The Gentleman's Games: An alternate History of Rugby and Football

Hello, guys!

It is with great disappointement that i hereby announce the end of this TL.

The main reason why i ended this TL is, quite simply, i went way over my head. All i wanted to talk about was sports, but then, it eventually became a mess, with multiple PODs abound combined with a lack of planning and my general ignorance on the world's history resulted in implausible details and a convoluted story.

In short, i lack experience. So therefore, i plan on writing shorter TLs to gain experience and learn how to plan so i can do a remake of this TL in the future.

EDIT: God, i suck at grammar...
 
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Hello, guys!

It is with great disappointement that i herbey announce the end of this TL.

The main reason why i ended this TL is, quite simply,i went way over my head. All i wanted to talk about was sports, but then, it eventually became a mess, with multiple PODs abound combined in a lack of planning an my geberal ignorance on the world's history resulted in implausible details and convoluted expplaining.

In short,i lack experience. So therefore,i plan on writing shorter TL to gain expereince and learn how to plan so i can redo the TL in the future.

Oh that's a shame, I was enjoying it. Best of luck for the future.
 
Wait, people enjoy what i write? I find that hard to believe, TBH,what with my shitty grammar, my sub-par writing skills and my lack of planning.

I just think there aren't enough good sports alts on this site. Sure there are things you can work on but I was enjoying the narrative and liked the way you mentioned the wider world in the background
 
I just think there aren't enough good sports alts on this site. Sure there are things you can work on but I was enjoying the narrative and liked the way you mentioned the wider world in the background
Thanks, i guess... i'll write a short epilogue detailing the league champions, torunament champions as well as transfers and what i've planned for football and the world's development.
 
EPILOGUE PART 1: The domesic leagues

Chapter 1: SERIE A

1970s​

1970: cagliari (2)
1971: cagliari (3)
1972: cagliari (4)
1973: lazio (4)
1974: lazio (5)
1975: Napoli (3)
1976: torino (7)
1977: torino (8)
1978: vicenza (2)
1979: perugia (1) (title revoked, given to inter (10) )
1980: Inter (11)

The early parts of the decade in italy was dominated by cagliari, on the back of goalscoring duo Luigi Riva and roberto boninsegna, the two exchanging the top scorer titles between each other during the grande cagliari years. The streak was ended after lazio, carried by griorgio chinaglia, its rock solid midfield and its foreigners gregorz lato and rome-born argentine top scorer delio onnis would win back to back titles in 1973 and 1974.

The 1974-1975 season was considered one of the best seasons in serie A history, with a tight championship battle between 4 clubs and international talents on almost every team. Players such as paul breitner, wlodimierz lubanski, elias figueroa, wim jansen, ruud krol, rob rensenbrink, leopoldo luque, tostao, caju, edu, Gregorz lato, Delio onnis, teofilo cubillas, oleg blohkin and carlos alberto were among the foreign stars that plied their trade in italy, taking advantage of the implementation of free agency, following the example set by the NBA, Major league baseball and The NHL. Onnis, in particular, would light up the scoresheets across his entire career, eventually becoming the top goalscorer in serie A History.

Of all those stars, it would be an italian goalkeeper who would steal the show, as Dino zoff helped carry napoli to their first scudetto in 30 years before joining juventus the following season.

Despite the signing of zoff and a squad boasting the lokes of roberto bettega, Wim Jansen, Roger magnusson and an impenetrable wall composed of claudio gentile, gaetano scirea and sergio brio, juventus would lose the 1976 and 1977 scudetto to their fierce crosstown rivals torino FC, which boasted a very good squad as well, featuring francesco graziani and rob resenbrink among others. They would strike back by winning the UEFA Cup in 1977, the first trophy under new manager giovanni trappatoni.

One italian striker would become a binafide superstar in 1978: paolo rossi. In two loan spells, one at vicenza and another at perugia, the italian would carry both of those teams to an improbable scudetto.

The 1979-1980 season would see inter milan win their first title since the helenio herrera era thansk to an amazing oerformance by france's Crown jewel: michel platini, acquired from nancy-lorraine in 1977. Unfortunately, that season would be overshadowed by a huge match-fixing scandal involving the leqding clubs in italy, called the "totonero".

Paolo rossi and bruno giordano were among the players found to have fixed and gambled on games during the last 2 years. After the huge 1966 world cup scandal, measures to prevent match-fixing became much more strict, and the likes of juventus, AC Milan, napoli, Perugia and lazio were forcefully relegated at the end of the season, with perugia having their 1979 title revoked and given to inter, while giordano and paolo rossi being banned for 3 years, with rossi successfuly appealing to have his ban be lifted for the 1982 world cup. Of note was lazio star delio onnis who, after being cleared of charges and succesfully ending his contract with lazio after their relegation, would make an extremely controversial free transfer to AS Roma, a move so controversial that, during their 1980 coppa italia fixture, lazio fans threw a pig's head at onnis during a corner kick.

1980s
1981: Roma (2)
1982: fiorentina (4)
1983: roma (3)
1984: roma (4)
1985: hellas verona (2)
1986: juventus (12)
1987: napoli (4)
1988: milan (10)
1989: inter (12)
1990: napoli (5)

That contriversial move paid off big time for onnis and Roma, who had their golden years during the early 80s. Former AC Milan star niels liedholm, who got the job in the mid-70s, spent the last part of the decade building his squad, filling it with homegrown talent such as augustino di bartolomei, Carlo ancelotti, roberto pruzzo and captain Bruno Conti as well as brazilian internationals Paulo Falcao and Toninho Cerezo. The addition of onnis would push the Giallorossi over the top, dominating a poor Serie A league in 1980-1981 and almost doing a repeat in 1981-1982, but they and a recently promoted juve would lose the title on the last day of the season, where Liam Brady was Refused a penalty against catanzaro and got carded for diving, allowing fiorentina, led by giovanni galli, daniel passarella, pietro vierchowod, Eraldo Pecci, Daniel bertoni, Giancarlo antonioni, daniele massaro, francesco graziani and world cup MVP Socrates to win their first scudetto in 20 years.

Despite the world recprd signing of inter's platini to juventus, Roma would hold strong and win the 82-83 title before achieving the greatest feat in club history: the world's Second ever treble, winning Serie A on the back of 36-year old onnis's league-leading 33 goals, the coppa italia and, finally, beating liverpool at home in extra time to win the Champions cup.

While roma would go Back to back in europe agaisnt leeds united in 1984-1985, Italian football would once again show its star power, with the likes of michel platini, zbigniew boniek, Liam brady, trevor francis, Graeme Souness, Zico, Edinho, Eder, Socrates, daniel bertoni, alemao, lakhdar belloumi, Mark Hateley, Didier Six and karl-heinz rummenigge being joined by the best player in the world: diego maradona, who signed with napoli for a world record $6 million from barcelona.

Yet, despite all those stars being spread out across the league, it was hellas verona who would claim tge scudetto that year in perhaps the biggest upset in italian football history. Finally, after winning three coppa italias, one UEFA Cup and one cup winners cup, Trappatoni and platini's juventus finally wins the scudetto in 1986. However, maradona would make his presence know the following season. Boosted by the singings of alemao in 1984, bruno giordano in 1985 and Gamba Osaka Star Careca in 1986, Napoli would win their 4th scudetto in 1987, the argentine making up for a disappointing early exit in the 1986 world cup with a brilliant performance in the league, forming the ma-gi-ca trio with careca and giordano.

Meanwhile, frustrated with his favorite club suffering not one, but two relehations in the early parts of the decade, Media Mogul Silvio Berlusconi Buys AC Milan and proceeds to spend lavishly on the 1986 world cup winning dutch trio of ajax's Marco van basten and frank rijkaard and Arsenal's UEFA Cup winning MVP Ruud Gullit. Combined with The revolutionary coaching of unknown manager Arrigo Sacchi and homegrown talent such as franco barsei, fillipo galli, paolo maldini, mauro tassotti, alessandro Costacurta, alberigo evani, Demetrio albertini, Roberto donadoni, pietro verdis and the signings of Roma's carlo ancelotti and Cesena's Sebastiano Rossi, AC Milan would conquer everything in its path, winning serie A in 1988 and winning back to back european cups, which included a memorable thrashing of real madrid (5-0) and a dramatic shootout against ian rush and michael laudrup's liverpool in the 1989 final (5-4 Milan).

However, they failed to retain the scudetto in 1989, with their fierce rivals inter, led by former juve coach Giovanni Trappatoni and the likes of keeper walter Zenga, lothar matthaus, Giuseppe bergomi, nicola berti, Lakhdar belloumi, Andreas brehme and aldo serena, dominating the season, while napoli would come back in 1990 with a new magica trio, this time, the gi is youngster Gianfranco zola, who many sees as napoli's future franchise player along with midfielders fernando de napoli and massimo crippa as well as defender ciro ferrara. Napoli would also win their first european trophy: the UEFA cup in 1989.

1990s​

1991: sampdoria (5)
1992: milan (11)
1993: milan (12)
1994: sampdoria (6)
1995: torino (9)
1996 : fiorentina (5)
1997: parma (1)
1998: Udinese (3)
1999: fiorentina (6)
2000: lazio (6)

The 90s is seen by many as the greatest decad in football history. At the forefront of this decade was italian football, who was unanimously considered the best league in the world at that time. Italian clubs dominated europe, with three winning the champions cup and the UEFA Cup being won by italian teams every year except two: bordeaux in 1996 and schalke in 1997.

The decade began with sampdoria, a club born out of the merger between sampierdarenese and andrea doria and dominating the coppa italia in the 80s, would finally win their first league title since the early 20th century rhanks to the coaching if fiorentina's 1990 UEFA Cup winning swede sven-goran eriksson and the efforts of pietro vierchowod, gianluca pagliuca, michele serena, moreno mannini, Toninho cerezo, Fausto pari, Atillo lombardo and the duo of roberto mancini and gianluca vialli. The genoa club would then add 1991 champions cup winners Vladimir Jugovic and Sinisa Mihajlovic as well as England's 1990 world cup winner David platt, whose partnership with german rudi voller propulsed aston villa to the English league title in 1990. Platt's dominating performance in midfield and link-up play with Vialli and mancini was crucial in the 1991 1992 champions cup campaign, which was won agaisnt barcelona, where romald koeman equalised at the last minute with a thunderous free kick to force extra time, where sinisa mihajlovic would win the ruropean cup for doria with a free kick of his own.

Not one to sit on the sideline, AC Milan would strike back, winning the 92 and 93 scudetto in dominatung fashion, including going the 91-92 campaign undefeated. They would lose the champions Cup final against olympique de marseille in 1993. Meanwhile, a spirited torino FC side won the 1992 UEFA Cup, thanks to a great performance from enzo francescoli and teeenager christian vieri, whose partnership with gianluigi lentini is seen by many as italy's future, while Czech coach Zdenek Zeman would overachieve massively, bringing small club foggia to europe with a 6th place finish in 91-92 before winning an improbable UEFA Cup the following year, beating the likes of PSG, Atletico madrid and Juventus to win it all.

The 93-94 season was a close affair between juventus, torino, milan, sampdoria and rising stars parma, with the genoa club stealing the title from milan at the last day. Mancini, vialli, platt and mihajlovic were joined by disgruntled milan star ruud Gullit, who joined the club thanks to having italian citizenship, meaning he didn't count as a foreign player. They would also complete a league-cup double, while milan would get their 4th champions cup as a consolation prize, avenging their loss against marseille in the semi-finals, then thrash a heavily-favoured barcelona team 4-0 in the final. Meanwhile, cagliari became the surprise winners of the UEFA Cup on the back of an impressive performance by their foreign quatuor of jose herrera, luis oliveira, julio dely valdes and Masahiro Chono.

The 94-95 season would end up in a three-way struggle between parmq, juventus and torino. The bulls, led by coach claudio ranieri, gianluigi lentini in his prime, The versatile gianluca pessotto, the center back pairing of Roberto mussi and giulio falcone, goalkeeper luca marchegianni, new signings mauro milanese, jocelyn angloma and abedi ayew as well as a breakout 24-goal season by christian vieri, would win their 9th scudetto over their piedmont rivals and the gialloblu. Parma, however, would get the UEFA Cup as a consolation prize, beating napoli 2-1 in the final.

The Bosman ruling shook the football world to its core, with all foreign players now free to play wherever they wanted. Sensing that the richest clubs would just snap up all the best players, UEFA took a page out of american sports and implement a salary cap on the top 5 European leagues, so as to keep cometitive balance and prevent clubs from going bankrupt, which, following the close call with napoli before the consortium led by diego maradona and Aurelio de Laurentiis bought the club, would be very welcoming.

This forced clubs like juve, milan and inter to rebuild almost overnight, with the newfound talent spread benefitting the smaller clubs, and Fiorentina, on the back of francesco toldo's goalkeeping, angelo di livio's midfield generalship and the Swashbuckling BBC Trio composed of Manuel Rui Costa, Gabriel Batistuta and the great Roberto Baggio, would win the 1995-1996 scudetto convincingly by 12 points over a ressurgent milan carried by Ballon d'or winner george weah and complete the double by winning the coppa italia.

The 1996-1997 season would see a massive rebuild by juventus. Gone was german jupp heynckes, who joined real madrid, and in comes inexperienced coach carlo ancelotti, a big gamble by umberto agnelli. The team would get rid of many players and bring new ones, such as parma's filippo inzaghi, nicola amoruso, Ajax's champions cup winning midfielder edgar davids on a free transfer, atalanta's mark liuliano, empoli's alessandro birindelli and bordeaux's zinedine zidane.

The gamble almost payed off, as juve and parma went head-to-head in the title race, with parma peeping juve out on the last day by only two points. Claudio ranieri would win his second scudettonafter the one won with torino, and his team was chock full of stars such as antonio bennarivo, fernando couto, roberto sensini, Stefano fiore, luis figo, enrico chiesa, hernan cresponand young gianluigi buffon. The club would make it to the champions league final, where they would lose 1-0 to jupp heynckes's real madrid, the merengues fianlly breaking the spanish curse.

The 1997-1998 Serie A season is seen by many football fans as the singlr greatest season in the history of football, due to the sheer quality of play and almost every squad being full of stars. During that season, everybody could beat anybody, and Udinese , on the back of alberto zaccheroni's offensive 3-5-2 formation and the record-breaking season of german oliver bierhoff, would stun juve and the Inter side led by superstar ronaldo il phenomeno and christian vieri by taking advantage of both clubs's slip ups and the infamous No penalty game of april 26th to win the scudetto on the penultimate day thanks to alessandro calori scoring at the 94th minute. Meanwhile, napoli would win the cup winners cup, their second ever european trophy, while inter would win the UEFA Cup.

Just to show the sheer quality of the league that season, here are some of the lineups:

Juventus

Peruzzi

Birindelli iuliano montero fortunato

Tacchinardi

Conte davids

Zidane

Del piero inzaghi



Parma

Buffon

Bennarivo sensini couto sartor

Figo Crippa D. Baggio fiore

Crespo chiesa


Lazio

Roma

Negro Nesta Favalli Pancaro

Fuser Di matteo almeyda nedved

Di vaio signori


AS Roma

Cudicini

Zago aldair carboni

Cafu Di biaggio tomassi candela

Totti

Delvecchio/sergio balbo



Inter

Lehmann


Galante bergomi fresi

Zanetti simeone cauet pistone

Djorkaeff

Ronaldo vieri



Torino

Marchegianni

Angloma falcone kuffour milanese

Cois venturin

Pessotto juninho lentini

Lopez


Fiorentina

Toldo

Repka malusci padalino

Serena zanetti di livio schwarz

Rui costa

Baggio batistuta



AC Milan

Rossi

Panucci escobar desailly maldini

Boban ambrosini albertini leonardo

Weah Simone




Napoli

Taglialatella

Ferrara cannavaro ayala tarantino

Stanic pecchia boghossian jankulovski

Zola fonseca/bellucci



Udinese

Turci

Bertotto calori biari

Helveg giannicheda walem jorgensen

Locatelli

Poggi bierhoff



Sampdoria

Pagliuca

Mannini mihajlovic castellini baleri

Karembeu

Seedorf jugovic

Veron

Montella mancini



Bologna

Antognoli

Carnasciali paganini paramatti torrisi

Fontolan cristallini marocchi kolyvanov

Cruz andersson


SSC Bari

Mancini

Zambrotta sala de rosa garzya

Doll de ascentis ingesson marcolini


Ventola/Masinga kanu (on loan from inter)


Atalanta

Ferron

Mirkovic carrera herrera

Foglio carbone gallo sotil

Morfeo

Ganz caniggia/lucarelli



Perugia

Nista

Ze maria Vierchowod Materazzi Grossi

Tedesco bernardini Gattuso Rapajic

Oliveira Ravanelli


The 98-99 season would see fiorentina dominate to win their 6th scudetto, with brazilian backup striker edmundo Scoring 15 goals and baggio carrying the load offensively following gabriel batistuta's injury. Of note is the great season by perugia. With vujedin boskov coaching, gennaro gattuso leading the midfield, marco materazzi and pietro vierchowod holding the defense and the duo of hometown hero fabrizio ravanelli and japanese sensation hidetoshi nakata, the club would end in a surprising 6th place finish and into europe, with gattuso earning a move to AC Milan following his great performances.

The 99-00 serie A season would be an intense 4-way battoe between roma, lazio, juve and Napoli where,in a photo-finish, lazio would draw against bologa and juve and napoli would both lose their last day fixtures to give lazio the title by only one point!

Napoli would get a consolation prize, though, winning the UEFA Cup against arsenal on penalties.


2000s
2001: Roma (5)
2002: inter (13)
2003: chievo verona (1)
2004: milan (13)
2005: Inter (14) (Juventus won, but title revoked due to Calciopoli scandal)
2006: Roma (6) (Juventus won, but title revoked due to calciopoli)
2007: roma (7)
2008: roma (8)
2009: Genoa (7)
2010: roma (9)

AS Roma, after spending most of the 80s and 90s rebuilding, woupd finally win their 5th scudetto. With the core of walter samuel, Fabio capello loyalist christian panucci, midfielders emerson and Luigi Di Biaggio, vincent candela, cafu, vicenzo montella, marco delvecchio and francesco totti, helped by the signing of gabriel batistuta, Roma would win the scudetto eith a 3-1 victory over parma, a game famous for the crowd at stadio olimpico flooding the pitch before the game was over. Also of Not is fiorentina winning the coppa italia, their last trophy before decalrin bankruptcy and being forced to restart in serie C, as well as perugia and brescia finishing in a very good 4th and 6th place. The former , still containing the likes of materazzi, ze maria, Tedesco, dejan stefanovic and Nakata, used the money gained from UEFA Cup qualification and The Record Sale of gennaro gattuso to bolster their squad with Hidden gems like enzo maresca, Favio liverani, Brazilian Goalkeeper Dida, Fabio Grosso and davide di michele, while the latter benefitted from the surprise free agent signing of roberto baggio and pep guardiola as well as homegrown talents luca toni, Daniele Bonera and Andrea Pirlo.

The following season, Ronaldo's inter would finally win the scudetto after a long, grueling season on the last day, winning against juve, napoli collapsing against lazio and and roma drawing with surprise contenders hellas verona, who had a promising team containing the likes of martin laursen, Mattia cassani, Mauro camoranesi, adrian mutu and alberto gilardino.

Another verona miracle happened in 2002-2003. This time, it was chievo verona who would withstand the assault from lazio, juve, parma and udinese to win the scudetto, with a core of youngsters such as christiano lucarelli, andrea barzagli, nicola legrotaglie, Sergio pelissier, simone perotta, matteo Brighi and bernardo corradi and veterans like eugenio corrini and oliver bierhoff coming off the
bench.

AC Milan would strike back, though, with silvio berlusconi and Carlo ancelotti assembling a super team using all of their remaining cap space: Christian abbiati, Alessandro nesta, paolo maldini, Gianluca zambrotta, andrea pirlo, gennaro gattuso, clarence seedorf, Kaka, andrei Shevchenko and fillipo inzaghi are among the stars that composed the team, with rui costa, jon dahl thomasson, kakha kaladze and serginho all making the bench and taking pay cuts to keep the team under the cap. Thanks to maldini and Abbiati taking a pay cut the following season, they had enough cap space to sign Alberto Gilardino to complete their lineup, where they would dominate the 2004-2005 champions cup, winning the final in a tense affair against arjen robben's PSV Eindhoven before losing to eventual wnners barcelona in the 2006 semi-finals.

Unfortunately, Milan would not have the chance to go for another scudetto, as they, along with 2004-2005 and 2005 2006 champions juventus, lazio, fiorentina and reggina, Would be forcefully relegated after, you guessed it, another Match fixing scandal, known as Calciopoli, with juve's titles revoked, being given to roberto mancini's inter and luciano Spaletti's roma respectively. They never learn, don't they?

This would mark the beginning of the roman empire, where roma would pretty much win everything there is to win in europe. With the core of Gianluigi buffon, Walter samuel, Phillipe mexes, alberto aquilaini, christian chivu, Daniele de rossi, antonio cassano and francesco totti, accompanied by a supporting cast consisting of simone perotta, matteo brighi and mirko vucinic, Roma would win 3 scudetto in the next 4 years, 4 coppa italias and the champions cup in 2009, defeating Mamchester United. The one title they didn't win was in 2008-2009, and what a story that season was!

It all began when jose mourinho left west ham united right after losing the champions cup final agaisnt sven-goran eriksson's manchester united. After failing his audition for the barcelona job and spending a few months on the unemployment line and nobody giving him a call, the special had enough and accept the first offer that came his way: Genoa CFC, a club that hasn't won anything since the early 20th century. Back to his overachieving roots from his days when he won the portuguese title with boavista and the champions cup with FC Porto, Mourinho immediately worked his magic again, signing marco amelia from livorno, Thiago motta , Giuseppe Biava and javier saviola on Free Transfers and, finally, his biggest signings: Deco from Barcelona for 8 million and The returning Diego Milito for 13 Million from relegated Zaragossa. Combined with the few Good pieces that genoa already had, such as captain Marco rossi, matteo ferrari, bosko jankovic, omar milanetto and raffaele padalino along with Young prospects sokratis, Domenico Criscito, giandomenico mesto and salvatore bocchetti, mourinho has a decent team that could surprise people.

However, mourinho is the special one, and he would perform another miracle, taking advantage of slip ups by inter, roma and palermo and carrying his army of misfits to an improbable scudetto, their first since 1928!! This miracke earned mourinho all sorts of manager of the year awards, and he was back to being the best coach in the world.

But he wasn't done...far from it! The next season, he would boost his squad depth by bringing in Fiorentina's emiliano moretti for 3 million, Alberto zapater of zaragossa for 4.5 million, rodrigo palacio for 5 million and Lucio from bayern munich for 7 million. Genoa started the season strong, but eventually fizzeld out and conceded the title to Roma.

In the champions cup, however, Genoa Defied all expectations, mourinho delivering coaching masterclasses and the january free agent signing of disgruntled lazio forward goran pandev sent the club to the final 4, where they face pep guardiola's barcelona. Mourinho would attempt a bold move, playing Domenico criscito on the left wing with moretti at left back so as to contain lionel messi. The move payed off big time, with genoa winning the leg 3-1 in a stunning upset as they go to the Finals, where they faced didier drogba's olympique de marseille.

In a tense, defensive game, Diego milito proved to be the difference maker, scoring the only 2 goals of the match, including an ankle breaker on daniel van buyten, as Mourinho and genoa has done the impossible: They are Champions of europe!

This incredible coaching job earned Mourinho the job at real madrid, while genoa would never reach those same heights ever again.

2011: Palermo (1)
2012: udinese (4)
2013: juventus (13)
2014: juventus (14)
2015: juventus (15)
2016: napoli (6)
2017: roma (10)
2018: napoli (7)
2019: juventus (16)
2020: atalanta (1)

In the modern era of Serie A, apart from Gianpiero gasperini's palermo winning their only scudetto and udinese winning their 4th, it is all juventus, the turin club rebuilding and modernizing itself to become the best club in the country, reaching and losing the champions cup final to atletico madrid in 2015 and to karim benzema's lyon in 2017. Their only challengers have been maurizio sarri's napoli and Eusebio di francesco's roma, with atalanta, led by gasperini, stealing the scudetto by beating juve on the third-to-last day of the season in a huge 4-horse race against juve, inter and lazio.
 
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Alright, so i've had enough with writing long posts, so here's the champions list, straight up.



Epilogue chapter 2: The english football league
1971: leeds united (3)
1972: derby county (2)
1973: liverpool (7)
1974: leeds united (4)
1975: derby county (3)
1976: QPR (1)
1977: liverpool (8)
1978: leeds united (5)
1979: nottingham forest (1)
1980: liverpool (9)


1980s
1981: Aston villa (5)
1982: ipswich town (2)
1983: liverpool (10)
1984: Leeds united (6)
1985: everton (8)
1986: west ham united (1)
1987: everton (9)
1988: liverpool (11)
1989: arsenal (10)
1990: aston villa (6)



1990s
1991: arsenal (11)
1992: leeds united (7)
1993: norwich city (1)
1994: manchester united (8)
1995: blackburn (3)
1996: newcastle (4)
1997: manchester united (9)
1998: arsenal (12)
1999: Manchester United (10)
2000: leeds united (8)

2000s
2001: liverpool (12)
2002: Arsenal (13)
2003: Leeds united (9)
2004: arsenal (14)
2005: west ham united (2)
2006: west ham united (3)
2007: manchester united (11)
2008: leeds united (10)
2009: Liverpool (13)
2010: West ham united (4)

2010s
2011: Aston villa (7)
2012: Manchester city (3)
2013: West ham united (5)
2014: Liverpool (14)
2015: Southampton (1)
2016: leicester city (2)
2017: tottenham (4)
2018: manchester city (4)
2019: everton (8)
2020: Liverpool (15)

Chapter 3: La Liga
1961: real madrid (5)
1962: real madrid (6)
1963: real madrid (7)
1964: real madrid (8)
1965: real madrid (9)
1966: atletico madrid (5)
1967: real madrid (10)
1968: las palmas (1)
1969: real madrid (11)
1970: bilbao (6)
1971: valencia (6)
1972: valencia (7)
1973: atletico madrid (6)
1974: barcelona (8)
1975: barcelona (9)
1976: barcelona (10)
1977: Atletico Madrid (7)
1978: barcelona (11)
1979: sporting gijon (1)
1980: real sociedad (1)
1981: real sociedad (2)
1982: real sociedad (3)
1983: bilbao (7)
1984: bilbao (8)
1985: barca (12)
1986: real madrid (12)
1987: espanyol (1)
1988: real madrid (13)
1989: real madrid (14)
1990: real madrid (15)
1991: barca (13)
1992: atletico madrid (8)
1993: barca (14)
1994: deportivo (2)
1995: deportivo (3)
1996: atletico madrid (9)
1997: real madrid (16)
1998: barca (15)
1999: barca (16)
2000: zaragosa (1)
2001: real madrid (17)
2002: valencia (8)
2003: real sociedad (5)
2004: valencia (9)
2005: barca (17)
2006: barca (18)
2007: sevilla (4)
2008: villareal (1)
2009: barca (19)
2010: barca (20)
2011: barca (21)
2012: real madrid (18)
2013: barca (22)
2014: atletico madrid (10)
2015: atheltic bilbao (9)
2016: atletico madrid (11)
2017: real madrid (19)
2018: atletico madrid (12)
2019: Getafe (1)
2020: Real Sociedad (6)

Chapter 4: French Ligue 1
1961: RC Paris (3)
1962: nancy (1)
1963: sedan (1)
1964: saint-etienne (2)
1965: valenciennes (1)
1966: FC Nantes (1)
1967: saint-etienne (3)
1968: saint-etienne (4)
1969: bordeaux (2)
1970: saint-etienne (5)
1971: marseille (7)
1972: marseille (8)
1973: FC Nantes (2)
1974: saint-etienne (6)
1975: saint-etienne (7)
1976: OGC Nice (2)
1977: FC Nantes (3)
1978: marseille (9)
1979: strasbourg (1)
1980: Sochaux (2)
1981: FC Nantes (4)
1982: saint-etienne (8)
1983: FC Nantes (5)
1984: bordeaux (3)
1985: Bordeaux (4)
1986: PSG (1)
1987: Toulouse (2)
1988: Montpellier (1)
1989: marseille (10)
1990: marseille (11)
1991: marseille (12)
1992: marseille (13)
1993: marseille (14)
1994: PSG (2)
1995: FC Nantes (6)
1996: AJ Auxerre (1)
1997: PSG (3)
1998: RC Lens (2)
1999: Marseille (15)
2000: PSG (4)
2001: FC Nantes (7)
2002: PSG (5)
2003: PSG (6)
2004: PSG (7)
2005: lyon (1)
2006: lyon (2)
2007: lyon (3)
2008: Bordeaux (5)
2009: marseille (16)
2010: marseille (17)
2011: lille (6)
2012: montpellier (2)
2013: PSG (8)
2014: PSG (9)
2015: Marseille (18)
2016: Lyon (4)
2017: Saint-etienne (9)
2018: PSG (9)
2019: Lille (7)
2020: stade rennais (1)

Chapter 5: The german football championship
BUNDESLIGA

1903: VFB Leipzig (1)
1905: union berlin (1)
1906: 1. FC Pforzheim (1)
1907: Freiburger FC (1)
1908: viktoria berlin (1)
1909: karlsruher SV (1)
1910: Holstein kiel (1)
1911: viktoria berlin (2)
1912: holstein kiel (2)
1913: VFB Leipzig (2)
1914: VFB Leipzig (3)
1920: Nurenberg (1)
1921: nurenberg (2)
1922: hamburg (1)
1923: hamburg (2)
1924: nurenberg (3)
1925: FSV Frankfurt (1)
1926: SPVGG feurth (1)
1927: nurenberg (4)
1928: hamburg (3)
1929: hertha berlin (1)
1930: hertha berlin (2)
1931: 1860 Munich (1)
1932: bayern muncih (1)
1933: fortuna dusseldorf (1)
1934: Schalke (1)
1935: schalke (2)
1936: Fortuna dusseldorf (2)
1937: schalke (3)
1938: hannover (1)
1939: schalke (4)
1940: schalke (5)
1941: schalke (6)
1942: schalke (7)
1943: dresdner SC (1)
1944: dresdner FV (2)
1945: Schalke (8)
1946: kaiserslautern (1)
1947: Schalke (9)
1948: kaiserslautern (2)
1949: borussia dortmund (1)
1950: VFB Stuttgart (1)
1951: kaiserslautern (3)
1952: VFB Stuttgart (2)
1953: kaiserslautern (4)
1954: hannover (2)
1955: rot-weiss essen (1)
1956: dortmund (2)
1957: dortmund (3)
1958: schalke (10)
1959: eintracht frankfurt (1)
1960: FC koln (1)
1961: nurenberg (5)
1962: FC Koln (2)
1963: dortmund (4)
1964: fc koln (3)
1965: werder bremen (1)
1966: 1860 Munich (2)
1967: braunschweig (1)
1968: nurenberg (6)
1969: bayern (2)
1970: Hertha berlin (3)
1971: BMG (1)
1972: schalke (11)
1973: bayern (3)
1974: bayern (4)
1975: BMG (2)
1976: BMG (3)
1977: Frankfurt (2)
1978: Hamburg (4)
1979: hamburg (5)
1980: hamburg (6)
1981: hamburg (7)
1982: hamburg (8)
1983: werder bremen (2)
1984: VFB Stuttgart (3)
1985: bayern (5)
1986: Werder bremen (3)
1987: bayern (6)
1988: werder bremen (4)
1989: fc koln (4)
1990: Bayern (7)
1991: kaiserslautern (5)
1992: eintracht frankfurt (3)
1993: werder bremen (5)
1994: bayern (8)
1995: SC Freiburg (1)
1996: Borussia dortmund (4)
1997: leverkusen (1)
1998: kaiserslautern (6)
1999: bayern (9)
2000: leverkusen (2)
2001: schalke (12)
2002: leverkusen (3)
2003: dortmund (5)
2004: werder bremen (6)
2005: werder bremen (7)
2006: werder bremen (8)
2007: stuttgart (4)
2008: hamburg (9)
2009: wolfsburg (1)
2010: schalke (13)
2011: dortmund (6)
2012: dortmund (7)
2013: bayern (10)
2014: bayern (11)
2015: Wolfsburg (2)
2016: leverkusen (4)
2017: hoffenheim (1)
2018: Schalke (14)
2019: Schalke (15)
2020: BMG (4)

Chapter 6: European competitions
Champions Cup

CHAMPIONS LEAGUE

1956: barca (1)
1957: barca (2)
1958: real madrid (1)
1959: Atletico madrid (1)
1960: barca (3)
1961: benfica (1)
1962: benfica (2)
1963: benfica (3)
1964: inter (1)
1965: inter (2)
1966: real madrid (2)
1967: celtic (1)
1968: manchester united (1)
1969: milan (1)
1970: benfica (4)
1971: ajax (1)
1972: ajax (2)
1973: Ajax (3)
1974: bayern (1)
1975: leeds united (1)
1976: leeds united (2)
1977: BMG (1)
1978: liverpool (1)
1979: Hamburg (1)
1980: nottingham forrest (1)
1981: Liverpool (2)
1982: aston villa (1)
1983: hamburg (2)
1984: roma (1)
1985: roma (2)
1986: Everton (1)
1987: Steaua bucharesti (1)
1988: PSV Eindhoven (1)
1989: Milan (2)
1990: milan (3)
1991: red star Belgrade (1)
1992: sampdoria (1)
1993: marseille (1)
1994: milan (4)
1995: IFK Gotenberg (1)
1996: ajax (4)
1997: Fiorentina (1)
1998: Real Madrid (3)
1999: dynamo kiev (1)
2000: manchester united (2)
2001: Bayer leverkusen (1)
2002: real madrid (4)
2003: valencia (1)
2004: FC porto (1)
2005: AC Milan (5)
2006: Barca (4)
2007: West Ham (1)
2008: Manchester united (3)
2009: Roma (3)
2010: Genoa (1)
2011: Marseille (2)
2012: barca (5)
2013: dortmund (1)
2014: Bayern (2)
2015: Atletico madrid (2)
2016: atletico madrid (3)
2017: Lyon (1)
2018: real madrid (5)
2019: ajax (5)
2020: Schalke (1)


UEFA CUP
1959: barca (1)
1960: Roma (1)
1961: valencia (1)
1962: dinamo zagreb (1)
1963: valencia (2)
1964: real zaragosa (1)
1965: Juventus (1)
1966: Real Zaragosa (2)
1967: leeds united (1)
1968: leeds united (2)
1969: newcastle united (1)
1970: arsenal (1)
1971: leeds united (3)
1972: wolves (1)
1973: liverpool (1)
1974: Feyenoord (1)
1975: BMG (1)
1976: Club Brugge (1)
1977: juventus (2)
1978: PSV (1)
1979: manchester city (1)
1980: eintracht frankfurt (1)
1981: Ipswich town (1)
1982: aberdeen (1)
1983: anderlecht (1)
1984: Tottenham hotspurs (1)
1985: real madrid (1)
1986: arsenal (2)
1987: dundee united (1)
1988: Bayer leverkusen (1)
1989: Napoli (1)
1990: fiorentina (1)
1991: Inter (1)
1992: torino (1)
1993: Foggia (1)
1994: Cagliari (1)
1995: parma (1)
1996: Bordeaux (1)
1997: schalke (1)
1998: Inter (2)
1999: Bologna (1)
2000: Napoli (2)
2001: alaves (1)
2002: feyenoord (2)
2003: FC Porto (1)
2004: marseille (1)
2005: Liverpool (2)
2006: marseille (2)
2007: Sevilla (1)
2008: Rangers (1)
2009: werder bremen (1)
2010: fulham (1)
2011: Villareal (1)
2012: Athletic bilbao (1)
2013: athletic bilbao (2)
2014: lyon(1)
2015: Dnipro (1)
2016: sevilla (2)
2017: celta vigo (1)
2018: marseille (3)
2019: Stade Rennais (1)
2020: Sevilla (3)

Any questions about players, managers, transfers and other trivia, Ask and I shall answer!
 
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A couple of questions come to mind straight away:

1) What happened to Arsene Wenger? I notice that Arsenal seem to have the same success in the 1990s onwards so does he move there too?
2) Same with Johan Cruyff? Barca seem to be more successful in the 1970s but then less so in the 1980s/90s.
3) By 2020, how are the non-European leagues doing? Are they as strong in terms of money?

Will you be doing lists for international competitions and for rugby?

(Sorry for all the questions)
 
Hello, guys!

It is with great disappointement that i hereby announce the end of this TL.

The main reason why i ended this TL is, quite simply, i went way over my head. All i wanted to talk about was sports, but then, it eventually became a mess, with multiple PODs abound combined with a lack of planning and my general ignorance on the world's history resulted in implausible details and a convoluted story.

In short, i lack experience. So therefore, i plan on writing shorter TLs to gain experience and learn how to plan so i can do a remake of this TL in the future.

EDIT: God, i suck at grammar...

I enjoyed the TL, football/soccer is my favorite sport and I liked the Rugby here to, albeit my understanding of the sport is still limited. I liked the update style.
I think that rather than changing the world so much as it ended up happening, perhaps just keeping the early PODs such as Rugby professionalizing much earlier and American Football being banned by Theodore Roosevelt along with the World Cups starting earlier while leaving world history as it was in OTL is the thing you need. This allows you to focus more on the sports rather than distressing into other matters.

Glad Benfica won four Champions League Titles...
 
A couple of questions come to mind straight away:

1) What happened to Arsene Wenger? I notice that Arsenal seem to have the same success in the 1990s onwards so does he move there too?
2) Same with Johan Cruyff? Barca seem to be more successful in the 1970s but then less so in the 1980s/90s.
3) By 2020, how are the non-European leagues doing? Are they as strong in terms of money?

Will you be doing lists for international competitions and for rugby?

(Sorry for all the questions)

1) Arsene Wenger

Good old Arsene never had the chance of managing Arsenal, As he Became Manager of Paris Saint-germain in 1987, as Monaco is an italian Territory ITTL. And, Since PSG was (and still is ITTL) owned by the man behind french TV Giants Canal +, they managed to have arsene stay in the capital. With monaco being an italian territory, this meant that players like Lilian Thuram, Claude Puel, Theirry Henry, David Trezeguet, Emmanuel Adebayor, Yaya Toure, Jeremy menez and, later, Kylian Mbappe all comes from the PSG Youth setups due to them either growing up in paris, while players scouted by wenger back at monaco IOTL, such as Emmanuel Petit, youri djorkaeff, george weah, gilles grimandi and ludovic giuly all end up at PSG ITTL. This means that not only is wenger the second longest tenured coach in football history (behind auxerre's guy roux), but, with the french league being much stronger ITTL due to the salary caps, french clubs are able to keep most of their best players at home, and wenger becomes much more successful as a result. Today, he is known as the man who built paris into a football city. Still can't win a european trophy, Though! :openedeyewink:

2) Johann Cruyff

Cruyff's player career follows a similar path as OTL, except he is way more motivated at barcelona, which leads to the blaugrana winning more ligas in the 1970s, yet he still leaves for america in 1978 to relac and regain his mojo. Then, in 1981, he signs for newly promoted leicester city, wjere he played trequartista behind wonderkid gary lineker before retiring woth feyenoord back in his homeland.

Cruyff's managerial career is similar to OTL: starts at ajax, then leaves for barca, forming the dream team, though ITTL, he never wins a european trophy, which is the only blemish in his otherwise highly influential manager career. After leaving barcelona in 1996, he takes the vacant Job at Arsenal, where he signed patrick viera (Who replaced clarence seedorf at Ajax ITTL. IOTL, Both ajax and barca were interested in him while cruyff was coach, so it'd make sense that cruyff would still bring viera to the gunners), PSV Eindhoven's Phillip Cocu and Ajax's Marc Overmars and Patrick kluivert and, of course, Dennis Bergkamp and freddie Ljungberg. Basically, instead of being pre-dominantly french, arsenal becomes pre-dominantly dutch, with cruyff's total football philosophy becoming a hallmark of the gunners. Plus, since cruyff is really into youth development, the club never sells matthew upson, ashley cole, jermaine pennant, and aaron ramsey, While Kluivert takes thierry henry's place and never goes through his mid-00s slump due to working with cruyff, and jack wilshere actually fulfills his potential. Oh, and vieira and van persie never gets sold. 'Nuff said. Today, former gunner Phillip Cocu is arsenal coach after a successful spell at PSV.

3) Non-European leagues

With the old ASL still going strong and foitball being banned ITTL, america has the strongest soccer league in the americas, with both domestic and mexican/south american talent often playing there, with some south americans using the league as a way to go to europe. Canada is more low-key, but it attracts a decent level of players, while south america remains the same. The best league in asia is, by far, the Japanese league, which started in the early 80s following japan bring more successful way ahead of schedule (thanks, Dice...), with the top players in asia plying their trade there, along with many brazilians, who famously playedd in the league before getting signed by european clubs. Such was the case with future legends such as careca, eder, branco, valdo, walter casagrande, hulk, Paulinho and Gabriel Barbosa.

As for a list of international competitions, i'll do it once i finish my simulatioms. As for rugby, i think i'll give it its own separate TL instead.
 
I enjoyed the TL, football/soccer is my favorite sport and I liked the Rugby here to, albeit my understanding of the sport is still limited. I liked the update style.
I think that rather than changing the world so much as it ended up happening, perhaps just keeping the early PODs such as Rugby professionalizing much earlier and American Football being banned by Theodore Roosevelt along with the World Cups starting earlier while leaving world history as it was in OTL is the thing you need. This allows you to focus more on the sports rather than distressing into other matters.

Glad Benfica won four Champions League Titles...

Yeah, i guess i should've just stuck to sports...the thing is, i wanted soviet and czech athletes to play in the NHL and NBA as well as the top european leagues earlier, and @Neoteros wanted italy to avoid fascism and become good at rugby, so that why we made italy neutral and the central powers win in world war 1.

So, anymore questions?
 
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How does the Scottish league look? Hopefully one that's not quite dominated by the Old Firm. Hope my Raith Rovers did ok here...
 
Other than that, you have any other questions?

Mainly about the Welsh champions if we get a Welsh league earlier here. However I think present the final tally of World Cup/various international tournaments winners up to the present day to see all in all who has done the best out from TTL.
 
Mainly about the Welsh champions if we get a Welsh league earlier here. However I think present the final tally of World Cup/various international tournaments winners up to the present day to see all in all who has done the best out from TTL.
I'll send the list World Cup/Euros champions once i'm done simulating them.

But first, here you go:

SCOTTISH FOOTBALL LEAGUE


1891: Dumbarton (1)
1892: hearts (1)
1893: celtic (1)
1894: st. Bernard's (1)
1895: hearts (2)
1896: celtic (2)
1897: hibs (1)
1898: celtic (3)
1899: rangers (1)
1900: hibs (2)
1901: rangers (2)
1902: hearts (3)
1903: Dundee FC (1)
1904: third lanark (1)
1905: rangers (3)
1906: hearts (4)
1907: Dundee FC (2)
1908: falkirk (1)
1909: Clyde (1)
1910: falkirk (2)
1911: aberdeen (1)
1912: rangers (4)
1913: rangers (5)
1914: celtic (4)
1915: hearts (5)
1916: celtic (5)
1917: celtic (6)
1918: rangers (6)
1919: celtic (7)
1920: motherwell (1)
1921: rangers (7)
1922: raith rovers (1)
1923: airdrieonians (1)
1924: airdrieonians (2)
1925: airdrieonians (3)
1926: Hearts (6)
1927: motherwell (2)
1928: motherwell (3)
1929: rangers (8)
1930: aberdeen (2)
1931: motherwell (4)
1932: motherwell (5)
1933: motherwell (6)
1934: motherwell (7)
1935: hearts (7)
1936: aberdeen (3)
1937: Aberdeen (4)
1938: hearts (8)
1939: rangers (9)
1940: Aberdeen (5)
1941: patrick thistle (1)
1942: patrick thistle (2)
1943: falkirk (3)
1944: Patrick thistle (3)
1945: raith rovers (2)
1946: patrick thistle (4)
1947: hibs (3)
1948: hibs (4)
1949: dundee FC (3)
1950: hibs (5)
1951: hibs (6)
1952: hibs (7)
1953: east fife (1)
1954: hearts (9)
1955: aberdeen (6)
1956: aberdeen (7)
1957: hearts (10)
1958: hearts (11)
1959: motherwell (8)
1960: kilmarnock (1)
1961: kilmarnock (2)
1962: Dundee FC (4)
1963: rangers (10)
1964: rangers (11)
1965: dumferline athletic (1)
1966: celtic (8)
1967: celtic (9)
1968: celtic (10)
1969: celtic (11)
1970: celtic (12)
1971: aberdeen (8)
1972: aberdeen (9)
1973: rangers (12)
1974: hibs (8)
1975: rangers (13)
1976: rangers (14)
1977: celtic (13)
1978: aberdeen (10)
1979: dundee united (1)
1980: st. Mirrens (1)
1981: celtic (14)
1982: aberdeen (11)
1983: dundee united (2)
1984: aberdeen (12)
1985: aberdeen (13)
1986: hearts (12)
1987: dundee united (3)
1988: hearts (13)
1989: aberdeen (14)
1990: rangers (15)
1991: aberdeen (15)
1992: Hearts (14)
1993: rangers (16)
1994: motherwell (9)
1995: Dundee United (4)
1996: dundee united (5)
1997: Dundee FC (5)
1998: celtic (15)
1999: st. Johnstone (1)
2000: hearts (15)
2001: kilmarnock (3)
2002: livingston (1)
2003: celtic (16)
2004: dumferline (2)
2005: hibs (9)
2006: hearts (16)
2007: Dundee United (6)
2008: Dundee united (7)
2009: dundee united (8)
2010: dundee united (9)
2011: rangers (17)
2012: motherwell (10)
2013: st. Johnstone (2)
2014: celtic (17)
2015: inverness (1)
2016: aberdeen (16)
2017: celtic (18)
2018: aberdeen (17)
2019: kilmarnock (4)
2020: motherwell (11)
 
I'll send the list World Cup/Euros champions once i'm done simulating them.

But first, here you go:

SCOTTISH FOOTBALL LEAGUE


1891: Dumbarton (1)
1892: hearts (1)
1893: celtic (1)
1894: st. Bernard's (1)
1895: hearts (2)
1896: celtic (2)
1897: hibs (1)
1898: celtic (3)
1899: rangers (1)
1900: hibs (2)
1901: rangers (2)
1902: hearts (3)
1903: Dundee FC (1)
1904: third lanark (1)
1905: rangers (3)
1906: hearts (4)
1907: Dundee FC (2)
1908: falkirk (1)
1909: Clyde (1)
1910: falkirk (2)
1911: aberdeen (1)
1912: rangers (4)
1913: rangers (5)
1914: celtic (4)
1915: hearts (5)
1916: celtic (5)
1917: celtic (6)
1918: rangers (6)
1919: celtic (7)
1920: motherwell (1)
1921: rangers (7)
1922: raith rovers (1)
1923: airdrieonians (1)
1924: airdrieonians (2)
1925: airdrieonians (3)
1926: Hearts (6)
1927: motherwell (2)
1928: motherwell (3)
1929: rangers (8)
1930: aberdeen (2)
1931: motherwell (4)
1932: motherwell (5)
1933: motherwell (6)
1934: motherwell (7)
1935: hearts (7)
1936: aberdeen (3)
1937: Aberdeen (4)
1938: hearts (8)
1939: rangers (9)
1940: Aberdeen (5)
1941: patrick thistle (1)
1942: patrick thistle (2)
1943: falkirk (3)
1944: Patrick thistle (3)
1945: raith rovers (2)
1946: patrick thistle (4)
1947: hibs (3)
1948: hibs (4)
1949: dundee FC (3)
1950: hibs (5)
1951: hibs (6)
1952: hibs (7)
1953: east fife (1)
1954: hearts (9)
1955: aberdeen (6)
1956: aberdeen (7)
1957: hearts (10)
1958: hearts (11)
1959: motherwell (8)
1960: kilmarnock (1)
1961: kilmarnock (2)
1962: Dundee FC (4)
1963: rangers (10)
1964: rangers (11)
1965: dumferline athletic (1)
1966: celtic (8)
1967: celtic (9)
1968: celtic (10)
1969: celtic (11)
1970: celtic (12)
1971: aberdeen (8)
1972: aberdeen (9)
1973: rangers (12)
1974: hibs (8)
1975: rangers (13)
1976: rangers (14)
1977: celtic (13)
1978: aberdeen (10)
1979: dundee united (1)
1980: st. Mirrens (1)
1981: celtic (14)
1982: aberdeen (11)
1983: dundee united (2)
1984: aberdeen (12)
1985: aberdeen (13)
1986: hearts (12)
1987: dundee united (3)
1988: hearts (13)
1989: aberdeen (14)
1990: rangers (15)
1991: aberdeen (15)
1992: Hearts (14)
1993: rangers (16)
1994: motherwell (9)
1995: Dundee United (4)
1996: dundee united (5)
1997: Dundee FC (5)
1998: celtic (15)
1999: st. Johnstone (1)
2000: hearts (15)
2001: kilmarnock (3)
2002: livingston (1)
2003: celtic (16)
2004: dumferline (2)
2005: hibs (9)
2006: hearts (16)
2007: Dundee United (6)
2008: Dundee united (7)
2009: dundee united (8)
2010: dundee united (9)
2011: rangers (17)
2012: motherwell (10)
2013: st. Johnstone (2)
2014: celtic (17)
2015: inverness (1)
2016: aberdeen (16)
2017: celtic (18)
2018: aberdeen (17)
2019: kilmarnock (4)
2020: motherwell (11)
Nothing better than seeing the Old Firm not always getting their way and seeing other teams get a chance. And Raith having two league titles to their honours...even I didn't think of that for my TL! Pity about that ugly mob on the wrong side of Fife getting league success but hey ho, win some you lose some.
 
Nothing better than seeing the Old Firm not always getting their way and seeing other teams get a chance. And Raith having two league titles to their honours...even I didn't think of that for my TL! Pity about that ugly mob on the wrong side of Fife getting league success but hey ho, win some you lose some.
I'm not really familiar with scotland, so what's wrong with east fife? Are they like the millwall of scotland?
 
I'm not really familiar with scotland, so what's wrong with east fife? Are they like the millwall of scotland?
I was referring to Dunfermline, though in recent years they have been thought of as the 'big' club in Fife, trophy wise this honour goes to East Fife who have four honours to their name and more than the other two combined. I have no ill feelings for East Fife, however Dunfermline are looked on by most Raith fans as a bit of a middle class team in a place in Fife that has got off better economic and social wise compared to Kirkcaldy, the town in which Raith is based in, and thus many folk from Kirkcaldy feel that they are often overlooked in favour of Dunfermline and this gets thrown into the rivalry. Dunfermline fans often called as Townies by the Raith support. Leven, the town East Fife are based, have probably had it worse in recent years so you can see a pattern forming here.

From an outside perspective however, one could argue that both towns have got it pretty bad (as too as most places in Fife except for St Andrews) and that it seems rather laughable though given how Dunfermline does seem to get a lot more attention with investment coming it's way and Kirkcaldy gets left behind, you can see how that might rub people off the wrong way.

It is rather interesting when you look into it.
 
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