easily because it is neither here or there in the greater scheme of things. It will break the hearts of the British Disarmament Lobby, but it won't break the Bank of England. If write like a non-engineer you write like a non-accountant! If you really want to see something extravagant then I will have to send you my RAF 1919-39 Money No Object essay. Where a whopping £20 million extra is spent on the RAF every year increasing the National Debt by a huge £400 million or a whole five per cent!

At March 1935 the Armee de l' Air and Regia Aeronautica had first-line strengths in excess of 1,500 aircraft and in the case of France there is also the Aeronavle to add in. Both countries had much larger and more expensive standing armies to pay for.

Sufficient money for what I want to do was there, it was the political will and public support that was lacking IOTL.

Furthermore with the expansion schemes I have only made small changes to the order of battle in terms of the number of squadrons.

It might also be benevolent if Frank Barnwell and Henry Royce lived longer. Henry died when he was my age. You haven't paid much attention to the engines which power these wonderful aircraft, and both Bristol and Rolls could easily have advanced their primary products with greater resources and sagacity. I have read that the ramp-head cost the Merlin 18 months to two years in development. The early concept of handed engines was displaced, and the adoption of pressure carbs and injection shunned until embraced with the magnificent Merlin 130s. 70/30 water/glycol in pressurized cooling systems came a little late, and, of course, the lack of constant speed props and the industry to manufacture them was an afterthought stirred by Roy Fedden.

What wonderful aircraft?

So far there has only been one. The Bristol Twin Merlin Fighter. This is the only fictional aircraft in the TL and I don't consider it to be a superplane. With a 1934 start I think its perfectly reasonable to have it put into production at the end of 1938. Supermarine did so with the Spitfire started to a 1934 specification and Hawker did better with the Hurricane.

With the exception of that I have been building more of the OTL aircraft, not inventing new ones. So far I have been a paragon of prudence and conservatism with aircraft and engine design. That is why I haven't said that extra R&D money produces any improvements to aviation technology so far.

 

[NOMISYRRUC]

Gloster Production 1923-40

381 aircraft were built 1923-31. However, 11 were built in 1930 and only 3 in 1931. Of the 381 aircraft 133 were Grebes, 96 were Gamecocks and 74 were Armstrong-Whitworth Siskins.

No aircraft were built in 1932. Only 2 were built in 1933 and 11 were built in 1934. However, 141 were built in 1935 and 210 were built in 1936.

The 364 aircraft built 1933-36 included 146 Hart derivatives built under sub-contract from the Firm's new owner the Hawker Siddeley Group. That is 25 Audaxes, 47 Hardys, 2 Hartebees and 72 Harts. 10 were built in 1934, 117 were built in 1935 and 18 were built in 1936.

The rest of the aircraft built 1933-36 comprised the Gladiator prototype built in 1934 and 216 Gauntlets that is 24 in 1935 and 192 in 1936. The last of the 228 Gauntlets were built in 1937.

Production in 1937 was 265 aircraft, 1938 fell to 169 aircraft, climbed in 1939 to 524 aircraft and in 1940 to 1,247 aircraft. This suggests that Gloster could have built at least 96 more aircraft in 1938.

252 of the aircraft built in 1937 were Gladiators. Only 158 were built in 1938, but 320 were built in 1939 and the last 16 of the 746 production Gladiators were made in 1940.

Gloster production of the Henley was 10 in 1938, 171 in 1939 and 19 in 1940. A total of 350 Henleys were ordered in the summer of 1936, but it was cut back to 200 aircraft in May 1937. They were delivered between November 1938 and September 1940.

Gloster only built 32 Hurricanes in 1939 but produced a whopping 1,211 in 1940. Gloster built a grand total of 2,750 Hurricanes to 1942. The 500 Hurricanes were initially ordered to Contract No. 962371/38, but I don't have the date. The first Gloster Hurricane did not fly until after the outbreak of war and deliveries did not commence until November 1939.

The other 4 aircraft built 1937-40 were the 2 F.5/34 and 2 F.9/37 prototypes.

The Gladiator

A total of 581 production Gladiators were ordered to Air Ministry contracts as follows:

• 23 Gladiator Mk I to contract No. 419392/35 in July 1935 and delivered from 16/02/37 to 04/03/37
• 180 Gladiator Mk I to Contract No. 442476/35 in September 1935and were delivered from April to February 1938
• 28 Gladiator Mk I to Contract No. No. 704393/37 and delivered in September 1938
• 50 Gladiator Mk II to Contract No. 704393/37 and delivered from December 1938 to February 1939
• 300 Gladiator Mk II to Contract No. 952950/38 and delivered from March 1939 to April 1940.

The gap between February 1938 and September 1938 could be because the firm was working on its Gladiator export contracts.

Some of the contract numbers vary between sources and I have been unable to find the ordering dates for the last 3 batches. However, the suffix /37 denotes that Contract No. 704393/37 was placed in the 1937-38 financial year, so it was between 1st April 1937 and 31st April 1938. Similarly Contract No. 952950/38 must have been placed in the 1938-39 financial year so it must have been between 1st April 1938 and 31st March 1939

That is 231 Gladiator Mk I and 350 Gladiator Mk II. However, 98 Gladiator Mk II aircraft were either built as or converted to Sea Gladiators, 6 were diverted to Norway and 15 were diverted to Portugal. Therefore 462 Gladiators were delivered to the RAF.

186 new Gladiators exported before World War II. 165 were built to direct contracts and 21 came from Air Ministry Contract No. 952950/38 as follows:

• 26 Latvia ordered 27/05/37 and delivered August to November 1937
• 14 Lithuania ordered May 1937 and delivered October to November 1937
• 12 Norway which ordered 6 in 1937 plus a licence, but this was changed in July 1938 when 6 Mk II aircraft were purchased from Gloster which were diverted from Air Ministry contracts.
• 55 Sweden which ordered 37 in June 1937, which were delivered from June 1937 and 18 Mk II aircraft ordered in 1938
• 22 Belgium which were ordered in October 1937 and delivered between September 1937 and May 1938
• 36 China which were ordered in October 1937 and delivered 1937-38
• 4 Ireland which were ordered in November 1937 and delivered in 1938
• 2 Greece which were ordered in 1937 and delivered in 1938
• 15 Gladiator Mk II to Portugal which were ordered in February 1939 but I don't have the delivery dates, but they were diverted from Air Ministry contracts.

All of the above were Gladiator Mk I aircraft except where specifically stated.

116 second-hand Gladiators which came from RAF stocks were exported as follows:

• 55 Egypt from March 1939 taken from RAF Middle East stocks
• 30 Finland from December 1939 to January 1940. These were given to Finland along with 12 Hurricanes and 25 Gauntlets
• 6 Greece between December 1940 and March 1941
• 14 Iraq of which 9 were delivered October 1940 to December 1942 and 5 in March 1944 from RAF Middle East stocks
• 11 South Africa from March 1941. The South Africans also bought 4 Gauntlets in July 1940.