Supreme Court Cases as PoDs

Another possibility is that a Supreme Court decision might go farther than OTL. As I said a long time ago in a forum far, far away:

In Morgan v. Virginia, 328 U.S. 373 (1946), William Hastie - another [Charles Hamilton] Houston protege who was ultimately appointed to the Third Circuit - succeeded in convincing the Court to strike down segregation on interstate carriers. The decision ultimately rested on Commerce Clause grounds, but Justice Rutledge apparently asked Hastie during oral argument if the case could also be decided under the Fourteenth.

This wasn't just an opportunity - it was a stone cold invitation. However, Hastie stuck to the gradualist strategy of the NAACP, "pretended not to hear [Rutledge]," and followed the question with "fifteen minutes of irrelevancies." Gilbert Ware, William Hastie: Grace Under Pressure 189 (1984).

But what if Hastie had decided not to wait?

We will start with the internal evidence in [Brown v. Board seven years later], because this is the most direct indication of the Justices' private opinions on the continued validity of Plessy. Of course the discussion in the Brown case begain in 1952, but seven of the Justices on the Court at that time also sat on the Court in 1946. (More later on those who didn't.)

This evidence, however, varies. Richard Kluger, in Simple Justice: The History of Brown v. Board of Education and Black America's Struggle for Equality 614 (1976) states that an informal poll taken by the Supreme Court clerks among themselves after the initial discussions, indicates that "a majority of the Justices would not have overruled Plessy." Another document - this one a memo to files written by Justice Douglas - gives us the names of that majority.

As related by Tushnet, "Douglas stated, 'In the initial conference [in December 1952] there were only four who voted that segregation in the public schools was unconstitutional.' These were Black, Burton, Minton and Douglas. Vinson and Reed thought that 'the Plessy case was right,' and Clark 'inclined that way.' Both Frankfurter and Jackson 'expressed the view that segregation in the public schools was probably constitutional.'" 91 Columbia L. Rev. at 1881.

On the other hand, Frankfurter himself, in a letter to Reed after the final decision in Brown, stated that there would have been four dissenters - not including himself - if the Brown case had been decided under Vinson. Id. at 1870. Tushnet also acknowledges that Douglas might have placed Frankfurter on the list of dissenters due to their long-standing personal enmity. Id. at 1881-82. However, Frankfurter also bragged later on about "filibustering" the decision "for fear that the case would have been decided the other way under Vinson." Klarman, 83 Georgetown L. J. at 442-43. If Frankfurter had counted five votes in favor of Brown in 1952, as he claims in his letter, there would have been no need to "filibuster" - at least not for the reason stated. (To be fair to Frankfurter, his doubts in 1952 may have been about Minton rather than himself, as Minton had expressed ambivalent views - especially in private - in other cases involving race.)

Finally, Burton and Douglas apparently took their own headcounts and determined that there would be "two to four" dissenters if Brown had been decided in the 1952 term. Presumably the "two" would have been Vinson and Reed, while the "four" would have included Jackson and Frankfurter (or possibly Jackson and Clark). It may be, however, that these two Justices were being overly optimistic, especially with regard to their guess that the decision might have come down 7-2.

From this evidence, conflicting as it is, we can place the 1952 Court into three groups. Three Justices - Black, Burton and Douglas - were definitely against Plessy; two - Vinson and Reed - were definitely for it; and the other four were swing votes.

Which, it turns out, is all the information we need to determine whether Plessy would have been overturned in 1946.

Two of the Justices on the 1952 Court - Minton and Clark, both unknowns on Plessy - were appointed in 1949. At the time of the Morgan case, their chairs were occupied by two Justices who were considerably more liberal, Murphy and Rutledge. It was Murphy who vehemently condemned racism in his dissent in Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944) and stated in his concurrence in Duncan v. Kahanamoku, 327 U.S. 304, 334 (1946) that "[r]acism has no place whatever in our civilization... It renders impotent the ideal of the dignity of the human personality." Writing for the Court, he also struck down labor union segregation in Steele v. Louisville and Nashville R.R., 323 U.S. 192 (1944) in terms which suggested strongly that he believed any form of segregation was unconstitutional.

Rutledge wasn't quite as articulate as Murphy. However, he joined many of Murphy's dissents in racial cases, and also would have overturned California's Alien Land Law. That, and the fact that he was the one who invited Hastie to make a Fourteenth Amendment argument in Morgan, leaves little doubt that he was one of "the Court's most vociferous critics of racial discrimination." Michael Klarman, An Interpretive History of Modern Equal Protection, 90 Mich. L. Rev. 213, 233 (1991). This, in turn, leaves little doubt that he would have voted to overturn Plessy.

Thus, a minimum of five Justices in 1946 - Black, Burton, Douglas, Murphy and Rutledge - would have voted that segregation was unconstitutional under the Fourteenth. (We are, of course, assuming that Black, Burton and Douglas would have voted the same way in 1946 as in 1952, but IMO this is an assumption we can safely make.) The majority in favor of overturning Plessy, in fact, was probably firmer between 1946 and 1949 than it would have been in the 1952 term. My guess is that it would have been 7 to 2, with Jackson and Frankfurter - neither of whom was personally enamored of segregation - jumping on the bandwagon once they realized the game was up.

A decision in 1946 would also have come in the context of the Truman Administration rather than the Eisenhower one. This leads naturally to the question of whether Truman would have been more vigorous in enforcing the Court's dictates than Eisenhower was. Certainly, Truman had the courage to make and enforce some tough calls against segregation, such as his decision to integrate the Army in 1948. If he had the cojones to make a decision like that in an election year, would he have also followed through effectively after the Morgan Court overturned Plessy? If so, would we see the Federal marshals in Little Rock (or some other city) in 1947, and desegregation beginning for real nearly two decades before it actually did?

Morgan may have been a missed opportunity in more ways than one.
 
Poe v Ullman (1961) -- If Brennan hadn't agreed that the law wasn't ripe, this could well have been Griswold four years earlier.

Texas v Johnson (1989) -- If Scalia had voted with the conservatives on this, flag burning wouldn't have become such a big issue in the early 1990's (plus less free speech).

Davis v FEC (2008) -- Actually a worse ruling for clean elections than Citizens United, essentially saying that "leveling the playing field" in campaign spending is not a legitimate government interest, as it violates Buckley v Valeo. I can maybe see Kennedy agreeing with the dissenters (particularly Ginsburg) who say it doesn't, even if he still goes on to write the Citizens majority.

Morgan v Virginia (1946)

Another excellent example!

Robert Bork instead of Kennedy

That would have such huge butterflies in itself -- for example, the 88 election is likely affected, in which case all bets ate off in Casey...
 
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Japhy

Banned
I once posted a thread on the idea of Brown II going differently which never got a response. Without the ruling saying that desegrigation of schools should procede with “With All Deliberate Speed”, the changes of Brown v Board would be much more dramatic and quicker.
 
Was thinking earlier about how atrocious the Supreme Court was with regards to Civil Liberties in the decades following the Civil War, and found myself looking over a list a cases to find the best opportunity for a turning point. I'd say I found it in two cases that actually resisted what would eventually come to be the incorporation doctrine reading of the 14th Amendment: the Slaughterhouse Cases (1874) and US v Cruikshank (1876). Interestingly, despite having eight justices in common, between these two there was only one consistent dissenter, and two consistent majority men; AAR, they're both 5-4 decisions, and the former can be switched if Grant nominates someone other than Hunt in late 1872 (which would have fairly few other butterflies, as Justice Hunt had an incapacitating stroke in 1878 OTL). Reversing Cruikshank with such a contained PoD may be a little trickier, but maybe doable if built atop a different Slaughterhouse.
 
Captain Jack said:
Dred Scott v. Sandford
That went 7-2. Very unlikely it gets changed.
Captain Jack said:
Marbury v. Madison
Not likely to be changed, not when the court was unanimous. They don't do unanimous without damn good reason.

Miranda might have gone the other way...with serious consequences to implicating yourself when under arrest.:eek::eek:

Flood v Kuhn could have denied Major League Baseball was entitled to an exemption from the Sherman Act since it was "only a game"...:rolleyes: (Following the absurd unanimous decision in Federal Baseball League.:rolleyes::mad:)

Or Near v Minnesota, which prohibited prior restraint?:eek:

Or Olmstead , which held warrantless wiretaps don't violate the Fourth or Fifth Amendment?:eek::mad: (Nor the exclusionary rule.:eek:)

The bigger question is, how much does judicial philosophy of the individual justices, especially the Chief, influence the decisions that do get made. Can you change unanimous decisions based on butterflying who gets on the Court to begin with?

So, could you get changes to the obiter dicta of NLRB, to prohibit hiriing strikebreakers?:cool::cool: Or to Schechter decided the other way, & keep the NIRA alive?:cool: Or Toolson, & get the MBL monopoly thrown out?:cool::cool: Or change Santa Clara, in which the Harlan Court held corporations are persons (before oral argument even began:eek:).:mad: Change that, you butterfly Citizens United...& a lot of the poisonous crap that's happened as a result of corporations having speech protected in the first place.:mad:

If Miller had been argued differently, it might very well have found gun sale restrictions overturned...:eek:
John Fredrick Parker said:
Or you could have Powell side with Stevens, or even just do more to limit the rulings' impact -- after all, he said later in life that he regretted his opinion.
That has implications for keeping the death penalty at all. It also has implications for three strikes laws, the powder/crack cocaine sentencing laws...:eek::cool::cool:
 
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That went 7-2. Very unlikely it gets changed.

Well supposedly, Taney had planned on writing a very narrow opinion, but went with the broad strokes of Dred Scott in reaction to a combination of factors (primarily the Buchanan Administration imploring the Court for such an intervention).

The bigger question is, how much does judicial philosophy of the individual justices, especially the Chief, influence the decisions that do get made. Can you change unanimous decisions based on butterflying who gets on the Court to begin with?

I'd say any decision that's unanimous, for example, would require prior PoDs that are just so major in their own right, they'd be well outside the OP.

Miranda might have gone the other way...with serious consequences to implicating yourself when under arrest.:eek::eek:

Flood v Kuhn could have denied Major League Baseball was entitled to an exemption from the Sherman Act since it was "only a game"...:rolleyes: (Following the absurd unanimous decision in Federal Baseball League.:rolleyes::mad:)

Or Near v Minnesota, which prohibited prior restraint?:eek:

Or Olmstead , which held warrantless wiretaps don't violate the Fourth or Fifth Amendment?:eek::mad: (Nor the exclusionary rule.:eek:)

These are all really great examples.

That has implications for keeping the death penalty at all. It also has implications for three strikes laws, the powder/crack cocaine sentencing laws...:eek::cool::cool:

Well TBC, the first part needn't be decided with this case -- I'd see Powell arguing such in his ATL concurrent opinion -- but it may well become untenable if states can't find a way to make the implementation of the death penalty completely unbiased.
 
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What was the vote on the Korematsu (WWII Japanese-American internment) case?

Any chance that could go the other way?
 
John Fredrick Parker said:
Well supposedly, Taney had planned on writing a very narrow opinion, but went with the broad strokes of Dred Scott in reaction to a combination of factors (primarily the Buchanan Administration imploring the Court for such an intervention).
Huh. That's a small enough change for me, even if the actual votes don't change.
John Fredrick Parker said:
These are all really great examples.
:) TY. I personally like Cruikshank. The butterflies are jumbo-sized.:eek::cool:
John Fredrick Parker said:
Well TBC, the first part needn't be decided with this case -- I'd see Powell arguing such in his ATL concurrent opinion -- but it may well become untenable if states can't find a way to make the implementation of the death penalty completely unbiased.
Agreed, it need not have an impact, but opponents would have precedent supporting them where they wouldn't otherwise.

There's one other case, name of which I can't find: the 1972 case ruling, in effect, money equals speech. Change that, you effectively make Citizens United impossible, don't you?

Also, WP has Korematsu going 6-3.

Which reminds me: there's also a 1942 civil rights case about segregation of California schools, dealing with Latino restrictions. Change that one...
 
What was the vote on the Korematsu (WWII Japanese-American internment) case?

Any chance that could go the other way?

It was 6-3 -- answering whether it could have gone the other way is a little tricky, since two justices would need to switch their vote, but the six man majority of OTL included Justices (like Douglas and Rutledge) who were very big on individual rights. There is a clean way to get two extra votes in favor of the plaintiff -- if the Solicitor General's office hadn't suppressed the Ringle Report, any justices who were on the fence would be more likely to rule against the government.

There's one other case, name of which I can't find: the 1972 case ruling, in effect, money equals speech. Change that, you effectively make Citizens United impossible, don't you?

I think you're thinking of Buckley v. Valeo which was 1976.

Which reminds me: there's also a 1942 civil rights case about segregation of California schools, dealing with Latino restrictions. Change that one...

This I'm not sure I heard of; [does some googling], are you talking about Mendez v. Westminster (1946) by chance? Because that never reached the Supreme Court, and so is outside the OP.
 
John Fredrick Parker said:
It was 6-3 -- answering whether it could have gone the other way is a little tricky, since two justices would need to switch their vote, but the six man majority of OTL included Justices (like Douglas and Rutledge) who were very big on individual rights. There is a clean way to get two extra votes in favor of the plaintiff -- if the Solicitor General's office hadn't suppressed the Ringle Report, any justices who were on the fence would be more likely to rule against the government.
That would do it. Or if the defense had gotten the report by a friendly inside USG & submitted it...
John Fredrick Parker said:
I think you're thinking of Buckley v. Valeo which was 1976.
That's the one. Thx. (It's also not as susceptible to butterflies as I hoped.:()
John Fredrick Parker said:
This I'm not sure I heard of; [does some googling], are you talking about Mendez v. Westminster (1946) by chance? Because that never reached the Supreme Court, and so is outside the OP.
Yep, that's it. I was sure it had gone to SCotUS, as Brown did. It seems it might have, with butterflies in flight...but you're right, it's outside OP's scope.:(
 
Granted it was a 6-3, but Twin cities new party v. (can't remember) had significant repercussions by restricting political fusion. If the 1990's decision were upended, I see the tea party emerging as a right wing equivalent of the left leaning new party.
 

bguy

Donor
How about San Antonio ISD v Rodriguez. A 1973 case that was decided 5-4 where the Supreme Court rejected an Equal Protection challenge to school financing based on local property taxes.

If the court had gone the other way it would have been a sea change in how schools are funded. Furthermore, depending on how far the court was willing to go it also might have held that education was a Constitutional right and/or that wealth was a suspect classifaction (meaning that government actions that allegedly discriminate against people based on their income could only be upheld if they survived strict scrutiny analysis.) That would have been revolutionary and probably would have led to similar cases where other things were held to be constitutional rights (health care, housing, maybe even employment).
 
IIRC, didn't koremkatsu's decision help civil rights in the long run

I've read that as well -- that the majority opinion stipulated that the government could only do something like this where its compelling interest amounted to national security (or something like that), and that in the absence of an existential crisis (or a war?), the internments would be patently illegal. That does not mean, however, that Civil Rights are likely to do worse if the court goes the other way...
 
How about San Antonio ISD v Rodriguez. A 1973 case that was decided 5-4 where the Supreme Court rejected an Equal Protection challenge to school financing based on local property taxes.

If the court had gone the other way it would have been a sea change in how schools are funded. Furthermore, depending on how far the court was willing to go it also might have held that education was a Constitutional right and/or that wealth was a suspect classifaction (meaning that government actions that allegedly discriminate against people based on their income could only be upheld if they survived strict scrutiny analysis.) That would have been revolutionary and probably would have led to similar cases where other things were held to be constitutional rights (health care, housing, maybe even employment).
:eek::eek::eek::eek: That's pretty huge.:eek:

I like it a lot.:cool::cool:
 
How about San Antonio ISD v Rodriguez...

Furthermore, depending on how far the court was willing to go it also might have held that education was a Constitutional right and/or that wealth was a suspect classifaction (meaning that government actions that allegedly discriminate against people based on their income could only be upheld if they survived strict scrutiny analysis.) That would have been revolutionary and probably would have led to similar cases where other things were held to be constitutional rights (health care, housing, maybe even employment).

Depends on whose dissent becomes the de facto opinion -- FWIG, White had two joining his opinion OTL, in which he agreed with the majority that, first, there was no fundamental right to education, and second, that while class discrimination would be illegal in this respect, the question needs to pass minimal scrutiny; his departure from the majority was that the state law failed this test, as poorer districts had "no meaningful enhancement opportunities", and thus the law could not rationally be said to serve the stated purpose of local control.

While this would have impressive effects concerning education funding, I don't know that it would necessarily have huge repercussions were greater precedent is concerned.
 
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