Its also that Ben is utterly infatuated with Kiki and thinks that she would also be impressed by his achievements such as this.
But to her its kinda meh!
Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
Its also that Ben is utterly infatuated with Kiki and thinks that she would also be impressed by his achievements such as this.
But to her its kinda meh!
FBKampfer
Banned
The RWR bit makes me suspect that, even a decade ahead, Germany's missiles still have a fairly low hit probability against a maneuvering target. The first all-aspect sidewinder didn't come off the line until 1977, and even that only garnered a 70% hit rate.
I suspect Germany is sitting around a 15% with their latest models (noting that even this is at the higher end of the average for mid-model AIM-9's).
If I'm correct, Ben is actually quite the pilot. The early age of missile dogfights still had quite a bit in common with the gunfighting of WWII and Korea, and required a lot more skill than the point and click of modern aerial combat.
Perhaps he'll meet a certain Zhao Baotong in the air at some point.
Additionally, have they made the leap to a continuous rod warhead? Or are they simply using blast fragmentation?
I suspect Germany is sitting around a 15% with their latest models (noting that even this is at the higher end of the average for mid-model AIM-9's).
If I'm correct, Ben is actually quite the pilot. The early age of missile dogfights still had quite a bit in common with the gunfighting of WWII and Korea, and required a lot more skill than the point and click of modern aerial combat.
Perhaps he'll meet a certain Zhao Baotong in the air at some point.
Additionally, have they made the leap to a continuous rod warhead? Or are they simply using blast fragmentation?
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Ben finding out about the CAS shortfall has introduced doubt into his mind now.
That could create hesitation and that will get men killed.
It will go one of two ways:
He'll hesitate in action and either miss, or spend too long lining up his drop and get shot down.
Or, he'll go back to basics, reapply the maths and refine his timing for the dop point, and/or work an improvement into the bomb sight to reduce the risk of a short drop again.
That could create hesitation and that will get men killed.
It will go one of two ways:
He'll hesitate in action and either miss, or spend too long lining up his drop and get shot down.
Or, he'll go back to basics, reapply the maths and refine his timing for the dop point, and/or work an improvement into the bomb sight to reduce the risk of a short drop again.
I reckon it will be both.
The kid is obviously smart enough to get where he is, so he can adapt to the situation. But I reckon he will hesitate on the next go....
As General Pan knows that the only reason that Chiang Kai-shek has sent him to Korea is because he is building his own base of power with the Home Divisions that are around Beijing and Chiang needs to discredit him.
If Pan does take over China from Chiang that could be a case of going from the frying pan into the fire and there could be even more chaos in store later in the region.
I really love the name Dare to Die Corps as that is what they are going to do, the tanks that the Chinese are going to attack with seems to be too few in number to exploit any breach of the line.
I think that the upcoming attack against the Korean lines will be a near defeat for them but there should be other lines behind them to slow the Chinese until reinforcements can be shifted, that may have the effect of thinning out of Chinese units needed to stop the Korean-German offensive that is planned.
I think that friendly fire incidents were downplayed during the ITTL Second World War there still could be enough senior officers in the Luftwaffe who can tell Ben that these things happen and it is the price of war.
If Pan does take over China from Chiang that could be a case of going from the frying pan into the fire and there could be even more chaos in store later in the region.
I really love the name Dare to Die Corps as that is what they are going to do, the tanks that the Chinese are going to attack with seems to be too few in number to exploit any breach of the line.
I think that the upcoming attack against the Korean lines will be a near defeat for them but there should be other lines behind them to slow the Chinese until reinforcements can be shifted, that may have the effect of thinning out of Chinese units needed to stop the Korean-German offensive that is planned.
I think that friendly fire incidents were downplayed during the ITTL Second World War there still could be enough senior officers in the Luftwaffe who can tell Ben that these things happen and it is the price of war.
It is quite an interesting predicament of a war here.
Russian to the north are ready to steamroll in like a hammer to the North, where as you also have Japan ready to pounce from the West (whether wanted to or not), and you have the Yellow Sea which is pretty much German/Allied fleet Territory.
For better or worse the Chinese can only move on a "narrow" front through the Korean peninsula, and still have to guard their rear in case the Russian attack.
And there is a supplemental United Nations force supporting the Koreans here, with only the Americans supporting China, and with a toke force at best.
...
You know, considering that the US president pretty much announced an actual Declaration of War, they/he is really not doing that much with their own Military, just some advisors and special force. Seems kinda lackluster for a DOW, imo.
I kinda want one final naval battle between the US/Chinese Navy and the Allied UN navy. Actual ship-ship combat. As unlikely as it is, but still would be great to see something like that for one last time.
Russian to the north are ready to steamroll in like a hammer to the North, where as you also have Japan ready to pounce from the West (whether wanted to or not), and you have the Yellow Sea which is pretty much German/Allied fleet Territory.
For better or worse the Chinese can only move on a "narrow" front through the Korean peninsula, and still have to guard their rear in case the Russian attack.
And there is a supplemental United Nations force supporting the Koreans here, with only the Americans supporting China, and with a toke force at best.
...
You know, considering that the US president pretty much announced an actual Declaration of War, they/he is really not doing that much with their own Military, just some advisors and special force. Seems kinda lackluster for a DOW, imo.
I kinda want one final naval battle between the US/Chinese Navy and the Allied UN navy. Actual ship-ship combat. As unlikely as it is, but still would be great to see something like that for one last time.
Umm, not an expert on aircraft but wouldn’t the RIO be handling those munitions?
Good point
If that's the case and it's not Ben doing the drop then it should affect him far less, but I think it's the RIO sets them up and Ben pulls the trigger.
Part 95, Chapter 1494
Chapter One Thousand Four Hundred Ninety-Four
21st June 1962
Over Tongsin, Korea
Ben was dimly aware of the flares and Düppel that was flying out the back of the airplane as he was trying to keep them alive by climbing right at the sun. Wim reacted like he always did in situations like this by leaning on the button that dispensed the countermeasures. He could see the red light that signified that there had been a launch as well as hearing Wim yelling in his ear about it.
It had started out simple enough, the Chinese had broken through at Jonchon and there had been a desperate scramble to stabilize the lines. The fact that the enemy had punched through the lines in a place that that was supposed to be impossible had inspired a great deal of cynical laughter. Assuming that your enemy couldn’t do something was asking to have your balls kicked up between your ears.
That was also perfectly in keeping with the current situation that Ben had found himself in.
Returning to the airfield after that horrendous conversation with Kiki had been difficult. He had seen a side of her that he had found deeply disturbing. Not that she was angry, rather she simply didn’t care and the way she talked about what he did… The Oberst in charge of SKG 18 must have caught wind of it somehow because he had told Ben to “Get his head back in the game.” Not the best choice of words because it echoed Kiki’s words about how this wasn’t a game. Something she ought to know because one of those who had to clean up the mess.
Today Ben’s Squadron had been assigned to provide top cover for SKG 15 with their planes configured for the air-to-role. What many considered the greatest strength of the Pfeil was that it had the range to loiter over a given region without need to refuel and the Goshawks couldn’t just wait them out.
That was why when the search radar had detected four Goshawks over the area of operations Ben and his wingman had been raced along an intercept vector. Wim had gotten target lock and Ben had fired at the same time his wingman had. Eight of the Hermelin missiles had raced out and as Ben watched, the Goshawks had scrambled to get out of the way. One of them was hit and tumbled out of the air but the others had flown right at them. The plane flown by Ben’s wingman had eaten one of the sidewinders seconds later and Ben had found himself alone facing three Goshawks in what amounted to a World War One style knife fight. The warning about never getting into a turning fight with a Goshawk applied here as he used the greater lift and engine thrust of the Pfeil to engage them separately using the advantages that he had.
He had managed to get one with one of the heat-seeking Speer missiles and another with the 30mm but that had given the third a chance to get a launch on him. He might have told Wim that the Düppel was useless against the missile in question. At what Ben thought was the right second, he rolled the Pfeil over as hard as he could into a tight loop and his vision narrowed down to a narrow point. There came a hard kick and the whole plane shuddered. As Ben rolled out of the loop, he caught the reflection of where the missile had exploded in the mirror mounted in the faring above the canopy.
The Goshawk that had launched it was headed right at them. The thought that occurred to Ben in that second was that the Chinese pilot was to aggressive and lucky to be allowed to get away. Ben slammed the throttle all the way forward and flew into a head on pass. Both planes passed within a couple hundred meters of each other but from Ben’s perception it felt like considerably less. He rolled into a tight turn deploying the spoilers to drop the speed and cut inside the Goshawk. He tried to get a deflection shot but the opposing pilot anticipated that and dove for the deck with Ben following closely. He got target lock with one of the Speer missiles only to see it go wide. A puff of black smoke revealed that he had strayed too close to the Chinese air defenses and he was getting targeted by AAA, so he was forced to break off.
Later, following debrief, Ben was sitting in the Officer’s Club at the airfield with Wim as they were still trying to process what had happened. The mechanics were pissed that Ben had may have damaged their airplane and had given him an earful about it. He wasn’t in the mood for company, but Wim hung out with him because that was what was expected.
For lack of anything better to do some of the others had tuned into the Chinese German language radio broadcasts. The propaganda was always good for a laugh. Today was no different. The Chinese always depicted military actions as victories no matter what the outcome actually was. They were going off on how their Captain Zhao had foiled a trap set by the Luftwaffe and had found himself going head to head against an infamous German sky pirate called the “Black Knight.” It was a complete and utter load of crap. Ben gave it that much.
Wim looked stricken though.
“Don’t you know what is painted on the nose of our plane?” Wim asked, “A black knight.”
On the nose of their plane was a chess piece with the words Respice de Inferius! painted across it. That had meant something to the ground crew and Ben had let them do it because he had been unable to think of anything better.
21st June 1962
Over Tongsin, Korea
Ben was dimly aware of the flares and Düppel that was flying out the back of the airplane as he was trying to keep them alive by climbing right at the sun. Wim reacted like he always did in situations like this by leaning on the button that dispensed the countermeasures. He could see the red light that signified that there had been a launch as well as hearing Wim yelling in his ear about it.
It had started out simple enough, the Chinese had broken through at Jonchon and there had been a desperate scramble to stabilize the lines. The fact that the enemy had punched through the lines in a place that that was supposed to be impossible had inspired a great deal of cynical laughter. Assuming that your enemy couldn’t do something was asking to have your balls kicked up between your ears.
That was also perfectly in keeping with the current situation that Ben had found himself in.
Returning to the airfield after that horrendous conversation with Kiki had been difficult. He had seen a side of her that he had found deeply disturbing. Not that she was angry, rather she simply didn’t care and the way she talked about what he did… The Oberst in charge of SKG 18 must have caught wind of it somehow because he had told Ben to “Get his head back in the game.” Not the best choice of words because it echoed Kiki’s words about how this wasn’t a game. Something she ought to know because one of those who had to clean up the mess.
Today Ben’s Squadron had been assigned to provide top cover for SKG 15 with their planes configured for the air-to-role. What many considered the greatest strength of the Pfeil was that it had the range to loiter over a given region without need to refuel and the Goshawks couldn’t just wait them out.
That was why when the search radar had detected four Goshawks over the area of operations Ben and his wingman had been raced along an intercept vector. Wim had gotten target lock and Ben had fired at the same time his wingman had. Eight of the Hermelin missiles had raced out and as Ben watched, the Goshawks had scrambled to get out of the way. One of them was hit and tumbled out of the air but the others had flown right at them. The plane flown by Ben’s wingman had eaten one of the sidewinders seconds later and Ben had found himself alone facing three Goshawks in what amounted to a World War One style knife fight. The warning about never getting into a turning fight with a Goshawk applied here as he used the greater lift and engine thrust of the Pfeil to engage them separately using the advantages that he had.
He had managed to get one with one of the heat-seeking Speer missiles and another with the 30mm but that had given the third a chance to get a launch on him. He might have told Wim that the Düppel was useless against the missile in question. At what Ben thought was the right second, he rolled the Pfeil over as hard as he could into a tight loop and his vision narrowed down to a narrow point. There came a hard kick and the whole plane shuddered. As Ben rolled out of the loop, he caught the reflection of where the missile had exploded in the mirror mounted in the faring above the canopy.
The Goshawk that had launched it was headed right at them. The thought that occurred to Ben in that second was that the Chinese pilot was to aggressive and lucky to be allowed to get away. Ben slammed the throttle all the way forward and flew into a head on pass. Both planes passed within a couple hundred meters of each other but from Ben’s perception it felt like considerably less. He rolled into a tight turn deploying the spoilers to drop the speed and cut inside the Goshawk. He tried to get a deflection shot but the opposing pilot anticipated that and dove for the deck with Ben following closely. He got target lock with one of the Speer missiles only to see it go wide. A puff of black smoke revealed that he had strayed too close to the Chinese air defenses and he was getting targeted by AAA, so he was forced to break off.
Later, following debrief, Ben was sitting in the Officer’s Club at the airfield with Wim as they were still trying to process what had happened. The mechanics were pissed that Ben had may have damaged their airplane and had given him an earful about it. He wasn’t in the mood for company, but Wim hung out with him because that was what was expected.
For lack of anything better to do some of the others had tuned into the Chinese German language radio broadcasts. The propaganda was always good for a laugh. Today was no different. The Chinese always depicted military actions as victories no matter what the outcome actually was. They were going off on how their Captain Zhao had foiled a trap set by the Luftwaffe and had found himself going head to head against an infamous German sky pirate called the “Black Knight.” It was a complete and utter load of crap. Ben gave it that much.
Wim looked stricken though.
“Don’t you know what is painted on the nose of our plane?” Wim asked, “A black knight.”
On the nose of their plane was a chess piece with the words Respice de Inferius! painted across it. That had meant something to the ground crew and Ben had let them do it because he had been unable to think of anything better.
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I think this is one of the moments where english and german or better the play on words don't mix well.
While Kiki could very well have said "Das ist kein Spiel Ben" This is no game Ben.
Most german variations of get your head straight don't include the word game aka "Spiel"
Ben to technican/ground crew: "paint the damn plane black"
The Black Knight sounds good...
...so would the black baron...
...but both would mean copyright infringement.
Unfortunately, the Monty Python version of the "Black Knight" applies here as well.
Red or Black, a German fighter Ace is a German fighter Ace.
Of course, von Richtofen would be unhappy he's a bomber....
Nothing is fair when coming to the Red Baron....
Can't use "Dark Knight" either....you'd have Batman problems.
So, odds are he gets shot down, possibly, and rescued/treated by Kiki?
......hmmm. Didn't the Red Baron get shot/wounded and was nursed back to health by his then-nurse (turned wife in the ATL). That's how they met, didn't they?
Is this love-line actually inverting the Red baron?(granted its still male pilot/female nurse, but its female noble/male commoner)
Umm... Not ITTL, he is still kicking around and pushing conservation, being disappointed in his son Albrecht for joining the Navy and then surpassing him by being the first man in space, still wondering what his oldest daughter sees in that lummox that she married, and shooting anything that moves on his estate.
Have you like missed that he is a main character in at least 1/3 of this entire TL?
Like, the first post of this thread, on the first page, literally has the Red Baron as a POV character...