Surviving Caucasian Albanians

[Portucale]

Is there any way the Caucasian Albanians could have survived, like the Armenians and the Georgians? In fact, they did survive as the Udis but they are a tiny minority in Azerbaijan. Apparently, what led Caucasian Albanians to near extinction while Armenians and Georgians survived is a combination of the Caucasian Albanian Church being weaker, having merged with the Armenian Church, the greater primotion of Islam in Caucasian Albania and the Turkic migrations.

 

[ramones1986]

Well, you need an Udi-wank.

 

[Blacklister]

Originally the Caucasian Albanian and Caucasian Iberian (Georgian) churches accepted Chalcedonianism under the Byzantine Orthodox Rite by the 7th century, while the Armenian church schismed from Constantinople and adopted Apostolic Miaphysitism instead. Had Armenia accepted Chalcedonianism/Dyophysitism alongside Georgia and Caucasian Albania (Arran), then all three would’ve been clerically subjected to Constantinopolitan authority, so there would be no dominance of Armenian Apostolicism over Albanian-Udi Apostolicism; since all three South Caucasian nations would be equally religiously subservient to Constaninople, the Arabs, Persians, and Turks would have a much harder time assimilating and Islamizing the Caucasian Albanian population, as the Caucasian Albanian identity would be far more independent and strongly consolidated, and perhaps there would be upwards of 1,000,000 Udi in the world today instead of the relatively miniscule 10,000 Udi we have in OTL.

 

[Portucale]

Originally the Caucasian Albanian and Caucasian Iberian (Georgian) churches accepted Chalcedonianism under the Byzantine Orthodox Rite by the 7th century, while the Armenian church schismed from Constantinople and adopted Apostolic Miaphysitism instead. Had Armenia accepted Chalcedonianism/Dyophysitism alongside Georgia and Caucasian Albania (Arran), then all three would’ve been clerically subjected to Constantinopolitan authority, so there would be no dominance of Armenian Apostolicism over Albanian-Udi Apostolicism; since all three South Caucasian nations would be equally religiously subservient to Constaninople, the Arabs, Persians, and Turks would have a much harder time assimilating and Islamizing the Caucasian Albanian population, as the Caucasian Albanian identity would be far more independent and strongly consolidated, and perhaps there would be upwards of 1,000,000 Udi in the world today instead of the relatively miniscule 10,000 Udi we have in OTL.

Thanks for the reply. Was Caucasian Albania ever Chalcedonian? I haven't read that. Caucasian Albania was Christianized by Armenian missionaries.
Anyways, wouldn't the Turkic migrations still heavily affect Caucasian Albania which was better territory for Turkic nomads than Armenia and Georgia? Note the Turks managed to assimilate and Islamize the Anatolian Greeks.

 

[FALightFighter]

... Note the Turks managed to assimilate and Islamize the Anatolian Greeks.

Not really. There were massive population transfers after WWI in the aftermath of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, but up to that point, there wasn't that much assimilation.

 

[Portucale]

Not really. There were massive population transfers after WWI in the aftermath of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, but up to that point, there wasn't that much assimilation.

The Greek population in Ionia before World War I was not continuous. Ionia was almost entirely Turkish in the 16th century. Its Greek population were migrants from the Aegean Islands. The Pontic Greeks, the Cappadocian Greeks and, to a lesser extent, the Greeks of Constantinople had a continuous presence.

 

[Mightyboosh5]

The Greek population in Ionia before World War I was not continuous. Ionia was almost entirely Turkish in the 16th century. Its Greek population were migrants from the Aegean Islands. The Pontic Greeks, the Cappadocian Greeks and, to a lesser extent, the Greeks of Constantinople had a continuous presence.

Is cappadicia and Pontus not part of Anatolia?

 

[Portucale]

Is cappadicia and Pontus not part of Anatolia?

Yes, but my point is that the Cappadocian and Pontic Greeks were a small minority. In the 1520s, Ottoman Anatolia was 92.1 percent Muslim.

 

[Mightyboosh5]

Yes, but my point is that the Cappadocian and Pontic Greeks were a small minority. In the 1520s, Ottoman Anatolia was 92.1 percent Muslim.

Love to see the source for that that’s really interesting I had always assumed it took them until significantly later to islamise Anatolia

tbh it’s more shocking because Ottoman Anatolia in 1910 wasn’t even that Muslim

 

[Kohlticus Euraleth]

Love to see the source for that that’s really interesting I had always assumed it took them until significantly later to islamise Anatolia

tbh it’s more shocking because Ottoman Anatolia in 1910 wasn’t even that Muslim

I'm not sure that post is totally accurate since "92.1%" is a very specific number compared to almost all other examples of pre-modern demographic estimates, but generally he's correct that the Christian population in Anatolia did begin rising again after reaching a nadir in the early 17th century due to a combination of the aforementioned islander migrations but also the generally higher birth rate of Christians in the Asian parts of the Ottoman Empire during the 18th and 19th century.

 

[Portucale]

Love to see the source for that that’s really interesting I had always assumed it took them until significantly later to islamise Anatolia

tbh it’s more shocking because Ottoman Anatolia in 1910 wasn’t even that Muslim

I'm not sure that post is totally accurate since "92.1%" is a very specific number compared to almost all other examples of pre-modern demographic estimates, but generally he's correct that the Christian population in Anatolia did begin rising again after reaching a nadir in the early 17th century due to a combination of the aforementioned islander migrations but also the generally higher birth rate of Christians in the Asian parts of the Ottoman Empire during the 18th and 19th century.

It's from an Ottoman hearth census, read https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...s-extinct-by-modern-day.460483/#post-18298227.

 

[Mightyboosh5]

It's from an Ottoman hearth census, read https://www.alternatehistory.com/fo...s-extinct-by-modern-day.460483/#post-18298227.

So the source you’ve cited is actually only talking about five provinces within Ottoman Anatolia, not the entirety of Ottoman Anatolia
I’ve linked a map of this survey

https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/aimp3e

As this map shows it actually omits Trebizond Cilicia and Lake Van, eg some of the most densely populated Christian regions of Anatolia,

if you look closely the map omits Izmir aswell because the anadolu eyalet did not include it

So it’s incorrect to say Anatolia was 92 percent Muslim however it’s still a really interesting source because I had no idea western Anatolia was so islamised by that point