Production Notes
DWAS Interview - Casting Doctor Who's Greatest Adventure
DWAS: Michael York became the new Doctor Who?
Subotsky: Yes.
DWAS: I remember that when Tom Baker stepped down, and announced he was retiring from the role, both the television series and the upcoming movie, there was quite a bit of a stir. There was a lot of buzz over who was going to be the next Doctor, perhaps playing in both, to unite the two franchises.
Subotsky: It wasn't all that voluntary on Baker's part.
DWAS: Oh?
Subotsky: That's all I've got to say on the matter.
DWAS: So you dropped him.
Subotsky: I didn't drop him. We had financing, financial backers, and let's just say that some of them were not particularly impressed with what was essentially a television actor. They wanted someone who could actually perform on the big screen. Someone who could act. Someone recognizable as a draw. Tom wasn't well known. That just wasn't Tom. There wasn't really a choice.
DWAS: I imagine that was difficult for Mr. Baker.
Subotsky: You'd have to discuss that with him. We worked it out. He certainly made out well. Ultimately, he was paid not to act, which I suppose describes his career.
DWAS: Turning to other matters. Was it difficult finding the next Doctor?
Subotsky: I would say the better term was urgent.
DWAS: I hear that Peter Davison was considered.
Subotsky: I don't think so.
DWAS: There was some talk of that. It could have worked out very well - Davison was available during your shooting schedule, he wouldn't have taken on the role of the television Doctor after.
Subotsky: I don't know where that story comes from. John Nathan-Turner probably. But no. Davison was never considered. He had the same issue as Tom, a television actor that no one across the ocean had ever heard of.
DWAS: Well, that's what we heard.
Subotsky: Well, that's wrong.
DWAS: Sorry.
Subotsky: No matter. Please continue.
DWAS: You said it was urgent to find the next Doctor. Can you tell us about the difficulties
Subotsky: Well, we were working to schedules. We had Shepperton studios booked. The distributors had their deadlines. We were looking at a release between four and two months before the Star Wars movie.
DWAS: Why the timing?
Subotsky: Well, after the Star Wars movie comes out, the thinking was that it would consume all the oxygen in the room, if you get my drift. People anticipating Star Wars, they would be excited to see our movie, it would be a warm up. Once Star Wars is in the theatre, no one is going to be seeing anything else. So that was our window to make money. That's what our distributors wanted. So we had to work backwards, the scoring, the post production, the effects, then finally the principal photography. We knew when that had to be completed, so we knew how many days we should set aside for it. Which meant that we knew the deadlines for the sets and costumes and everything. And that meant that we knew when the cast had to be signed.
DWAS: Not much time.
Subotsky: That often describes the film industry. Long periods of development without urgency, and then one day, everything has to happen at once.
DWAS: So what qualities attracted you in Michael York.
Subotsky: I'm sorry, I think you're looking at it in the wrong way. It wasn't a beauty contest. We weren't looking for someone who screamed "Doctor Who." We needed someone in the role, a warm body. Our American partners wanted someone that was somewhat recognizable to American audiences. They actually provided us with a list of candidates. A number of American actors actually. (pauses) Gods, can you imagine the complaints if we'd picked an American actor? (under breath) We'd never hear the end of it. (pauses) We had a number of English actors but most of them didn't make the grade.
DWAS: Can you give us some names? Of actors that were considered?
Subotsky: Oliver Reed. Malcolm McDowell. Cliff Richards, Ian Mcshane. A number of Americans. I remember David Hasselhoff.
DWAS: So there could have been an American Doctor Who?
Subotsky: Very nearly. If it if had shaken out the right way. We wouldn't have turned one down.
DWAS: What was the process like?
Subotsky: Wanting to hear how sausage is made, eh? We had lists of names, or a list. I'd suggest. Rank would suggest. Constantin would suggest. American distributors would suggest. It would pass back and forth, just names. And we'd take them off - not famous enough, too famous, Americans had to know them, too troublesome. At one point, we were looking at Klaus Kinski... and that was shut down quite rapidly. But names would come up that everyone was fine with. You follow?
DWAS: Yes.
Subotsky: We never really had a formal list, we sort of did and didn't. But for the handful of people we thought were acceptable, we'd get in touch with their agents or managers, and here was the big question - were they available for when we needed? Not just principal photography, we needed windows in front of and after that, post production, MOS...
DWAS: MOS?
Subotsky: MOS - non synched sound, dialogue recorded after for redubbing or voice over. We needed fittings. There were read throughs. We needed to reserve a lot of time. So the first step is whether they were available for the time frame - if they were committed somewhere else, a television show, another movie, stage, whatever, they were off the list.
DWAS: Even if they were interested?
Subotsky: Many were, at least on a preliminary basis. We even had inquiries as to how flexible our schedules were.
DWAS: Who?
Subotsky: I don't recall. The point is, we weren't flexible, and no use pretending.
DWAS: So it was availability?
Subotsky: That was the first step. If they were, then the question was were they available to come over - we're shooting in England. Some weren't able or willing to travel. Off the list. After that: Money. We had a budget, there was money set aside for the role. We'd inquire, if they asked for too much, off the list.
DWAS: It seems quite ruthless.
Subotsky: There were deadlines. We weren't there to waste time.
DWAS: So it was whoever was left?
Subotsky: We whittled it down to three or four. Our process was just to winnow it down. I wouldn't say that all we wanted was a warm body, but really, this wasn't a part written for a particular person. The selling point for audiences was that this was going to be an exciting space adventure, it was an action story, with lots of special effects. Let's say no one was going to be sitting in the theatre looking for a nuanced performance or a marvelous characterization. There was a man shaped hole in the story, we needed someone to fill the hole - there were a number of actors that could fill the slot, and it really didn't matter.
DWAS: Ruthless.
Subotsky: Unquestionably. It came down to Malcolm McDowell and Michael York. Michael York was cheaper.
DWAS: That's all? He was cheaper.
Subotsky: That's about it.
DWAS: Did his record, his movies, have any significance?
Subotsky: I knew him from the Three Musketeers. It seemed from that, that he could handle the role. I remember I'd seen him in Cabaret. I didn't like that.
DWAS: He was in Logan's Run.
Subotsky: If I'd seen that, we might not have hired him. I thought it was wretched.
DWAS: Once you had him, did you revise the script at all to fit the actor?
Subotsky: No. The script was the script. I'm sure that York had his suggestions and contributions. Everyone did. Everyone has something to say about your script, everyone has a little change, some improvement they want to make, they have notes, and so forth. . At some point, you have to put your foot down.
DWAS: I see.
Subotsky: He did ad lib a lot, I noticed. No end of problems. But he and Cushing, all the actors did it.
DWAS: How did he do?
Subotsky: Well enough.
DWAS: Do you think he brought a lot to the role. Did he inhabit the Doctor? Was he Doctorish?
Subotsky: The script called for a person of some characteristics, youth, athleticism, sex appeal to go places land do things. That was all that was needed. He did that. If you want to talk about his performance, ask him.
DWAS: I see. So I assume it was the same process for Leslie Ann Down, the female co-star?
Subotsky: More or less. She was the last addition to the cast. The American money chose her. She was popular in the America, flavour of the month. Quite expensive actually. I would have gone with someone cheaper.
DWAS: You had worked with her before though?
Subotsky: She had a small role in one of Amicus films, From Beyond the Grave, I believe, in 1974. That wasn't really a factor. A bigger one was her role in Upstairs Downstairs, she did that for several years and was quite well known.
DWAS: So she was popular on both sides of the Ocean.
Subotsky: I'm not sure how well known she was in Europe. She hadn't done any work there. Of course, if you're in American movies, you're everywhere. But Constantin had their own reasons.
DWAS: Which were?
Subotsky: Constantin was a European distributor, European attitudes towards sex or nudity were.... at odds with America. Ms Down had done a nude pictorial in one of the Men's magazines, I remember it was around the time we hired her. So that was actually a consideration, or so I heard.
DWAS: That she'd done nudes?
Subotsky: You should remember the situation was fluid. If Ms Down was ... flexible.... in certain matters, that might allow more latitude. You have to remember, a lot of these sorts of movies employed a certain amount of cheesecake. I was always against that sort of cheap exploitation myself. It has no place in family movies, I've always believed. You have to respect your actors, and you need to respect your audience.
****
DWAS: Michael York became the new Doctor Who?
Subotsky: Yes.
DWAS: I remember that when Tom Baker stepped down, and announced he was retiring from the role, both the television series and the upcoming movie, there was quite a bit of a stir. There was a lot of buzz over who was going to be the next Doctor, perhaps playing in both, to unite the two franchises.
Subotsky: It wasn't all that voluntary on Baker's part.
DWAS: Oh?
Subotsky: That's all I've got to say on the matter.
DWAS: So you dropped him.
Subotsky: I didn't drop him. We had financing, financial backers, and let's just say that some of them were not particularly impressed with what was essentially a television actor. They wanted someone who could actually perform on the big screen. Someone who could act. Someone recognizable as a draw. Tom wasn't well known. That just wasn't Tom. There wasn't really a choice.
DWAS: I imagine that was difficult for Mr. Baker.
Subotsky: You'd have to discuss that with him. We worked it out. He certainly made out well. Ultimately, he was paid not to act, which I suppose describes his career.
DWAS: Turning to other matters. Was it difficult finding the next Doctor?
Subotsky: I would say the better term was urgent.
DWAS: I hear that Peter Davison was considered.
Subotsky: I don't think so.
DWAS: There was some talk of that. It could have worked out very well - Davison was available during your shooting schedule, he wouldn't have taken on the role of the television Doctor after.
Subotsky: I don't know where that story comes from. John Nathan-Turner probably. But no. Davison was never considered. He had the same issue as Tom, a television actor that no one across the ocean had ever heard of.
DWAS: Well, that's what we heard.
Subotsky: Well, that's wrong.
DWAS: Sorry.
Subotsky: No matter. Please continue.
DWAS: You said it was urgent to find the next Doctor. Can you tell us about the difficulties
Subotsky: Well, we were working to schedules. We had Shepperton studios booked. The distributors had their deadlines. We were looking at a release between four and two months before the Star Wars movie.
DWAS: Why the timing?
Subotsky: Well, after the Star Wars movie comes out, the thinking was that it would consume all the oxygen in the room, if you get my drift. People anticipating Star Wars, they would be excited to see our movie, it would be a warm up. Once Star Wars is in the theatre, no one is going to be seeing anything else. So that was our window to make money. That's what our distributors wanted. So we had to work backwards, the scoring, the post production, the effects, then finally the principal photography. We knew when that had to be completed, so we knew how many days we should set aside for it. Which meant that we knew the deadlines for the sets and costumes and everything. And that meant that we knew when the cast had to be signed.
DWAS: Not much time.
Subotsky: That often describes the film industry. Long periods of development without urgency, and then one day, everything has to happen at once.
DWAS: So what qualities attracted you in Michael York.
Subotsky: I'm sorry, I think you're looking at it in the wrong way. It wasn't a beauty contest. We weren't looking for someone who screamed "Doctor Who." We needed someone in the role, a warm body. Our American partners wanted someone that was somewhat recognizable to American audiences. They actually provided us with a list of candidates. A number of American actors actually. (pauses) Gods, can you imagine the complaints if we'd picked an American actor? (under breath) We'd never hear the end of it. (pauses) We had a number of English actors but most of them didn't make the grade.
DWAS: Can you give us some names? Of actors that were considered?
Subotsky: Oliver Reed. Malcolm McDowell. Cliff Richards, Ian Mcshane. A number of Americans. I remember David Hasselhoff.
DWAS: So there could have been an American Doctor Who?
Subotsky: Very nearly. If it if had shaken out the right way. We wouldn't have turned one down.
DWAS: What was the process like?
Subotsky: Wanting to hear how sausage is made, eh? We had lists of names, or a list. I'd suggest. Rank would suggest. Constantin would suggest. American distributors would suggest. It would pass back and forth, just names. And we'd take them off - not famous enough, too famous, Americans had to know them, too troublesome. At one point, we were looking at Klaus Kinski... and that was shut down quite rapidly. But names would come up that everyone was fine with. You follow?
DWAS: Yes.
Subotsky: We never really had a formal list, we sort of did and didn't. But for the handful of people we thought were acceptable, we'd get in touch with their agents or managers, and here was the big question - were they available for when we needed? Not just principal photography, we needed windows in front of and after that, post production, MOS...
DWAS: MOS?
Subotsky: MOS - non synched sound, dialogue recorded after for redubbing or voice over. We needed fittings. There were read throughs. We needed to reserve a lot of time. So the first step is whether they were available for the time frame - if they were committed somewhere else, a television show, another movie, stage, whatever, they were off the list.
DWAS: Even if they were interested?
Subotsky: Many were, at least on a preliminary basis. We even had inquiries as to how flexible our schedules were.
DWAS: Who?
Subotsky: I don't recall. The point is, we weren't flexible, and no use pretending.
DWAS: So it was availability?
Subotsky: That was the first step. If they were, then the question was were they available to come over - we're shooting in England. Some weren't able or willing to travel. Off the list. After that: Money. We had a budget, there was money set aside for the role. We'd inquire, if they asked for too much, off the list.
DWAS: It seems quite ruthless.
Subotsky: There were deadlines. We weren't there to waste time.
DWAS: So it was whoever was left?
Subotsky: We whittled it down to three or four. Our process was just to winnow it down. I wouldn't say that all we wanted was a warm body, but really, this wasn't a part written for a particular person. The selling point for audiences was that this was going to be an exciting space adventure, it was an action story, with lots of special effects. Let's say no one was going to be sitting in the theatre looking for a nuanced performance or a marvelous characterization. There was a man shaped hole in the story, we needed someone to fill the hole - there were a number of actors that could fill the slot, and it really didn't matter.
DWAS: Ruthless.
Subotsky: Unquestionably. It came down to Malcolm McDowell and Michael York. Michael York was cheaper.
DWAS: That's all? He was cheaper.
Subotsky: That's about it.
DWAS: Did his record, his movies, have any significance?
Subotsky: I knew him from the Three Musketeers. It seemed from that, that he could handle the role. I remember I'd seen him in Cabaret. I didn't like that.
DWAS: He was in Logan's Run.
Subotsky: If I'd seen that, we might not have hired him. I thought it was wretched.
DWAS: Once you had him, did you revise the script at all to fit the actor?
Subotsky: No. The script was the script. I'm sure that York had his suggestions and contributions. Everyone did. Everyone has something to say about your script, everyone has a little change, some improvement they want to make, they have notes, and so forth. . At some point, you have to put your foot down.
DWAS: I see.
Subotsky: He did ad lib a lot, I noticed. No end of problems. But he and Cushing, all the actors did it.
DWAS: How did he do?
Subotsky: Well enough.
DWAS: Do you think he brought a lot to the role. Did he inhabit the Doctor? Was he Doctorish?
Subotsky: The script called for a person of some characteristics, youth, athleticism, sex appeal to go places land do things. That was all that was needed. He did that. If you want to talk about his performance, ask him.
DWAS: I see. So I assume it was the same process for Leslie Ann Down, the female co-star?
Subotsky: More or less. She was the last addition to the cast. The American money chose her. She was popular in the America, flavour of the month. Quite expensive actually. I would have gone with someone cheaper.
DWAS: You had worked with her before though?
Subotsky: She had a small role in one of Amicus films, From Beyond the Grave, I believe, in 1974. That wasn't really a factor. A bigger one was her role in Upstairs Downstairs, she did that for several years and was quite well known.
DWAS: So she was popular on both sides of the Ocean.
Subotsky: I'm not sure how well known she was in Europe. She hadn't done any work there. Of course, if you're in American movies, you're everywhere. But Constantin had their own reasons.
DWAS: Which were?
Subotsky: Constantin was a European distributor, European attitudes towards sex or nudity were.... at odds with America. Ms Down had done a nude pictorial in one of the Men's magazines, I remember it was around the time we hired her. So that was actually a consideration, or so I heard.
DWAS: That she'd done nudes?
Subotsky: You should remember the situation was fluid. If Ms Down was ... flexible.... in certain matters, that might allow more latitude. You have to remember, a lot of these sorts of movies employed a certain amount of cheesecake. I was always against that sort of cheap exploitation myself. It has no place in family movies, I've always believed. You have to respect your actors, and you need to respect your audience.
****
Footnote #1: Michael York in real history actually did a film Riddle of the Sand, produced in 1978, released 1979, so it was a bit of a fluke that he ends up in Doctor Who. It's a matter of timing, that film came in just after he accepted Doctor Who. So history changes just slightly. But Riddle of the Sand failed, so nothing much was lost. Riddle was actually one of the last films that the Rank Organization funded. Instead, Rank is funding Subotsky's Doctor Who, a far more ambitious project, and hopefully they'll make money. So this may well prolong some of Rank's activities.
Malcolm McDowell, star of Clockwork Orange, is actually much better positioned to be Doctor Who. There's a fairly large gap in his film and television schedule around this time, but it looks like he was involved in some very long running projects, like Caligula.
For what it's worth, this is often how it happens. All too often. And for my own process, I did something similar - looking up a number of promising British and a few American actors, checking their IMDB track record, and seeing who would have been available at the right time. To be fair, it did come down strongly to York and McDowell, based on their track records. I ended up flipping a coin.
Footnote #2 : Leslie Ann Down. Down, born 1954, was a British Actress first appearing in 1969 in 'The Smashing Bird I Used to Know." Following this, she worked steadily in British films and television up until 1975-1976, when she moved to the United States. Notably, her British work included the hit television series, 'Upstairs Downstairs,' from 1973 to 1975, where she became extremely well known. Following her work on 'Upstairs Downstairs' she did a nude pictorial for Mayfair in 1975. Also, she appeared in one of the segments of the portmanteau film 'From Beyond the Grave' written by Milton Subotsky, so there's the Amicus connection. Between 1976 and 1980, in America, she featured in The Pink Panther Strikes Again, 1976; The Betsy, 1977; The First Great Train Robbery in 1978. She was a versatile performer, moving easily between drama and comedy, and capable of working easily with different styles.
She would have appeared early on Subotsky's list, simply for being relatively young at 25, having worked with her, and his being very familiar with her other work through television. Of course in 1979-1980 she's at or very near her career peak, and would co-star in films with Burt Reynolds and Harrison Ford, which might normally price her out of their market. But Constaninescu and Rank are putting. The key is that she's also well known in Hollywood, so American backers are likely to see her as part of the American/Hollywood community, literally one of their own, well known in North America, and they have the resources to afford her.
At least in terms of casting, with Cushing, Down, York and Falk, Doctor Who's Greatest Adventure is hitting well above the average of Star Wars clones.
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