The Death of Russia - TL

[Mitridates the Great]

Let's remember that the Yugoslav crimes were also committed in full view of the whole world... and the current consensus boils down to "Serbia did very bad things" but other than that no one outside of Yugoslavia cares.

Furthermore, precisely because it happens in full view of the whole world, this only multiplies the number of people who will be able to believe that "if only X, Y, or Z had been done, everything would have been different and without a doubt better" (because It's hard to make something like that worse.)

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

Furthermore, precisely because it happens in full view of the whole world, this only multiplies the number of people who will be able to believe that "if only X, Y, or Z had been done, everything would have been different and without a doubt better" (because It's hard to make something like that worse.)

Sometimes, the theories about this are either surface-level and not informed enough or are really detailed. I try to finding good readings in the latter and even then I know there's always something missing in the story. Same will be said in this TL about Russia's demise.

 

[Mitridates the Great]

Sometimes, the theories about this are either surface-level and not informed enough or are really detailed. I try to finding good readings in the latter and even then I know there's always something missing in the story. Same will be said in this TL about Russia's demise.

Yeah but that's a trouble no matter what's the POD you choose. In this case Russia's alternate demise won't be different than, for example, ACW.

 

[cex]

The NSF and the Nashis would never glorify the Catholic Monarchs or the Spanish Reconquista.

First of all, they are too ignorant and most likely don't even know about those concepts.

As the 'stab in the back' showed, one doesn't need to know much about history at all to construct myths.

Second, the Catholic Monarchs were just that, Catholic, while the NSF's view is surely Protestant when it comes to Catholicism (ie, they consider it the culmination of all that is evil and vile in an ecclesiastical institution).

The NSF, as 'good' Russian Orthodox, would see Protestantism, especially the Western version, as vile heresy, and Catholics as schismatics.

Lastly, since the Nashis emphasize how everything Russian is superior, they would never do anything they would consider to be "glorifying filthy papist foreigners".

Considering this is the NSF, killing Muslims(and Jews) would be seen as a virtuous, aspirational end in itself.

 

[cex]

That could happen, and I think that will be a common tendency. I was thinking of playing up Russia's European connections as something that Russians might do. Compare, if you would, the seachanges in German identity and the external representation of Germany over the decades. Anything that could lead to a popular representation of Russia as not separate from Europe but as a European country with bad luck would be in Russian interests.

ITTL, would the Russian Orthodox Church be seen as a 'civilising' influence on Russia or 'spiritual fuel' for the Tsars' imperial fantasies?

I would think that while there might be some approval for the Catholic Monarchs' actions, I think that overall early modern Spain would be too remote to be that relevant.

The NSF's favourite Tsar would be Nicholas I by far: "Nicholas I came to represent autocracy personified: infinitely majestic, determined and powerful, hard as stone, and relentless as fate."

It would be interesting, particularly since the formation of these identities was both successful and quite recent.

This, in turn, could bring interesting insights to bear onto the formation of national identities in the subject territories of other European empires, settler and otherwise. How quick were these shifts? How contingent were they on certain things happening?

An independent Austrian national indentity only began to emerge after World War II: before 1945, Austria was considered as being a politically independent part of 'Germany'.

 

[Whiteshore]

An independent Austrian national indentity only began to emerge after World War II: before 1945, Austria was considered as being a politically independent part of 'Germany'.

And on that note, Siberia and the FEK could be seen as a combination of Austria and the European colonies in the Americas (and Australia/NZ) vis-a-vis how their national identities developed.

 

[cex]

And on that note, Siberia and the FEK could be seen as a combination of Austria and the European colonies in the Americas (and Australia/NZ) vis-a-vis how their national identities developed.

Yermak Timofeyevich would have been as famous here as Columbus and Captain Cook.

 

[NotBigBrother]

Yermak Timofeyevich would have been as famous here as Columbus and Captain Cook.

Or Hernán Cortés.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

Without Russia to export oil, grains, and other resources, I expect a whole lot of countries to make bank by selling those resources. So I expect the commodities boom of the 2000s to last longer which can help a lot of countries.

 

[cex]

Would songs such as Slavsya and Farewell of the Slavianka be as famous as, say, the Battle Hymn of the Republic ITTL?

 

[Lalli]

Would songs such as Slavsya and Farewell of the Slavianka be as famous as, say, the Battle Hymn of the Republic ITTL?

I don't know if these would are as famous as BHotR but at least more famous probably. At least The March of Siberian Rifle Men would be more famous since Siberian army used that as their song.

 

[TickTock The Witch's Dead]

The frozen conflict in Abkhazia and South Ossetia could flare up in the 21st Century considering there are too many issues between them and Georgia that are unresolved. Some Georgian politician would want Abkhazia conquered in order to resettle the Georgian refugees there whilst South Ossetia would try another bid at independence.

 

[cex]

What moments in both Russian and European history would have been 'harsher in hindsight', after Russia has entirely ceased to exist ITTL?

 

[AstroRangerBeans]

What happened to Transnistria, even after the events of 4/10 when Moldova was poised to annex the disputed land?

What cities in former European Russia are the likeliest to have a better reconstruction in the post-4/10, except for Moscow?

In the aftermath of the 4/10, the city of Volgograd/Stalingrad was a place of a deadly battle between the Nashis and the Anpilov's Soviets and the first city to be nuked by a stolen nuclear weapon, the city would be placed under a formal exclusion zone due to amounts of radioactive fallout caused by the detonation and its implications. Aside from that, the 4/10 aftermath might replace the Chornobyl disaster in terms of the spread of fallout clouds including the radioactive isotope, but it depends on the wind direction.

In what wind direction of the post-4/10 nuclear fallout will go through?

 

[John-Dax]

Well, since Utkin was mentioned here I think that we could also think about Prigozhin and his fate ITTL.

I personally think that he will be among those 20,000 Jews who went to Israel because of Nevzorov-Rabin Deal. I don't really think that Rabin will say NO to those who had Jewish fathers. Although, Prigozhin himself hasn't made it clear we can be 90 percent sure that he is Jewish on his father's side so most likely he was among those 20,000.

 

[Sorairo]

What happened to Transnistria, even after the events of 4/10 when Moldova was poised to annex the disputed land?

What cities in former European Russia are the likeliest to have a better reconstruction in the post-4/10, except for Moscow?

In what wind direction of the post-4/10 nuclear fallout will go through?

Transnistria remained loyal to Lebed and was thus spared from invasion due to Lebed's connections in the West. After 4/10, Transnistria would ultimately be forced to accept returning to Moldova in return for high autonomy and passport rights to any and all of the three Russias.

Any close to the borders - cities in the interior have been left to rot and be overgrown by the radioactive weeds.

It was so spread out that it didn't matter much and cancer rates went up pretty much everywhere - a large amount went south and caused havoc in Iran and Central Asia, compounding their hatred of Russians.

Well, since Utkin was mentioned here I think that we could also think about Prigozhin and his fate ITTL.

I personally think that he will be among those 20,000 Jews who went to Israel because of Nevzorov-Rabin Deal. I don't really think that Rabin will say NO to those who had Jewish fathers. Although, Prigozhin himself hasn't made it clear we can be 90 percent sure that he is Jewish on his father's side so most likely he was among those 20,000.

I'll endorse that. By TTL 2023, Prigozhin is a semi-successful restaurant owner in Tel-Aviv that occasionally dables in organised crime and gets interviewed by the press about being one of the last Jews in St. Petersburg before it ceased to exist.

 

[Whiteshore]

I'll endorse that. By TTL 2023, Prigozhin is a semi-successful restaurant owner in Tel-Aviv that occasionally dables in organised crime and gets interviewed by the press about being one of the last Jews in St. Petersburg before it ceased to exist.

What food does Prigozhin sell in his restaurant and does he have any dodgy political views with that in mind?

Any close to the borders - cities in the interior have been left to rot and be overgrown by the radioactive weeds.

Any prominent examples, with that in mind?

 

[Sorairo]

Any prominent examples, with that in mind?

Rostov is an example of a city recovering (though often due to it acting as a smuggling point for immigration into the EU via Ukraine).

Kazan is an example of total abandonment - the Urallic republics were evacuated and their abandoned and annihilated civilization and society are now testaments to the evil of the NSF.

 

[Whiteshore]

Rostov is an example of a city recovering (though often due to it acting as a smuggling point for immigration into the EU via Ukraine).

Kazan is an example of total abandonment - the Urallic republics were evacuated and their abandoned and annihilated civilization and society are now testaments to the evil of the NSF.

I assume that Rostov (and other such cities rebuilt after 4/10) have the same vibe as cities like Chandigarh, Islamabad, Brasilia, or Abuja have IOTL? And on that note, I assume the few surviving people still living in the former Uralic republics are near-100% rural ethnic Russians who refused to leave.

 

[L'amateur d'aéroplanes]

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