The Death of Russia - TL
- Thread starter Sorairo
- Start date
Given how Barkashov's Ideology is taking inspiration from William Luther Pierce's Turner Diaries, what are the chances that WLP gets unwanted attention in America and becomes a target of many threats? I can see the American Neo-Nazi becoming a target of an angry Russian refugee with a gun whose family was likely slaughtered by the Fascists. WLP's book also inspired a reviled genocidal maniac; what are the chances WLP gets detained by Federal Authorities and his National Alliance movement banned for inspiring terrorism?
That said, the Second Russian Civil War could also be a massive PR hit with various Neo-Nazis being deemed suspicious and profiled by Police. I imagine even those Neo-Nazis begin to feel a sense of disillusionment and horror at what is transpiring in Russia, leading to many people leaving their movements. Plus, this could lead to many Western Neo-Nazi Movements and Parties abandoning Nazism and opting for a "laid-back" White Nationalist Ideology (Basically, they are still racist ultranationalist chauvinists, but they simply moderate and avoid openly being nazis for the sake of PR).
That said, the Second Russian Civil War could also be a massive PR hit with various Neo-Nazis being deemed suspicious and profiled by Police. I imagine even those Neo-Nazis begin to feel a sense of disillusionment and horror at what is transpiring in Russia, leading to many people leaving their movements. Plus, this could lead to many Western Neo-Nazi Movements and Parties abandoning Nazism and opting for a "laid-back" White Nationalist Ideology (Basically, they are still racist ultranationalist chauvinists, but they simply moderate and avoid openly being nazis for the sake of PR).
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Seeing as WLP was still alive at this point, and depending on how soon the reveal of what inspired the Fashists gets out, we might see him get arrested and the church he founded (Cosmotheist Community Church) get shut down.
Honestly, I could see the US and much of Western Europe targeting all of their Far-Right movements for suspected ties to Barkashov and the Nashist Regime.
Plus, I could imagine many Far-Right Individuals or Movements that aren't Nazis trying to sever the ties they have with Neo-Nazi Movements to avoid PR backlash. Plus, you also have Far-Right Groups trying to roll back their rhetoric. Or you have other Neo-Nazi groups who continue to follow their ideology but condemn the Russians for "failing" to uphold Nazi Principles and protecting the White Race (Which would do little to reassure the public since they are still Nazi scumbags).
That said, I do imagine the Western Governments developing fears of Neo-Nazi Terrorist Groups similar to Atomwaffen and The Base (These two terrorist groups support an Accelerationist Neo-Nazi Ideology that believes the collapse of society will bring about the rise of a Nazi Regime, with these groups being inspired by William Luther Pierce).
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I'm inclined to think that the US is more likely to reject out of hand the notion that AN AMERICAN could have inspired such a thing, no matter how much they loathe WLP. Also demands for "don't harasse WLP, don't believe Russian propaganda"
In any case, I see all the neo-Nazis yelling that this was definitely not what they had in mind (lie) and that in any case Barkashov completely misinterpreted the book (lie, of course). And too many people would rather believe that "Barkashov is based on Turner Diaries" is Russian propaganda to dirty America by association than admit that this is true.
Basically doing all sorts of double standards and whataboutism to prevent anyone from even remotely trying to link the horror of Russia to anything American.
Essentially since "Barkashov was supposed to be based on the Turner Diaries" is something that came out later but wasn't known at the time, I highly doubt there's going to be a massive anti-far-right backlash at this point in the TL. Especially if we consider that for the moment the only thing that has been registered is a massive increase in Russophobia and support for local nationalism.
In any case, I see all the neo-Nazis yelling that this was definitely not what they had in mind (lie) and that in any case Barkashov completely misinterpreted the book (lie, of course). And too many people would rather believe that "Barkashov is based on Turner Diaries" is Russian propaganda to dirty America by association than admit that this is true.
Basically doing all sorts of double standards and whataboutism to prevent anyone from even remotely trying to link the horror of Russia to anything American.
Essentially since "Barkashov was supposed to be based on the Turner Diaries" is something that came out later but wasn't known at the time, I highly doubt there's going to be a massive anti-far-right backlash at this point in the TL. Especially if we consider that for the moment the only thing that has been registered is a massive increase in Russophobia and support for local nationalism.
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So do the sirens mean that nuclear warheads are coming for those cities? If so…..
Also I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Western governments might seriously consider stripping any citizen fighting for the fascists of their citizenship. Can’t imagine them wanting people like Timothy McVeigh anywhere back within their borders.
Also I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Western governments might seriously consider stripping any citizen fighting for the fascists of their citizenship. Can’t imagine them wanting people like Timothy McVeigh anywhere back within their borders.
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In that case, I imagine a scenario where a group of Russian refugees in America tries to plot the assassination of WLP. These refugees have been victims of Fascist War Crimes, and since they associate WLP with Barkashov, it puts a target on his head.
And I do imagine Barkashov even admitting that the Turner Diaries was his inspiration, or at least I would imagine Rashists and RNU members testifying on the Hague that Barkashov was enamored with the Turner Diaries.
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I dunno. The very fact that one faction in this civil war are openly Fascist and calling for ethnic cleansing of Jews, Asiatics etc. would likely be enough to trigger the backlash in and of itself.
Was there not American far right volunteers , at least those will cause backlash
There’s going to be a lot more of a desire to ban Nazi and white supremacist groups now especially when US and other Western fascist support for the NSF fascists gets put into the spotlight. Even the GOP will have to be on board with this.
Not sure if it stops groups like the Proud Boys or Patriot Front from existing but at least the US government will make it even harder to be a neo-Nazi. At least that’s what I hope. But I’m optimistic the political iron is hot enough to strike for those who’ve been opposed to white supremacists and Nazis for so long (NAACP, SPLC, ADL, etc).
That said, I am curious about Timothy McVeigh. I mean, he did volunteer for the Nashis. Is he still alive? And would the atrocities committed by the Nashis lead to a horrified Timothy McVeigh learning that the Nashis are worse than the ATF and the US Government?
I mean, while he did the Oklahoma Bombing, I imagine the sight of Nashi Soldiers slaughtering helpless people and waging genocide would traumatize a man. Thus, he becomes disillusioned and traumatized by Extreme Right Politics due to what he witnessed in Russia.
I mean, while he did the Oklahoma Bombing, I imagine the sight of Nashi Soldiers slaughtering helpless people and waging genocide would traumatize a man. Thus, he becomes disillusioned and traumatized by Extreme Right Politics due to what he witnessed in Russia.
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Implying that someone of RNU survives and is captured to testify in The Hague, which... seems unlikely, seeing as Russia Europe is apparently destroying itself.
And this is assuming that the West is not going to decide to simply ignore the mentions of the Turner Diaries as baseless.
Hell, we've seen the same phenomenon in reverse, we just have to see all the nonsense that has been written about how works like The Catcher in the Rye is a favorite of various serial killers.
Yes, this is very likely. After all, if the far right does THAT in Russia, what guarantee is there that they won't try the same thing in any Western country?
I just think that no one will have any interest in delving too deeply into the "Barsakov was inspired by the American extreme right" thesis. In any case, the opposite will be emphasized, that is, how the Russian extreme right is a danger that may be influencing Western rightists, in the same way that it was done with the communists who were accused of being agents of the Kremlin.
Let us remember how even now it is considered unsubstantiated anti-American propaganda to say that Hitler was inspired by the actions of the United States against the indigenous people when planning Generalplan Ost.
I don't remember but, judging by what has been seen so far TTL, the focus will be on the US soldiers who intervened in Dagestan. And if there is talk of foreign soldiers on the fascist side, there will be talk of the Serbs and that will be all.
The recent chapters do have people testifying in the Hague.
I mean, Turner Diaries promotes a garbage ideology that encourages mass genocide. Hell, WLP also wrote many other books about White Supremacist Serial Killers gunning down interracial couples. White Supremacist Murderers inspired these books, with WLP praising them in his books.
Catcher in the Rye, meanwhile, isn't trying to promote harm, and they are not encouraging folks to be violent or whatever the book describes. While it does have its themes, it does not encourage them. Meanwhile, I would argue the Turner Diaries should warrant infamy as it openly encourages, praises, and celebrates waging genocidal race wars and mass murder as the author's intended goal.
Timothy McVeigh volunteered for the Nashis.
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Now that you said it the whole Monica thing is definitely going to be swept under the wrong. Everyone will be too busy with preventing WWIII to mind that.
Republican A: “Hey so this Monica person claims to have had sex with Bill. Should we-”
Republican B: “Dude we’re trying to prevent the apocalypse maybe later?!?!?!”
Now this makes me wonder why did Bill not do anything about Kosovo??? Or even Montenegro?
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This might be a bit too close to that one timeline about nuclear attacks during Bill’s administration, but would Bill institute serious government control over the economy during this whole crisis? The sheer panic over nuclear Armageddon since it’s now coming true is going to create so much economic chaos that even the laissez-faire crowd is going to want the state to step in to prevent the economy from spiraling out of control.
Fair enough.
My intent was never to try to defend, excuse, justify, praise, or anything remotely resembling saying something positive about the Turner Diaries.
The only reason I would take nuance to the idea that this book promotes any idea is that it is so horribly poorly written that it would only convince someone who already believes in all that lunatic, nonsensical bullshit. Of course, being poorly written is the least and most insignificant of all the horrible problems with that book and the genocidal bullshit it describes.
What I was trying to say here is that I think it's very likely that TTL West is going into a period of mass denial towards the "this was inspired by us" concept. As well as that they prefer to believe that, in any case, it was Barsakov who inspired the WLP and not the other way around. And no, no one will care that that is chronologically inaccurate and factually untenable. That's the "nice" thing about propaganda: it doesn't have to be accurate, people just have to believe it.
Basically: The Turner Diaries will earn well-deserved infamy, but the idea that it inspired Russia's fascist leader will most likely be treated as a baseless conspiracy theory.
There will probably be hysterical screams about how regulating the economy is what brought about the current state of Russia, and that therefore anyone proposing to regulate the economy is a traitor who hates the United States and wants to provoke a civil war. As I pointed out in the example above, this need not be true.
The promoters of the idea will be satisfied if they reach a critical mass of people who believe it and start aggressively protesting any attempt to regulate the economy because they believe it will cause America to collapse.
Yep. And it’s going to take years for people to get the public to realize the very hard truth. And even then they’re going to have to go through an uphill battle with the denial-industrial complex trying to pretend that the West never had any role in the Russian tragedy.
There’s going be so much chaos and panic though that even the GOP will want to maintain order and if that means trying to temporary regulate the economy to prevent shit from going to far that’ll be the case. There was a government bailout for the banks in OTL after 2008 for similar reasons and I imagine it won’t be hard for similar policies during these rough times.
It's not going to work that way. Because The Usual Suspects are not going to bother with nuance and hard truths like you and the previous posters, they are immediately going to shout "Western Far-Righters are the true culprits!" which will quickly escalate to "All Western Right-Wingers are the true culprits!" as soon as the dust settles a bit to deflect attention from Islam and call everyone who disagrees a fruit salad of politically charged expletives. Expect in the immediate aftermath of nuclear terrorism 99% of the population aren't going to be so easily intimidated. So all they'll accomplish is to poison the well for actual hard truths later.