marathag
Banned
Luna Missile was the Soviet name for what NATO called FROG-3, with 12kt warheads.
As far big nukes, only the IRBMs had the megaton warheads, all else was tactical, uner 200kt
The Cuban Missile War of 1962
- Thread starter Vaporized
- Start date
As far big nukes, only the IRBMs had the megaton warheads, all else was tactical, uner 200kt
Vaporized
Banned
Chapter 4: The End Comes
Three different instances of American B-52 bombers accidentally drifted into Soviet airspace. One took place over the southwestern corner of the Soviet Union, two others over Canada and the Arctic Circle. Each were met with the interception of Mig fighters at different bases in and around Russia.
It took only one to kill about half a billion people.
On the edge of the Bering Straight a crew from Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska had drifted just over the Soviet border in such an occasion. In response to several Mig fighters engaging them, the distress signals from the crew prompted the response from several F-102 Delta Daggers, one of which was carrying nuclear tipped Falcon air to air missiles.
After a few minutes of aerial combat between aircraft of opposing sides in Soviet airspace, one of the devices was accidentally used, incinerating two of the Migs sent to intercept. The remaining Mig was shot down conventionally.
Within minutes after receiving news of the nuclear detonation, Khruschev from his bunker was outraged. His fears that an American first strike was now underway seemed to be confirmed. But he would first be cautious. There would be nuclear retaliation since this was a direct act against the Soviet Union itself.
An light weight bomber carrying a tactical nuclear device was launched at the same Air Force installation in Alaska was ordered within minutes. The Soviet aircraft carrying the device made its way into American airspace, was able to release the device, and shot down just after. Hundreds of Americans are killed in what is supposed to be retaliation for perhaps a few dozen.
A snowball had started rolling downhill.
Upon hearing the news of this nuclear attack in Alaska, Kennedy has a more morbid feeling than the nuclear strike on Cuba. With military officials asking for direct nuclear retaliation against the Soviet Union for this response and the television media already on uninterrupted live broadcast after the events in Cuba, Kennedy agrees to a form of retaliation, but conventional weapons used through targets throughout East Germany on Soviet bases there. Kennedy will do everything he can to prevent any outbreak of nuclear armed conflict worldwide. All nuclear ammunition upon aircraft and elsewhere are to be remove from all American aircraft to prevent further possible mistakes.
Of course as Kennedy orders further airstrikes in East Germany, further action occurs from the Soviet Union hitting American bases in West Germany throughout the night in the largest aerial battle of the conflict.
After the nuclear exchanges of this date and November 2nd, both John Kennedy and Nikita Khruschev remained on high alert for possible strikes from either side indicating a wider nuclear conflict. They didn't come forward. Conventional warfare however did. By November 4th, messages sent between both leaders had reached one another over teletype. Kennedy had seen the Soviet leaders mention of an immediate ceasefire. The American president sent a response in reply to allow several days for his government to consider this option before peace talks could begin. By November 7th, remaining US forces in the Gulf of Mexico were able to make a renewed landing on the southern coast of Cuba using Guantanamo Bay as a beach head. Aerial patrols remained in case of further nuclear attacks which had now been determined to be rogue elements of the surviving Cuban army. In about ten days without a central government intact and Havana more than half destroyed, US forces were fairly quickly able to take control over the whole of the island. Any remaining Cuban or Soviet military personnel on the island generally surrendered to American forces without hesitation. The main objective of the landing force had been secured. The postponed national midterm elections were held in December instead. With overwhelming support, the Democrats took control over both the House and Senate in the wave of nationalism that spread from defense.
On November 10th, EX-COMM returned to Washington D.C. after several nights in secured locations in case of further nuclear launches. They were able to consider the Soviet Union's call for immediate cessation of hostilities. Now given Cuban being under complete American occupation, they agreed to the terms of this offer. A full action ceasefire was to be put in place at noon EST on November 15th. Peace talks at the United Nations were schedule to begin immediately after. Because of the nuclear scare on November 2nd, the organization had evacuated out of New York City for fear of escalation could lead to its destruction as well. Cooler heads were now being able to prevail. Congress eventually returned to the capital and resumed its duties. One of its first acts for return was to sign and accept the agreement for an armistice regarding conflict. In the three weeks of open fight estimates were that about four million Americans, Cubans, Russians, and others had been killed either in combat or attacks. Many in both the House of Representatives and Senate criticized the peace agreement heavily citing the loss of so many Americans in the conflict. Many walked out of chambers as it was being discussed in protest.
Relief efforts were placed around damaged cities rogue Cuban forces had launched. International aid to Cuba also poured in with a humanitarian crisis not seen since the end of World War II. Parts of Cuba were not expected to be habitable again for decades because of nuclear fallout. By 1965, Cuba was half the population it was in 1960. Harsh martial law was imposed over Cuba by the American occupation force. Free elections were planned to be held in 1963 to that control over a new government with a capital temporarily relocated to Santiago would rule instead. Resentment towards American and Soviet forces was immense to say the least and would remain so into the next century. Hundreds of thousands of refugees from around destroyed American communities in Alabama and Florida had to locate elsewhere in the country. The impacts on those state economies had been devastating.
Fifteen million Americans in the panic of the nuclear attacks on the United States had fled urban areas fearing the potential for wider nuclear conflict. As a result, the United States and much of the globe entered into economic downturn in the middle of the 1960s. The prosperous economy that Kennedy had inherited in 1960 was now a thing of the past. Despite high levels of support for President John F. Kennedy in the wake of the crisis, his political career would never be the same again. Kennedy had been haunted by his actions, especially those with nuclear weapons that had caused the lives of millions of not only Cubans but American citizens as well. His already poor health from Addison's disease and other ailments was made massively worse by the short conflict to the point doctors felt he shouldn't make a run for reelection in 1964.
Within a year of the conflict, Kennedy rarely made public appearances outside of the White House. Many of his duties were being passed to Vice President Lyndon Johnson, the First Lady, or his cabinet. Needed actions over other issues such as civil rights and more were greatly neglected. The war had changed Kennedy irreversibly. He no longer sought to be a hawk promoting armed conflict after the horrendous results brought to American soil. US advisers from Vietnam were removed almost entirely in full. Efforts for negotiation on growing matters were to be his priority. The first voluntary were to remove all offensive long range nuclear missiles in England, Italy, and Turkey from around the borders of the Soviet Union which were later found to have been a chief factor as to why the Russians had put missiles into Cuba at all. This was a first step in reducing tensions so another nuclear conflict never happened again.
In the remaining time in his term, Kennedy refused the construction of further nuclear weapons and sought ways in which to reduce production. American and Soviet nuclear arsenals peaked in the 1960s. They would not be higher ever again after 1962. The Cuban Missile War is considered a turning point towards detente and the end of the Cold War. Both the United States and Soviet Union agreed to at first a test ban treaty limiting particle radiation in the atmosphere. Both massively agreed however that these steps would not go far enough. Both sides offered treaties calling for the reduction of nuclear weapons stock piles by over fifty percent. A hotline was established between the White House and the Kremlin in case further conflict needed resolution. All nations in the southern hemisphere following the conflict agreed to ban the development or storage of nuclear weapons permanently.
By 1964, Soviet rivals in the politburo who felt Khruschev had massively weakened Soviet prestige in the world with his poor handling of the Cuban Missile Conflict and especially being the one who offered the ceasefire following perceived American aggression, was removed in a cou and forced into retirement. For decades after reports on the guilt of the thousands of Russian troops killed in the attacks and untold Cuban and American civilians also lost haunted him and like John F. Kennedy considered to be a factor in the demise of their personal health before death. Leonard Breshnev replaced him. John F. Kennedy, feeling he let the American public down by not preventing an armed conflict and now being too poor in health and spirit announced his intention not to run for reelection as president. This allowed open the door for Vice-President Lyndon Johnson and others to seek the Democratic nomination. The platforms of both parties were ways to prevent another nuclear armed conflict in the future and pacify the Cold War as much as possible. Foreign matters became top priority for the rest of the decade. Lyndon Johnson would be elected US president in 1964. After 1965, Kennedy will return to private life at his home in Boston only making some public appearances. He will have his memoirs written including the harrowing events of the Cuban conflict written before his death in the 1970s. It will be posthumously published following his death in Boston in 1974. Kennedy's body would be placed into a private family cemetery and later moved to the Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston years later. In tabloids and magazines in the 1970s stories and rumors of his increased addiction to painkillers and nightmares about the events of the Cuban war leaked. The official cause of death was a stroke from complications with Addison's disease. Nikita Khruschev would die in 1970 himself of heart failure.
The American recession doesn't end until 1968. By then both the United States and Soviet Union had taken major steps to reduce nuclear arms and reduce tensions. A policy of neutralization of Vietnam was agreed upon by all powers in 1965 to form a joint coalition government. China had been actively developing nuclear weapons but abandoned its program in the mid-1960s. Treaties reducing the sizes of nuclear arsenals in Europe and Asia by two thirds by 1975 were reached. Complete bans of development of new nuclear weapons and all testing of such devices was reached in 1968. The risk of nuclear war felt greatly by the end of the 1960s. Conventional forces on both sides were agreed to be reduced as well. Many overseas American bases closed as a result in the 1970s to prevent armed conflict again. For his efforts at creating peaceful tensions Lyndon Johnson went on to win reelection in 1968 and continue to be America's president until 1973. He able able to master both domestic and foreign affairs during his time in office. Republican George McGovern was elected president in 1972 and successfully secured two terms before being replaced by a democratic rival in 1980 who himself had two terms.
By 1965, a democratically elected socialist government has taken place in Cuba. It becomes headquartered in a new capital located at Cienfuegos. Several American bases as well as that first at Guantanamo Bay remain in place with long term security agreements and to assist in the aftermath of nuclear fallout on the island. Most American military forces leave the island by the end of the year. Any American trade embargo on Cuba is ended and international tourism returns to the island by the late 1960s. It is a spark that begins to help the decimated Cuban economy recover. Cuba's GDP will not return to the pre-war level however until 2022. Its population not to reach the same measurement until 1995. The United States continued its space program and successfully placed a man on the Moon in 1975. Despite decreasing the number of weapons in the arms race bitterness by the United States towards the Soviet Union remains strong because of the perceived reckless introduction of the weapons to Cuba to begin. Under a secret agreement to remove American missiles from Turkey and Italy, the Soviet Union secretly agreed to provide reparations and aid to the destroyed cities of Fort Meyers and Mobile. Most of the remaining population of the community would relocate elsewhere to nearby metropolitan areas in Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, and Texas. Wrecks of the ships destroyed by nuclear torpedoes including the USS Essex have become international marine sanctuaries. More famous than the wreck of the Titanic, submersibles head down and record the massive loss of life caused by a confused Soviet captain whose only contact with the outside world were American radio broadcasts discussing US nuclear strikes on Cuba.
Some communities are simply never rebuilt and populations totally move on elsewhere. Fidel Castro and his regime become reviled in Cuba for their inviting in of Soviet nuclear weapons and arms that started the conflict even though resentment towards the United States may never fade away. Parts of the old Havana remain as quarantine areas where the public is not permitted. The hulks of US destroyers and equipment destroyed in the first attempted wave of the American invasion in 1962 remain in place as reminders of the hazards that nuclear arms brought. This and several locations on the island become World Heritage Sites, among the most visited on the planet. For decades after the attacks on Cuba hundreds of thousands of Americans remain on disability or government aid either from injuries sustained by the attempted invasion of Cuba or rogue missiles fire at communities near the Gulf Coast. Most of Mobile, Alabama and Fort Meyers, Florida remain zoned off into the next century due to nuclear contamination in the soil. in 1982, during the twentieth anniversary of the conflict they became the sites of two US National Memorials. President Jimmy Carter oversaw the dedications. Thousands of survivors who fled the attacks and lost loved ones or friends in the rogue nuclear attacks attended. They are among the most visited sites in the National Park System. Presidents since Lyndon Johnson have reflected policy to not allow such carnage, especially with atomic weapons to occur again.
Despite the horrors of the Cuban War, Cold War tensions did not reduce enough to completely end the arms race. It still took economic stagflation and reform minded leaders to bring about the end of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact finally dissolved in 1993. The scarring events from the fall of 1962 will forever haunt the United States and the world as nuclear weapons still exist in small numbers in the twentieth century. The five million dead ultimately in the years after the conflict are a permanent reminder of how dangerous the world can be if weapons of these magnitude are introduced.
Three different instances of American B-52 bombers accidentally drifted into Soviet airspace. One took place over the southwestern corner of the Soviet Union, two others over Canada and the Arctic Circle. Each were met with the interception of Mig fighters at different bases in and around Russia.
It took only one to kill about half a billion people.
On the edge of the Bering Straight a crew from Elmendorf Air Force Base in Alaska had drifted just over the Soviet border in such an occasion. In response to several Mig fighters engaging them, the distress signals from the crew prompted the response from several F-102 Delta Daggers, one of which was carrying nuclear tipped Falcon air to air missiles.
After a few minutes of aerial combat between aircraft of opposing sides in Soviet airspace, one of the devices was accidentally used, incinerating two of the Migs sent to intercept. The remaining Mig was shot down conventionally.
Within minutes after receiving news of the nuclear detonation, Khruschev from his bunker was outraged. His fears that an American first strike was now underway seemed to be confirmed. But he would first be cautious. There would be nuclear retaliation since this was a direct act against the Soviet Union itself.
An light weight bomber carrying a tactical nuclear device was launched at the same Air Force installation in Alaska was ordered within minutes. The Soviet aircraft carrying the device made its way into American airspace, was able to release the device, and shot down just after. Hundreds of Americans are killed in what is supposed to be retaliation for perhaps a few dozen.
A snowball had started rolling downhill.
Upon hearing the news of this nuclear attack in Alaska, Kennedy has a more morbid feeling than the nuclear strike on Cuba. With military officials asking for direct nuclear retaliation against the Soviet Union for this response and the television media already on uninterrupted live broadcast after the events in Cuba, Kennedy agrees to a form of retaliation, but conventional weapons used through targets throughout East Germany on Soviet bases there. Kennedy will do everything he can to prevent any outbreak of nuclear armed conflict worldwide. All nuclear ammunition upon aircraft and elsewhere are to be remove from all American aircraft to prevent further possible mistakes.
Of course as Kennedy orders further airstrikes in East Germany, further action occurs from the Soviet Union hitting American bases in West Germany throughout the night in the largest aerial battle of the conflict.
After the nuclear exchanges of this date and November 2nd, both John Kennedy and Nikita Khruschev remained on high alert for possible strikes from either side indicating a wider nuclear conflict. They didn't come forward. Conventional warfare however did. By November 4th, messages sent between both leaders had reached one another over teletype. Kennedy had seen the Soviet leaders mention of an immediate ceasefire. The American president sent a response in reply to allow several days for his government to consider this option before peace talks could begin. By November 7th, remaining US forces in the Gulf of Mexico were able to make a renewed landing on the southern coast of Cuba using Guantanamo Bay as a beach head. Aerial patrols remained in case of further nuclear attacks which had now been determined to be rogue elements of the surviving Cuban army. In about ten days without a central government intact and Havana more than half destroyed, US forces were fairly quickly able to take control over the whole of the island. Any remaining Cuban or Soviet military personnel on the island generally surrendered to American forces without hesitation. The main objective of the landing force had been secured. The postponed national midterm elections were held in December instead. With overwhelming support, the Democrats took control over both the House and Senate in the wave of nationalism that spread from defense.
On November 10th, EX-COMM returned to Washington D.C. after several nights in secured locations in case of further nuclear launches. They were able to consider the Soviet Union's call for immediate cessation of hostilities. Now given Cuban being under complete American occupation, they agreed to the terms of this offer. A full action ceasefire was to be put in place at noon EST on November 15th. Peace talks at the United Nations were schedule to begin immediately after. Because of the nuclear scare on November 2nd, the organization had evacuated out of New York City for fear of escalation could lead to its destruction as well. Cooler heads were now being able to prevail. Congress eventually returned to the capital and resumed its duties. One of its first acts for return was to sign and accept the agreement for an armistice regarding conflict. In the three weeks of open fight estimates were that about four million Americans, Cubans, Russians, and others had been killed either in combat or attacks. Many in both the House of Representatives and Senate criticized the peace agreement heavily citing the loss of so many Americans in the conflict. Many walked out of chambers as it was being discussed in protest.
Relief efforts were placed around damaged cities rogue Cuban forces had launched. International aid to Cuba also poured in with a humanitarian crisis not seen since the end of World War II. Parts of Cuba were not expected to be habitable again for decades because of nuclear fallout. By 1965, Cuba was half the population it was in 1960. Harsh martial law was imposed over Cuba by the American occupation force. Free elections were planned to be held in 1963 to that control over a new government with a capital temporarily relocated to Santiago would rule instead. Resentment towards American and Soviet forces was immense to say the least and would remain so into the next century. Hundreds of thousands of refugees from around destroyed American communities in Alabama and Florida had to locate elsewhere in the country. The impacts on those state economies had been devastating.
Fifteen million Americans in the panic of the nuclear attacks on the United States had fled urban areas fearing the potential for wider nuclear conflict. As a result, the United States and much of the globe entered into economic downturn in the middle of the 1960s. The prosperous economy that Kennedy had inherited in 1960 was now a thing of the past. Despite high levels of support for President John F. Kennedy in the wake of the crisis, his political career would never be the same again. Kennedy had been haunted by his actions, especially those with nuclear weapons that had caused the lives of millions of not only Cubans but American citizens as well. His already poor health from Addison's disease and other ailments was made massively worse by the short conflict to the point doctors felt he shouldn't make a run for reelection in 1964.
Within a year of the conflict, Kennedy rarely made public appearances outside of the White House. Many of his duties were being passed to Vice President Lyndon Johnson, the First Lady, or his cabinet. Needed actions over other issues such as civil rights and more were greatly neglected. The war had changed Kennedy irreversibly. He no longer sought to be a hawk promoting armed conflict after the horrendous results brought to American soil. US advisers from Vietnam were removed almost entirely in full. Efforts for negotiation on growing matters were to be his priority. The first voluntary were to remove all offensive long range nuclear missiles in England, Italy, and Turkey from around the borders of the Soviet Union which were later found to have been a chief factor as to why the Russians had put missiles into Cuba at all. This was a first step in reducing tensions so another nuclear conflict never happened again.
In the remaining time in his term, Kennedy refused the construction of further nuclear weapons and sought ways in which to reduce production. American and Soviet nuclear arsenals peaked in the 1960s. They would not be higher ever again after 1962. The Cuban Missile War is considered a turning point towards detente and the end of the Cold War. Both the United States and Soviet Union agreed to at first a test ban treaty limiting particle radiation in the atmosphere. Both massively agreed however that these steps would not go far enough. Both sides offered treaties calling for the reduction of nuclear weapons stock piles by over fifty percent. A hotline was established between the White House and the Kremlin in case further conflict needed resolution. All nations in the southern hemisphere following the conflict agreed to ban the development or storage of nuclear weapons permanently.
By 1964, Soviet rivals in the politburo who felt Khruschev had massively weakened Soviet prestige in the world with his poor handling of the Cuban Missile Conflict and especially being the one who offered the ceasefire following perceived American aggression, was removed in a cou and forced into retirement. For decades after reports on the guilt of the thousands of Russian troops killed in the attacks and untold Cuban and American civilians also lost haunted him and like John F. Kennedy considered to be a factor in the demise of their personal health before death. Leonard Breshnev replaced him. John F. Kennedy, feeling he let the American public down by not preventing an armed conflict and now being too poor in health and spirit announced his intention not to run for reelection as president. This allowed open the door for Vice-President Lyndon Johnson and others to seek the Democratic nomination. The platforms of both parties were ways to prevent another nuclear armed conflict in the future and pacify the Cold War as much as possible. Foreign matters became top priority for the rest of the decade. Lyndon Johnson would be elected US president in 1964. After 1965, Kennedy will return to private life at his home in Boston only making some public appearances. He will have his memoirs written including the harrowing events of the Cuban conflict written before his death in the 1970s. It will be posthumously published following his death in Boston in 1974. Kennedy's body would be placed into a private family cemetery and later moved to the Kennedy Presidential Library in Boston years later. In tabloids and magazines in the 1970s stories and rumors of his increased addiction to painkillers and nightmares about the events of the Cuban war leaked. The official cause of death was a stroke from complications with Addison's disease. Nikita Khruschev would die in 1970 himself of heart failure.
The American recession doesn't end until 1968. By then both the United States and Soviet Union had taken major steps to reduce nuclear arms and reduce tensions. A policy of neutralization of Vietnam was agreed upon by all powers in 1965 to form a joint coalition government. China had been actively developing nuclear weapons but abandoned its program in the mid-1960s. Treaties reducing the sizes of nuclear arsenals in Europe and Asia by two thirds by 1975 were reached. Complete bans of development of new nuclear weapons and all testing of such devices was reached in 1968. The risk of nuclear war felt greatly by the end of the 1960s. Conventional forces on both sides were agreed to be reduced as well. Many overseas American bases closed as a result in the 1970s to prevent armed conflict again. For his efforts at creating peaceful tensions Lyndon Johnson went on to win reelection in 1968 and continue to be America's president until 1973. He able able to master both domestic and foreign affairs during his time in office. Republican George McGovern was elected president in 1972 and successfully secured two terms before being replaced by a democratic rival in 1980 who himself had two terms.
By 1965, a democratically elected socialist government has taken place in Cuba. It becomes headquartered in a new capital located at Cienfuegos. Several American bases as well as that first at Guantanamo Bay remain in place with long term security agreements and to assist in the aftermath of nuclear fallout on the island. Most American military forces leave the island by the end of the year. Any American trade embargo on Cuba is ended and international tourism returns to the island by the late 1960s. It is a spark that begins to help the decimated Cuban economy recover. Cuba's GDP will not return to the pre-war level however until 2022. Its population not to reach the same measurement until 1995. The United States continued its space program and successfully placed a man on the Moon in 1975. Despite decreasing the number of weapons in the arms race bitterness by the United States towards the Soviet Union remains strong because of the perceived reckless introduction of the weapons to Cuba to begin. Under a secret agreement to remove American missiles from Turkey and Italy, the Soviet Union secretly agreed to provide reparations and aid to the destroyed cities of Fort Meyers and Mobile. Most of the remaining population of the community would relocate elsewhere to nearby metropolitan areas in Mississippi, Louisiana, Florida, and Texas. Wrecks of the ships destroyed by nuclear torpedoes including the USS Essex have become international marine sanctuaries. More famous than the wreck of the Titanic, submersibles head down and record the massive loss of life caused by a confused Soviet captain whose only contact with the outside world were American radio broadcasts discussing US nuclear strikes on Cuba.
Some communities are simply never rebuilt and populations totally move on elsewhere. Fidel Castro and his regime become reviled in Cuba for their inviting in of Soviet nuclear weapons and arms that started the conflict even though resentment towards the United States may never fade away. Parts of the old Havana remain as quarantine areas where the public is not permitted. The hulks of US destroyers and equipment destroyed in the first attempted wave of the American invasion in 1962 remain in place as reminders of the hazards that nuclear arms brought. This and several locations on the island become World Heritage Sites, among the most visited on the planet. For decades after the attacks on Cuba hundreds of thousands of Americans remain on disability or government aid either from injuries sustained by the attempted invasion of Cuba or rogue missiles fire at communities near the Gulf Coast. Most of Mobile, Alabama and Fort Meyers, Florida remain zoned off into the next century due to nuclear contamination in the soil. in 1982, during the twentieth anniversary of the conflict they became the sites of two US National Memorials. President Jimmy Carter oversaw the dedications. Thousands of survivors who fled the attacks and lost loved ones or friends in the rogue nuclear attacks attended. They are among the most visited sites in the National Park System. Presidents since Lyndon Johnson have reflected policy to not allow such carnage, especially with atomic weapons to occur again.
Despite the horrors of the Cuban War, Cold War tensions did not reduce enough to completely end the arms race. It still took economic stagflation and reform minded leaders to bring about the end of the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact finally dissolved in 1993. The scarring events from the fall of 1962 will forever haunt the United States and the world as nuclear weapons still exist in small numbers in the twentieth century. The five million dead ultimately in the years after the conflict are a permanent reminder of how dangerous the world can be if weapons of these magnitude are introduced.
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49ersFootball
Banned
I'm assuming the Civil Rights Act of 1964 & Voting Rights Act of 1965 still passes in this TL like it had in real life ?
On McGovern: He's NOT a GOPer. Plus, I can see Reagan running for the Presidency in 1972 IF LBJ wins back-to-back 4-year terms.
If JFK were to die in 1974, I still would prefer to have him buried at Arlington National Cemetery in Arlington, VA. Which would leave the country without any former Presidents at that time...
1.) The fallout over civil rights being pushed back, will likely further enrage many civil rights leaders, who will probably NEVER trust the Kennedy's ever again.
2.) I can see LBJ using his skills as US Senate Majority Leader in getting the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed & likely pressuring JFK to sign it into law.
3.) Would we see JFK NOT going to Dallas on November 22nd, 1963 due to his Addison's disease escalating ?
On McGovern: He's NOT a GOPer. Plus, I can see Reagan running for the Presidency in 1972 IF LBJ wins back-to-back 4-year terms.
If JFK were to die in 1974, I still would prefer to have him buried at Arlington National Cemetery in Arlington, VA. Which would leave the country without any former Presidents at that time...
1.) The fallout over civil rights being pushed back, will likely further enrage many civil rights leaders, who will probably NEVER trust the Kennedy's ever again.
2.) I can see LBJ using his skills as US Senate Majority Leader in getting the Civil Rights Act of 1964 passed & likely pressuring JFK to sign it into law.
3.) Would we see JFK NOT going to Dallas on November 22nd, 1963 due to his Addison's disease escalating ?
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Vaporized
Banned
Given the refugee, economic, and political crisis after the war and needing to recover civil rights legislation will not occur in the Kennedy presidency. His successors will have to handle that. No other president besides Howard Taft is at Arlington.
Kennedy will know he isn't running for reelection by the first anniversary of the conflict. He won't be going to Texas for any reason except to support the new choice for the Democratic nomination.
After a nuclear conflict no one will want to nominate a war hawk like Reagan for the Republican nomination. There won't be calls for increasing nuclear arms ever again.
49ersFootball
Banned
1.) LBJ manages to get the Civil Rights Act of 1965 & Voting Rights Act of 1966 passed.
2.) I'm assuming JFK's tomb will be in the front of the Presidential Library ?
3.) Thurgood Marshall still gets put on SCOTUS during LBJ Presidency.
4.) Would Reagan still become CA Governor in 1966 against Daddy Brown ?
Vaporized
Banned
Who says he has a tomb? Why not just a burial plot? Kennedy will be reviled as a war hawk for his choice to use force after the missiles were activated in Cuba. His approach may seem more aggressive than what Johnson did in Vietnam.
Everything else will stay the same regarding civil rights and Johnson's presidency, especially Reagan being anti-communist after the Soviets are indirectly to blame for nuclear weapons destroying two American cities.
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I wanted to like this, but the constant switching between present and past tense makes it hard to read.
Vaporized
Banned
As for Robert Kennedy, he serves out his term as Attorney General with his brother and then resigns in 1965 after the Johnson administration takes power. He goes back and forth helping to care for his ailing brother and then runs for the US Senate representing New York in 1964. He makes an unsuccessful run for the presidency in 1972, but is reelected to his Senate seat in 1970. He serves out his term until 1977 at the age of 52 and then ultimately retires from public office except as a volunteer and spokesman for civil and humanitarian rights. During his time in office many bills helping minorities, women, and the poor make it through passage as a result. He passes away of cancer in 1995 at the age of 70. Kennedy was present at the dedication of both national memorials for the nuclear attacks in America.
Lyndon Johnson served out the remainder of his presidency until 1973 and died of a heart attack just a year before John F. Kennedy did of his own illnesses. They remained friends afterwards despite differences and in contact. First Lady Jackie Kennedy died in 1994. Former Vice-President Richard Nixon retired from public life after losing the 1960 presidential election again Kennedy and the race for California governor. He died in California in 1994.
Martin Luther King continued speaking out for the poor across America until his death of lung cancer in 1980. With American and Soviet weapons arsenals not rising above their 1962 peak ever again, the need for Russia to invade Afghanistan doesn't occur and a certain group of supporters called the Mujahadeen never receive US weapons support. Iran however does overthrow the Shah and install a pro-Islamic government in 1979. President McGovern brilliantly led the rescue of American hostages in Tehran.
Lyndon Johnson served out the remainder of his presidency until 1973 and died of a heart attack just a year before John F. Kennedy did of his own illnesses. They remained friends afterwards despite differences and in contact. First Lady Jackie Kennedy died in 1994. Former Vice-President Richard Nixon retired from public life after losing the 1960 presidential election again Kennedy and the race for California governor. He died in California in 1994.
Martin Luther King continued speaking out for the poor across America until his death of lung cancer in 1980. With American and Soviet weapons arsenals not rising above their 1962 peak ever again, the need for Russia to invade Afghanistan doesn't occur and a certain group of supporters called the Mujahadeen never receive US weapons support. Iran however does overthrow the Shah and install a pro-Islamic government in 1979. President McGovern brilliantly led the rescue of American hostages in Tehran.
I'm not so sure that they would use B-52 for bombing. Too vunerable and designated for mostly nuclear strike.
B-66 Destroyer is more likely.
B-66 Destroyer is more likely.
49ersFootball
Banned
McGovern was NOT a GOPer.
Since LBJ still dies in 1973, I'm assuming he passes away 5 months later leaving office ?
marathag
Banned
No worse than over North Vietnam was a few years later.
They way I wouldnse it, you would have Navy and TAC bombers whack the Radar and SAM sites, with them also doing the first strikes on the IRBMs, with B-52 last, just to moonscape the areas.
Now in 1962 they had the same conventional bombload as a B-29, while the F-105 over in TAC had the bombload of a B-17.
IMO, General Power wouldn't release a single B-52, as they would be stuffed with Hydrogen Bombs, itching to drop on the USSR, WP and China, per his interpretation of the current SIOP, that was bomb the hell out of everything Red that wasn't Yugoslavia.
I really feel that after the first nuke popped against the invasion force, he would have released every asset he had to do that mission.
While many(including myself) think of Power as being actually insane, what comes out that CNO Adm. George Anderson, heading the blockade and the Invasion, would have acted similarly on any nuke used against his force. He would have had his A3D Whales nuke whatever Cuban IRBM sites they had intel on.
Navy wanted to know those sites, so they had F8U Crusaders set as low level photo recon, so they didn't have to rely on getting the U2 pics from the CIA or USAF.
Anderson got along so poorly with SecDef McNamara during the Crisis, he was forced to retire shortly after, rather than his expected path of being the next Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.
a) Vietnam was purely conventional theather
b) If you want to make a surprise and pinpoint attack on nuclear weapons bases in Cuba, you fly nap of the earth and hit them with tactical strike aircrafts like F-105 or tactical bombers like B-66 or naval bombers like A-3 and A-5.
B-52 aren't really good for nap of the earth flying and Cuban radars will see them 200 miles far from Cuba. Not so good to get tactical/almost strategic surprise.
BTW @Vaporised, destroyers aren't really amphibious ships. So the USN will not use them for that purpose.
The B-52s did have Hound Dogs, capable of low altitude attack, and faster and smaller than most aircraft.
Deleted member 9338
The warhead you are talking about was used on the FROGs and not sure if they could be converted to a mine. Also you need Soviet technicians to do this.
Also the nuclear torpedo would sink the carrier or a couple of close escorts but not the entire task force. It would be combat ineffective, just not sunk.
An interesting thread. Close enough to reality to be believable. Cuba was a hell hole of revolutionary ideals. Castro in particular was particularly incensed by the fUSSR removing the nuclear weapons and aircraft - the fUSSR ordered the removal of IL-28 BEAGLE bombers which it had sold to the Cubans as part of a separate deal. They never did compensate the Cubans for them. Castro did want to use nuclear weapons against any potential American invasion force and is on record ordering this.