Very likely, especially as I plan that Falangist Britain continues to use its flag, name, and official form of government throughout the war. The socialists in particular will suggest that Britain going falangist in some form was inevitable, which is why the United Kingdom should stay dead and buried.
The Fire Never Dies, Part II: The Red Colossus
- Thread starter Meshakhad
- Start date
I've finally managed to catch up and from what I've seen you've managed to keep up the pace and interest in the story. It's nice to see an ASU trying to be better than its predecessor and not seeing it as a necessary step toward indulging in an American Edition Cultural Revolution. I wait to see how the situation evolves but it seems clear that Canada will end up cutting ties with the UK when they go Falangist. I am afraid of what will happen in the future now that everyone is a Falangist before the Spanish themselves are...
I guess this means the British monarchy will die before Elizabeth II will get the crown?
I hope at least the former members will get better lives, at least the good ones...
I mean, they could flee to Canada and still be monarchs there... maybe
I mean since the Kaiserreich is going to be in charge of the Liberal/Bourgeois faction of the ITTL Allies from what I understand they may just put a new King on the throne of England like OTL George VI or such to go along with the general half-assed De-Falangalization they do in England. Since Monarchies ultimately look out for other Monarchies and from what I understand IOTL Britain was in favor of reestablishing the monarchy in Germany until it was clear no one else was interested amongst the Allies.
So Elizabeth II as queen of England is still quite likely to happen.
So Elizabeth II as queen of England is still quite likely to happen.
Assuming of course Germany doesn’t enthrone Charles Edward, of course.
Did the ASU keep its paperbacks green? Or is the dollar now a redback?
And speaking of people that sometimes appear on money, were Uncle Sam and Lady Liberty retained as national personifications by the ASU? Lady Liberty presumably cannot help being green, but Uncle Sam could opt for a red suit?
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I'm leaning toward ASU probably keeping the green dollars precisely because of how distinctive they are, or adopting a multi-color model at any rate.
Changing them to solely red seems to be more of a “yes we are communists” thing in Hollywood productions than something that would have actually been done (OTL communist countries, including Soviet Union, continued to use multicolored money).
About this, we will see a 3 ASU dollar note? Like the soviet 3 ruble note, or the 3 Cuban peso coin.
As for Uncle Sam in a red suit, that will surely happen and be curious to watch.
Changing them to solely red seems to be more of a “yes we are communists” thing in Hollywood productions than something that would have actually been done (OTL communist countries, including Soviet Union, continued to use multicolored money).
About this, we will see a 3 ASU dollar note? Like the soviet 3 ruble note, or the 3 Cuban peso coin.
As for Uncle Sam in a red suit, that will surely happen and be curious to watch.
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Okay, Aunt A-SU(e) is pretty good.
The other obvious candidate IMO would be Aunt Sally. (Given that 'Sollie' is In-Universe nickname for the IWW, Sollie -> Sally seems like an easy leap.)
Maybe have Uncle Sam represent the Government and Aunt Sallie represent the People and Revolution, and maybe make Uncle Sam look younger inorder to represent the Rebirth of a the nation and wearing a red and black suite with a cap.
What about a representation of the army, I'm thinking calling him General Arms a mixed African American.
What about a representation of the army, I'm thinking calling him General Arms a mixed African American.
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Probably not mixed; I think that it's simply too early for mixed race people to have wide enough acceptance despite the greater progressiveness of TTL. (Unless they were the product of sexual crimes, which brings up its own can of worms)
Post-WW2, they are firmly in the American camp.
Green. And no 3 dollar note.
Uncle Sam as we know him is basically dead. He got used by the Whites for recruiting posters. The Reds definitely came up with their own equivalent. Red and black suit (just red in earlier versions) wearing a flat cap, deliberately ambiguously aged. Not sure of a name.
Lady Liberty stuck around, given that the Statue of Liberty is in New York. It was even considered as a site for Debs' inauguration, but there would be no way for a large number of people to attend.
A variety of personifications of the Red Army were created for propaganda. The one that endured, however, was The Chief, created as part of a campaign to recruit Native Americans. He's a Native American war chief wearing a Red Army uniform. While many American-born whites were dismissive, the white immigrants who were so prominent in the Red Army, whose view of Native Americans was a lot more romantic, loved him. He was extensively used on informational posters and pamphlets within the military, usually with the iconic phrase "ORDERS FROM THE CHIEF".
Since the end of the war, he's appeared in political cartoons as the personification of the military itself and has started something of a trend of the American military using Native American imagery. Some of it has been offensive, but now that the Native Americans have actual political power, they're working to correct that. The Chief is still used in military propaganda films, but he's now being portrayed by a Native actor and mostly behaves like a veteran noncom. The destroyer AWS Sitting Bull was launched in 1920. Most recently, War Commissar William Z. Foster has decided that the first tank fielded by the Red Army will be named the Navajo (largely as a way to win support from Dinetah). This will start a pattern of American armored vehicles being named after Native American tribes.
So now it's the tanks instead of the helicopters that are named after native tribes? Interesting, though I wonder what you'll use for planes.
About "Red Sam" you could use a name that symbolizes the common worker, something like John, Jack or some other name that was common at the time.
Something that can be used to say "they have Uncle Sam, we have Red Jack" or something similar.
About "Red Sam" you could use a name that symbolizes the common worker, something like John, Jack or some other name that was common at the time.
Something that can be used to say "they have Uncle Sam, we have Red Jack" or something similar.
Honestly, probably just contemporary USA rank Insignia, at least for the moment. The Reds had control of a number of State National Guards before the revolution, so the insignia wouldn't, IMO, seem 'White-Tainted'.
So I'd think a mixture of familiarity (we already know what they mean), pragmatism (we've already got them) and inertia (changing them means we'd have to change them! That's work!) results in them staying as is, at least for now.
Maybe the Gold and Silver for Officer ranks gets changed out for red.
This actually raises a good question: Does the ASU actually have generals and officers at this point de jure or are they like the USSR or PRC who had positional ranks before realizing conventional officer ranks existed for a reason?
This got covered in the previous thread iirc, but basically the ranks were kept the same but noncoms can nominate someone from their unit to be considered for officer training; it was considered a suitable compromise on the American tradition of volunteer units electing their officers like in the first American Civil War/ War of Southern Secession
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Planes will be a bit all over the place as IOTL. The first fighter fielded by the ASU was the Seattle-1 Bane. I've namedropped "Redtail" and "Maurader" as names for WW2 aircraft.
Red Jack it is!
Gold and silver get changed for copper and bronze, respectively, as those are base metals. Red is for enlisted and noncoms. Since the first copper bars used for second lieutenants were not corrosion resistant, newly minted officers in the American military are referred to as "greenbars".
To elaborate, the Red Army adopted the US Army rank system wholesale because it was way easier than coming up with their own and Adolph Germer had enough on his plate (this was before he got replaced by Bronstein).
The system of nomination applies to all promotions, not just from noncoms to officers.