The earl of Northumberland wins Richard iii bosworth field

Instead of doing nothing at the battle the earl is able win Richard iii bosworth field with his force killing all of Tudor armies leaders and shattering it with minimal casualties. Even so while the king is alive most of the other parts of his army are battered because Percy only was able to save Richard at the last minute. What rewards does the earl get for wining richard the battle? How does this affect English politics with an acedent Percy family and a living Richard iii?
 
It doesn't matter. The armies and people that mattered at this battle were the Stanley's, later the Earl's of Derby,
The two brothers had combined forces larger than the Tudors and Yorkists combined.
So who ever the Stanley's decided to support would be the winners.
Northumberland's forces were not that large compared to the Stanley's.
 
If the earl's force was there with Richard would it give the Stanley's pause for thought maybe?
 
Very possibly, all I was saying was that it wouldn't be the Duke of Northumberland who would decide the battle, it would still be the Stanley's.
Which ever side that they supported would win. They had the power and the strength, so they where the major factor.
 
It doesn't matter. The armies and people that mattered at this battle were the Stanley's, later the Earl's of Derby,
The two brothers had combined forces larger than the Tudors and Yorkists combined.
So who ever the Stanley's decided to support would be the winners.
Northumberland's forces were not that large compared to the Stanley's.
I've never heard that the Stanley's had that big of an army. Besides when the Stanley engage for the Tudors Northumberland comes to the rescue and deastroys the all the forces fighting for Henry Tudor.
Very possibly, all I was saying was that it wouldn't be the Duke of Northumberland who would decide the battle, it would still be the Stanley's.
Which ever side that they supported would win. They had the power and the strength, so they where the major factor.
im pretty sure the Percy are more powerful then the Stanley's. At least overall.
 

Doosung

Banned
I guess one of his prize would be all of Richards neville land including the all the kingmakers estates held by the crown. Maybe the clifford land too. And if he's lucky Buckinghams. And definitely the stanleys and margaret beaforts lands. Maybe even the tudors former holdings.
 
I guess one of his prize would be all of Richards neville land including the all the kingmakers estates held by the crown. Maybe the clifford land too. And if he's lucky Buckinghams. And definitely the stanleys and margaret beaforts lands. Maybe even the tudors former holdings.
That seems like way too big of a prize. It would create the ultimate over mighty subject.
 
That seems like way too big of a prize. It would create the ultimate over mighty subject.

Agreed, he would be setting himself up for being vulnerable to a usurpation by the earl. He would get the largest portion of the land of Richard's followers but not all of it. The rest would be divided by the other supporters.
 
I appreciate that it's slightly altering the PoD, but the best way to get around the noted problem of the Stanley brothers is to present them with a fait accompli. Obviously, Richard tried this in OTL,but didn't quite manage it.

One of the difficulties of discussing Bosworth is that it is woefully unrecorded. Best bet appears to be having Northumberland support Richard's mad dash across the battlefield, the added troops being enough to decide the day before Stanley arrives. If he could: it's clear that the terrain wasn't the best. However, if you're looking at writing a TL based on this, that dearth of contemporary accounts means making a change can't be immediately dismissed as implausible.

By this stage (Richard's charge), Norfolk is dead, so Percy is chief among the Ricardian commanders. If his cavalry can kill Henry, while his infantry rescue Norfolk's battle and rout Oxford, then it's a massive Percy win, although such is easier said than done.

He will be rewarded, and fairly handsomely, but nowhere near as much as Doosung suggests. For starters, if the Stanley forces are still intact, they lose nothing. Beyond that, others have already mentioned "over mighty subjects". Also, Richard had developed and nurtured his own northern network of patronage while Duke of Gloucester. He's not abandoning that wholesale. It's very likely that Percy becomes preeminent north off the Humber in the aftermath, but he won't become dominant. He might be rewarded with the Council of the North, but he might not be. It's a balance between gratitude and giving one man too much power.
 
Last edited:

Doosung

Banned
Agreed, he would be setting himself up for being vulnerable to a usurpation by the earl. He would get the largest portion of the land of Richard's followers but not all of it. The rest would be divided by the other supporters.
But Northumberland's claim sucks. So then what is a realistic reward?
 
But Northumberland's claim sucks. So then what is a realistic reward?

His claim would be as good as Richard makes it. Richard would have won after all so they would be his lands by right of conquest which means he could divvy them up as he chose.
 

Doosung

Banned
It means as Richard won and presumably has the army behind him he is the one who is the one who makes the rules. Anyone who wants to argue about it gets his head chopped off or at least thrown in prison.
I was talking about the usurpation bit and northumberlands claim.
 
Top