I have heard it pointed out that Mendel's genetic discoveries could have been made by anyone since probably the dawn of the agricultural age who had basic literacy Mathematical skills and access to a lot of peas. Of course statistics and an intelectual elite that thinks counting peas is worthy of its time are themselves maybe non-obvious but nonetheless I have often found it suprising how late a propper understanding of hereditary principles came. Some advances seem to come as soon as the conditions for them are right. Others seem to linger. What are some examples of technologies thatmight have been made far later oer earlier than they actually were?
Technologies or Scientific discoveries that could have been made long before (or after) they actually were.
- Thread starter Samm
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Maybe heliograph/Morse code?
Maybe the heavy plow?
Probably certain kinds of crop rotation techniques.
We have some very interesting discussions about whether earlier bicycles are possible.
Or earlier or more expanded use of horse-drawn railroads.
Probably not germ theory, but some of the practical applications of it. More sanitation, and therefore less disease.
Printing seems like it could have been discovered in western antiquity, and probably earlier in China than it was. Perhaps also in the heyday of Islamo-Arabic civ.
Double entry bookkeeping?
Alphabetic writing.
Various kinds of domestication events.
Maybe the heavy plow?
Probably certain kinds of crop rotation techniques.
We have some very interesting discussions about whether earlier bicycles are possible.
Or earlier or more expanded use of horse-drawn railroads.
Probably not germ theory, but some of the practical applications of it. More sanitation, and therefore less disease.
Printing seems like it could have been discovered in western antiquity, and probably earlier in China than it was. Perhaps also in the heyday of Islamo-Arabic civ.
Double entry bookkeeping?
Alphabetic writing.
Various kinds of domestication events.
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The Rosetta Stone. No reason it had to be discovered in the late 1700s. Could have been discovered hundreds of years before or after - or not at all for that matter.
Deleted member 160141
Easy: the treatment for shitting diseases. Not the cure for the disease; the treatment for their symptoms.
Dysentery and cholera are shitting diseases, which means that they desiccate your body no matter how much food or drink you put in yourself. This means that it takes away electrolytes, glucose and water for the duration of the illness. Unfortunately, the illness is usually long enough that you die of desiccation before it runs its course.
People only discovered an effective treatment (boiled salt water + honey) in the early 20th century, if I recall correctly.
Water, salt and honey were available to any shaman or army medic from the Akkadian period onward, so it's amazing that it wasn't discovered sooner.
If people had learned early on (say, ~3000 BC) that such a potion treated dysentery, there would be an immediate effect on virtually everything.
Armies historically lost most of their numbers to disease, and then mostly to shitting diseases, so this knowledge means that deaths in armies go down dramatically. Supplies of the correct materials would become valued items in any baggage train, and one of the prime targets for skirmishers attacking them.
A lot of dysentery/cholera deaths also came from people working or regularly traveling through unsanitary conditions (fields, unpaved roads, the countryside) and either getting an infected cut or ingesting infected materials (unboiled water, unclean food, etc). Thus, this remedy would also raise life expectancy among civilians, especially in the cities.
Cholera and dysentery aren't as well-known as smallpox and plague, but they accounted for far more deaths overall than either of them, and they're up there with tuberculosis for greatest death-count of human history.
Dysentery and cholera are shitting diseases, which means that they desiccate your body no matter how much food or drink you put in yourself. This means that it takes away electrolytes, glucose and water for the duration of the illness. Unfortunately, the illness is usually long enough that you die of desiccation before it runs its course.
People only discovered an effective treatment (boiled salt water + honey) in the early 20th century, if I recall correctly.
Water, salt and honey were available to any shaman or army medic from the Akkadian period onward, so it's amazing that it wasn't discovered sooner.
If people had learned early on (say, ~3000 BC) that such a potion treated dysentery, there would be an immediate effect on virtually everything.
Armies historically lost most of their numbers to disease, and then mostly to shitting diseases, so this knowledge means that deaths in armies go down dramatically. Supplies of the correct materials would become valued items in any baggage train, and one of the prime targets for skirmishers attacking them.
A lot of dysentery/cholera deaths also came from people working or regularly traveling through unsanitary conditions (fields, unpaved roads, the countryside) and either getting an infected cut or ingesting infected materials (unboiled water, unclean food, etc). Thus, this remedy would also raise life expectancy among civilians, especially in the cities.
This alone means faster population growth and fewer downsides to living in a city, and thereby faster urbanization.
Faster development of science and trade follows from there.
Cholera and dysentery aren't as well-known as smallpox and plague, but they accounted for far more deaths overall than either of them, and they're up there with tuberculosis for greatest death-count of human history.
Edit: okay, why is everybody liking this post?
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Some things were discovered, lost, then discovered again.
The treatment for scurvy, for example, I understand.
There also the concept of Steam Engine Time, where:
The time still has to be right, Thr right people behind it.
The treatment for scurvy, for example, I understand.
There also the concept of Steam Engine Time, where:
So, just because a society knows of something, the steam engine in Greece, 1st century, wheels for the Incas and Japanese, does not mean it will be used.
The time still has to be right, Thr right people behind it.
i had the idea that the proliferation of the Antikythera mechanism could lead to the earlier invention and proliferation of clocks, ultimately meaning that wristwatches are a thing by the 17th century, though i'm not sure how accurate that assessment is
i also had the idea that Greek fire is re-invented in the mid-18th century (originally just arbitrarily, though now i'm planning to tie it into a narrative project) with the end result being that modern flamethrowers are invented more than a century "ahead of schedule"
i also had the idea that Greek fire is re-invented in the mid-18th century (originally just arbitrarily, though now i'm planning to tie it into a narrative project) with the end result being that modern flamethrowers are invented more than a century "ahead of schedule"
Basically, most biological knowledge. The theories of evolution, inheritance, taxonomy, and most basic ecological knowlegde like food chains, population growth/decline, climate zones and biomes, characterization of enviroments, the effects of human activity on the enviroment, and also medicine from natural compounds, a basic theory of infection, and more effective methods of agriculture... all those are well into the possibility of any society that has a basic scientific method and is well travelled. Well, to be fair, the theory of evolution started to be seriously considered with the development of paleontology, but evolution extrapolated from artificial selection and taxonomy is not unreasonable.
Indeed, some pieces of biological knowledge were known in parts to people all over the world, and most often it was non-industrial societies that had the largest knowledge about natural processes and behavior, not surprising since it was vital to their existance. One could say that 'naturalist' is the oldest (well, second...) job of all time.
To be honest, the facts compiled in 'natural histories' like those of Pliny and Aristotle seem so outrageous that it's doutbful that your average hunter, fisherman or farmer, who had more contact with nature at the time, would actually believe them. People in rural and natural areas around the world in modern times are extremely knowledgeable about their natural enviroment as attested by piles of research; maybe a society that develops an equivalent of ethnobiology early on will be able to compile all those bits and pieces of knowledge into general theory.
And again, this does not require a high level of technology. Bronze or iron age civilizations could do it. It only requires a more scientific approach to nature and people able and willing to spend the very long and ardous time for research. The latter one might be the biggest obstacle. It's hard to spend time researching the development of tadpoles and how the lady from the neighboring village uses leaves to desinfect wounds when you have to work for the fall harvest.
Indeed, some pieces of biological knowledge were known in parts to people all over the world, and most often it was non-industrial societies that had the largest knowledge about natural processes and behavior, not surprising since it was vital to their existance. One could say that 'naturalist' is the oldest (well, second...) job of all time.
To be honest, the facts compiled in 'natural histories' like those of Pliny and Aristotle seem so outrageous that it's doutbful that your average hunter, fisherman or farmer, who had more contact with nature at the time, would actually believe them. People in rural and natural areas around the world in modern times are extremely knowledgeable about their natural enviroment as attested by piles of research; maybe a society that develops an equivalent of ethnobiology early on will be able to compile all those bits and pieces of knowledge into general theory.
And again, this does not require a high level of technology. Bronze or iron age civilizations could do it. It only requires a more scientific approach to nature and people able and willing to spend the very long and ardous time for research. The latter one might be the biggest obstacle. It's hard to spend time researching the development of tadpoles and how the lady from the neighboring village uses leaves to desinfect wounds when you have to work for the fall harvest.
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Hot air balloons. Had Bartolomeu de Gusmão ("the flying priest") been successful in convincing the Portuguese king and court to support him (instead of chasing him out of the country), his projects could've been more refined and turned into something like what the Montgolfier brothers created decades later.
Like how Hobbs can help you and how the cows not giving milk is due to a curse or a witch.
There are a lot of things holding people back, too.
Securalism, giving up on superstition, no longer worshipping the ancients or elders for their knowledge just because they were ancient or elders, that would help a lot in many cases.
I am reminded of this:
I feel like the Wheel Barrow could have been invented as far back as the bronze age. Someone tinkering with their chariot or carriage just stumbling into it. Or a wagon load breaking down and forcing some sort of improvisation to get a small load of goods to market or wherever they need to go.
The 19th century in Europe or USA was not one of particularly strong secularism, neither was Islam during the Abbassid period.
And yet it was enough.
And even if it was not a particularly strong example of secularism, was there an earlier time that was?
Ambulances in the early 19th century had two wheels, not four, because it was thought to cause less bouncing.
Wheels were not it on luggage until most recently because of porters and bell hops, etc were there to nick it and haul it.
These are the sort of things that have to be overcome or abandoned before some things can be invented.
The Germ Theory
Seriously, it astounds me how long it took for people in the Middle Ages up to the 19th century to find out Miasma Theory was false
Seriously, it astounds me how long it took for people in the Middle Ages up to the 19th century to find out Miasma Theory was false
The tank
While it wasn't exactly a feasible design, Leonardo Da Vinci had the intellect to at least create a concept that resembles what we know of as the tank, so there was no reason we had to wait until the 20th Century for the first tanks.
en.wikipedia.org
While it wasn't exactly a feasible design, Leonardo Da Vinci had the intellect to at least create a concept that resembles what we know of as the tank, so there was no reason we had to wait until the 20th Century for the first tanks.
Leonardo's fighting vehicle - Wikipedia
The Puckle Gun and Ferguson Rifle not becoming a thing due to either bad tests, mechanical problems or it being just plain expensive to mass produce
Imagine breech loading muskets and flintlock revolvers during the Napoleonic Wars
Imagine breech loading muskets and flintlock revolvers during the Napoleonic Wars