Surrender of the 101st Division

Suppose in 1944, morale of the 101st division is so low that surrender seems inevitable. Three platoons early in the siege seem to go AWOL, apparently to surrender to the Germans, although in actuality they tried to scout out to see what German attack might be incoming but the other Americans don't know this. General McAuliffe starts probing around and both immediate subordinates and some low level lieutenants he asked believed surrender was inevitable, with some of the low level officers saying that while their unit won't be the first to do so, it was a domino effect waiting to happen. He knew he was told to hold Bastogne, but he believed the alternatives were to try a breakout or face his division melting away in surrender. He ordered a general breakout to the north on December 23rd 1 hour before sunrise, even though that is kind of the wrong direction to go to get rescued. 1/8 of the 101st Division that can walk (some soldiers kept fighting despite needing to be carried around by others) and the entire 705th Tank Destroyer Battalion follow him. The result is that over 90% of those trying to breakout perish and every single survivor is captured. McAuliffe's immediate subordinates, their subordinates, and a third level down (basically 3 levels in the chain of command) all died. McAuliffe himself loses a leg to an explosion and is captured by the Germans. Meanwhile at 3 o clock, the rest of the garrison that didn't come out (including 7/8 of the 101st division) surrender ignobly.

I have no illusions that this will make the Germans win the war. It won't even allow them to make their push towards Brussels. Their plan wasn't on solid ground to begin with. An example of their bad planning can be found in Salerno when they were confident in their ability to counterattack and push the allies into the sea, at least on this sector, even if not everywhere. Yet they failed here too. And in this case, even von Rundstedt was pessimistic of the Ardennenoffensive. In the Battle of the Bulge, a much more important German unit further north was supposed to advance, but was checked by the allies at Elsenborn Ridge, so even if the 10st was removed as a fighting force, the German plan had already failed. And the Germans would need to transfer units to the East like they did in OTL anyways.

But what would change? I don't think the post war borderline would change very much. But it means there isn't a heroic stand at Bastogne. The major allied victory here would be at Elsenborn Ridge, a less well known engagement that even in OTL was more important. Bastogne would be known as the place where almost an entire American division surrendered. Might this have some effect of the posture of American politicians post war? Or maybe they turn Elsenborn Ridge into a story of heroism so instead of the famous "Nuts!" we have Clift Andrus of the 1st Division being the hero?
 
The Americans get their equivalent of "France 1940", "Britain Singapore", and "Soviet Kiev" in pop culture. Expect American surrender memes. Less pro war films post war and more anti war films such as "A Bridge too Far". We wouldn't get the cool "Band of Brothers " tv series.
 
We wouldn't get the cool "Band of Brothers " tv series.

We might still get the Sands of Iwo Jima. In fact, during the war Japan was often seen as the main enemy by the public and the Pacific War the main one with Germany just being it's stronger ally (but if Germany is the stronger ally, isn't that the main enemy?)
 
They'd better hope Hitler doesn't decide to enforce his Commando order.

I don't know if that turns the surrendered men from an embarrassment to martyrs. I don't even know if he would enforce it. His thoughts towards the end of the war seem kind of random, the most consistent is being an evil Nazi
 
We might still get the Sands of Iwo Jima. In fact, during the war Japan was often seen as the main enemy by the public and the Pacific War the main one with Germany just being it's stronger ally (but if Germany is the stronger ally, isn't that the main enemy?)
Britain, France, USA, and the USSR all had their embarrassing moments and yet they still made pro war films post war. The British got humiliated by Germany in France 1940 and Singapore 1942 and yet post war, war films were a huge phenomenon in Britain. I would expect films specifically about hardships of war and defeat. The movie "In Harms Way" was a movie about Allied defeats, yet it still had a "War is necessary to defeat evil" message. I would expect more films about Allied defeats with that message. There numerous Chinese war films set in World War 2 in battles the Chinese actually LOST and yet they still featured a pro Chinese message
 
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marathag

Banned
That's OTL, so sorry in TTL we have one more surrender not an Alamo.
Large scale surrenders were possible by US Forces, but not after news of Malmedy got out, where you'd get machined gunned in a field, than taken prisoner.

You might get small scale surrenders after an assault by the Nazis, but the 101st would make it an American Stalingrad.
 

brooklyn99

Banned
As I understand it it is the custom of the American Army to fight.
That's the bare minimum for any army in general, no? What difference would it make in this circumstance, supposing the 101st's predicament didn't look to be so salvageable that Anthony McAuliffe had confidence to make his famous rebuttal?
 
Only 2 regiments and that was partly due to the commander of the division not hearing due to an communications failure the permission to withdraw if necessary.
 

cardcarrier

Banned
It's not as if the Americans didn't give up some bags of prisoners at Kaserine Pass or other various points in the southern campaign
 
It's not as if the Americans didn't give up some bags of prisoners at Kaserine Pass or other various points in the southern campaign

He was talking about later, but the 106th did fall to pieces just before Bastogne. Morale is a bit of a contagious thing.

Would the men of the 101st be disgraced post war?

Since we're clear what we're talking about (not a last stand at all), I don't know if the 101st would be treated differently than the 106th. The latter surrendered not just because they were outnumbered and surrounded, but they were just overrun.
 

mattep74

Kicked
How is 10,000 us soldiers surrendering going to make war movies less popular when 70,000 men surrendering in 1942 on bataan did not?
 
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