I could see P-M providing us with a couple of border incidents similar to what occurred in 1969 between the Soviets and the PRC or between the Soviets and the Japanese Kwantung Army at Lake Khasan in 1938. Not a full-fledged war but enough for the Chinese to see that the cost of trying to occupy the contested Korean land is too high.
Stupid Luck and Happenstance, Thread II
- Thread starter Peabody-Martini
- Start date
Part 89, Chapter 1383
Chapter One Thousand Three Hundred Eighty-Three
1st August 1960
Rural Chagang Province, Korea
Walking keeps you humble.
That was Father Lehmann’s perspective. It was a colossal bother for Kiki though. She was having to pack a considerable amount of medical supplies and a rifle as well because there were still bandits in these mountains. Kiki had welcomed the opportunity to leave the hospital. Over the previous days she had mostly boredom and reminders that frequently the most dangerous thing in the military was a nineteen-year-old behind the wheel of a lorry to deal with. Then there was that other thing that had happened the day before.
Lehman went unarmed for ethical reasons. He was here to treat wounds, not inflict them, he had said. However, he carried a heavier pack than Kiki did. As they walked down the trail, Lehmann was questioning her on that exact topic.
“So, this woman who you call your adopted aunt told you that women can’t afford to be too ethical?” Lehmann asked.
“What she actually said was that so long as the men are allowed to get away with behaving like savages, we have to be more ruthless just to survive” Kiki replied, “They don’t respect you if they aren’t aware of what you are capable of.”
“Did the events of yesterday have anything to do with that?”
“No” Kiki said with her voice flat, “I gave a peeping tom what he had coming. He was just lucky that I didn’t shove a knife through that hole he was cutting in the shower tent.”
“I had to wire his jaw shut and treat the broken nose you gave him” Lehmann said, “Kicking a man in the face while wearing hobnailed boots is no laughing matter. He was lucky that you didn’t blind him.”
“Do you see me laughing?” Kiki asked. She had caught a man trying to cut a hole through the side of the shower tent and as soon as his eye had appeared she had made certain that he had a great view, of the sole of her boot as it smashed into his face with only a layer of canvas to cushion the blow. The consensus around the field hospital and the Division was that the man had gotten exactly what he had coming to him. It had however done wonders for Kiki’s reputation among the men who surrounded her.
“No” Lehmann said, “I cannot imagination that you would find that funny.”
They kept walking in silence for a few minutes. This mission that they were on was a key part of maintaining the support of the local people to the presence of the Marine Division that had suddenly appeared in their back garden. Providing medical care for people in the farming villages. Lehmann tended to bring along one of the Nurses because half the people wouldn’t talk to him for obvious reasons. Kiki wasn’t a Nurse, but a Sani. He said that it didn’t matter because she had a job to do.
“I looked in your personnel file” Lehmann said after a spell.
“And?” Kiki asked.
“I was a bit surprised was all” Lehmann said, “Don’t see too many Orthodox Christians in the German Military.”
“My mother was Russian, exiled by the Revolution” Kiki replied, “That’s hardly a secret.”
“That is perfectly in keeping with a few things” Lehmann said, “Like your real name and title which are secrets, Fraulein Fischer.”
Kiki paused walking to give Lehmann a withering look, word of that was the last thing that she needed to get out.
“Keeping personal matters confidential is a large part of my job” Lehmann said, “As both a Doctor and a Priest. That is part of the reason why I brought this up here as opposed to where unfriendly ears might overhear.”
“I fail to see what that has to do with anything” Kiki said.
“General Schultz informed me of your identity last week when he passed through on that inspection tour” Lehmann said, Kiki remembered Tilo passing through. “He understandably takes a personal interest in your safety and well-being.”
It was all Kiki could do not to tell Lehmann that the next time Tilo asked to tell him to mind his own business. Instead, she just started walking again. Again, it was in silence. Which was a blessing.
Binz, Rügen Island
Many Zionists looked at what happened every year in Binz with considerable despair. They dreamed that the Jews of the world might one day return to the Holy Land to reclaim fabled Israel. Instead, most of the Jews in Europe were upwardly mobile and enjoying increasing social status as the old walls and prejudices that had existed had fallen by the wayside. The Jews of the world were not going to Palestine, but to places like Hamburg, Berlin, Warsaw and Prague where they enjoyed professional opportunity. It was the sort of life where going on an annual extended holiday to the seaside was something to be savored and enjoyed.
Aurora was reminded of this as she along with her family fought their way through the crush of people in the cavernous lobby of the resort complex called the Colossus of Prora. There was blue and white bunting everywhere, the staff certainly knew who their guests were and were shamelessly pandering to them. Anything to keep them coming back year after year. When she spotted a family that had clearly come from some distant corner of Eastern Europe wearing traditional clothes and having completely bewildered expressions on their faces, she had to laugh inwardly. These were people who had probably never been on a proper holiday before and it was very likely wherever they were from they were a tiny minority of the population. Imagine being deaf for your entire life and then suddenly you could hear Mozart.
“I got us our usual suite” Aurora’s father said as he came from checking in, “It has a great ocean view.”
Aurora wanted to groan when she heard him say that. He had been saying that joke every year for as long as they had been coming here. The way the resort was set up, almost every room had a great ocean view.
1st August 1960
Rural Chagang Province, Korea
Walking keeps you humble.
That was Father Lehmann’s perspective. It was a colossal bother for Kiki though. She was having to pack a considerable amount of medical supplies and a rifle as well because there were still bandits in these mountains. Kiki had welcomed the opportunity to leave the hospital. Over the previous days she had mostly boredom and reminders that frequently the most dangerous thing in the military was a nineteen-year-old behind the wheel of a lorry to deal with. Then there was that other thing that had happened the day before.
Lehman went unarmed for ethical reasons. He was here to treat wounds, not inflict them, he had said. However, he carried a heavier pack than Kiki did. As they walked down the trail, Lehmann was questioning her on that exact topic.
“So, this woman who you call your adopted aunt told you that women can’t afford to be too ethical?” Lehmann asked.
“What she actually said was that so long as the men are allowed to get away with behaving like savages, we have to be more ruthless just to survive” Kiki replied, “They don’t respect you if they aren’t aware of what you are capable of.”
“Did the events of yesterday have anything to do with that?”
“No” Kiki said with her voice flat, “I gave a peeping tom what he had coming. He was just lucky that I didn’t shove a knife through that hole he was cutting in the shower tent.”
“I had to wire his jaw shut and treat the broken nose you gave him” Lehmann said, “Kicking a man in the face while wearing hobnailed boots is no laughing matter. He was lucky that you didn’t blind him.”
“Do you see me laughing?” Kiki asked. She had caught a man trying to cut a hole through the side of the shower tent and as soon as his eye had appeared she had made certain that he had a great view, of the sole of her boot as it smashed into his face with only a layer of canvas to cushion the blow. The consensus around the field hospital and the Division was that the man had gotten exactly what he had coming to him. It had however done wonders for Kiki’s reputation among the men who surrounded her.
“No” Lehmann said, “I cannot imagination that you would find that funny.”
They kept walking in silence for a few minutes. This mission that they were on was a key part of maintaining the support of the local people to the presence of the Marine Division that had suddenly appeared in their back garden. Providing medical care for people in the farming villages. Lehmann tended to bring along one of the Nurses because half the people wouldn’t talk to him for obvious reasons. Kiki wasn’t a Nurse, but a Sani. He said that it didn’t matter because she had a job to do.
“I looked in your personnel file” Lehmann said after a spell.
“And?” Kiki asked.
“I was a bit surprised was all” Lehmann said, “Don’t see too many Orthodox Christians in the German Military.”
“My mother was Russian, exiled by the Revolution” Kiki replied, “That’s hardly a secret.”
“That is perfectly in keeping with a few things” Lehmann said, “Like your real name and title which are secrets, Fraulein Fischer.”
Kiki paused walking to give Lehmann a withering look, word of that was the last thing that she needed to get out.
“Keeping personal matters confidential is a large part of my job” Lehmann said, “As both a Doctor and a Priest. That is part of the reason why I brought this up here as opposed to where unfriendly ears might overhear.”
“I fail to see what that has to do with anything” Kiki said.
“General Schultz informed me of your identity last week when he passed through on that inspection tour” Lehmann said, Kiki remembered Tilo passing through. “He understandably takes a personal interest in your safety and well-being.”
It was all Kiki could do not to tell Lehmann that the next time Tilo asked to tell him to mind his own business. Instead, she just started walking again. Again, it was in silence. Which was a blessing.
Binz, Rügen Island
Many Zionists looked at what happened every year in Binz with considerable despair. They dreamed that the Jews of the world might one day return to the Holy Land to reclaim fabled Israel. Instead, most of the Jews in Europe were upwardly mobile and enjoying increasing social status as the old walls and prejudices that had existed had fallen by the wayside. The Jews of the world were not going to Palestine, but to places like Hamburg, Berlin, Warsaw and Prague where they enjoyed professional opportunity. It was the sort of life where going on an annual extended holiday to the seaside was something to be savored and enjoyed.
Aurora was reminded of this as she along with her family fought their way through the crush of people in the cavernous lobby of the resort complex called the Colossus of Prora. There was blue and white bunting everywhere, the staff certainly knew who their guests were and were shamelessly pandering to them. Anything to keep them coming back year after year. When she spotted a family that had clearly come from some distant corner of Eastern Europe wearing traditional clothes and having completely bewildered expressions on their faces, she had to laugh inwardly. These were people who had probably never been on a proper holiday before and it was very likely wherever they were from they were a tiny minority of the population. Imagine being deaf for your entire life and then suddenly you could hear Mozart.
“I got us our usual suite” Aurora’s father said as he came from checking in, “It has a great ocean view.”
Aurora wanted to groan when she heard him say that. He had been saying that joke every year for as long as they had been coming here. The way the resort was set up, almost every room had a great ocean view.
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Even if the Chinese are Nationalists and not Communists, both examples are useless in the current context.
Here, the Chinese neither both experienced OTL Korea, nor had the clear threat and knowledge of a Soviet Russia with both the numbers, the equipment and the crap load of Nukes to make China glow in the dark if Mao pushed past a certain point.
In the other case, what are the sodding odds of someone from the Kwantung Army, likely Chinese collaborators sharing their knowledge with the Nationalist Chinese? If they weren't killed during or after the war, they either ran to German protected Taiwan or to Japan in the few cases allowed ...
Here in a sense, Chiang Kai Shek or whoever is his successor, took the worst choice imaginable.
He and his supporters, likely distracted the internal pressures for a democratic aperture, as with the Communists gone or reduced to banditry in the far corners of China, and the Japanese "defeated" ,after 15 years, the reasons for the concentration of the political power in a sole party namely the Kuomitang, have ran thin, and even if not visible, likely there is pressure on ALL the parts of the Chinese Society.....and the Kuomitang leadership it's betting, likely with a quick War, to ignite the popularity of the Kuomitang and the national unity......
And Harriman, who unlike OTL, has an even WORSE understanding of the Asian and specially the Chinese Psyche, unknowingly gave to the Chinese the safety net in their minds to finally kick-start this potentially deadlier version of the Korean War....
... What now that I have ran some mental simulations..... Runs dangerous odds of be a mix of become an increasing conflict to the point of a 1963 Missiles Crisis, the Germans at one point discovering the movement of American nuclear weapons to their bases in China, and being forced to announce publicly this, and the Germans openly stating that unless the weapons were retired from Continental China, any use of Atomic weapons against the Republic of Korea, would be considered a direct aggression against the German Empire and its allies, and would be retaliated with a full scale use of Nuclear Weapons against the Continental US.....
A game of Chicken, one what the Americans lost, likely as the British, Russians and French turned their backs on the Americans, and the result pretty much putting the American mentality on "Them Vs the World".....
All good points, there is also one more thing to consider. The implications of a united democratic Korea sharing a border with China, who has always seen it as a potential rival.
Chaing Kai-shek is probably not respected on the world stage because of his actions during the war ITTL.
Only in the United States with its powerful China Lobby headed up by Time-Life publisher Henry R Luce is he respected and is given a platform.
With Mr. Luce's Pro-Republican agenda driving any debate over China and the Rockefeller Family Business ties to China, the American people are not getting the real story about what is going on over there and stories of corruption in the Chinese government is downplayed as German propaganda.
The Reason that the Harriman Administration is getting involved is to provide a market for American products in Arms and Agriculture in order to goose the economy before the election.
Only in the United States with its powerful China Lobby headed up by Time-Life publisher Henry R Luce is he respected and is given a platform.
With Mr. Luce's Pro-Republican agenda driving any debate over China and the Rockefeller Family Business ties to China, the American people are not getting the real story about what is going on over there and stories of corruption in the Chinese government is downplayed as German propaganda.
The Reason that the Harriman Administration is getting involved is to provide a market for American products in Arms and Agriculture in order to goose the economy before the election.
Fuuuuuu........
Seriously, Korea its a tiny part of the size of China and they see it as a Rival? Man, talk about one heck of a Superiority/Inferiority Complex there.
The worse its that the further that the conflict extends, most of my mental sims point to a potential Revolution/Democratization of China, as if things come to a Missile Crisis and the US quitting, the Kuomitang will likely collapse in favour of a Langist style party democracy, as likely after a sheer amount of losses, the Soldiers will refuse to shoot against their fellow Chinese in peaceful manifestations....
I'm not so sure that's too far from OTL to be honest. Nothing I can put my finger on or instantly provide empirical evidence of right now though. Aside from the man-made islands to stealth claim other countries territory.
I wonder what the Korean government is doing to end this crisis?
They have been given enough time to prepare extensive defenses, mobilize reservists, receive help from allies, and getting more supplies in.
There is no concession to China that will be acceptable to the Korean government and people and the only thing I can think that Korea will offer to China is vague promises to start hydroelectric projects on the Yalu River to provide cheap power to China.
The Korean government may misread the situation and try to provoke China in taking rash actions.
What is the League of Nations doing at this time?
The resort that Aurora is staying at was heavily subsidized ITTL by the German government under a program by Augustus Lang before the war to provide for dual use in case of war.
During the war it was used as a vacation spot for soldiers on limited leave to spend with their families, recuperation facilities for injured soldiers, training barracks for the KLM Auxiliaries among other things.
They have been given enough time to prepare extensive defenses, mobilize reservists, receive help from allies, and getting more supplies in.
There is no concession to China that will be acceptable to the Korean government and people and the only thing I can think that Korea will offer to China is vague promises to start hydroelectric projects on the Yalu River to provide cheap power to China.
The Korean government may misread the situation and try to provoke China in taking rash actions.
What is the League of Nations doing at this time?
The resort that Aurora is staying at was heavily subsidized ITTL by the German government under a program by Augustus Lang before the war to provide for dual use in case of war.
During the war it was used as a vacation spot for soldiers on limited leave to spend with their families, recuperation facilities for injured soldiers, training barracks for the KLM Auxiliaries among other things.
Part 89, Chapter 1384
Chapter One Thousand Three Hundred Three Hundred Eighty-Four
2nd August 1960
Russian frontier near Gomel, Belarus
Zella was staring at the ceiling above the narrow bunk she was sleeping in. The small windows that ran along the roof of the caravan were letting in beams of light that was shining on the inside of the curtain that enclosed her space. She could hear snoring from the bunk below hers. Hardly a surprise really, Gunter Mayer had been playing cards with the two other mechanics and her father the night before when Zella had gone to bed. There were four bunks and one tiny compartment in the caravan. The compartment had a bunk and desk in it. Zella, Gunter and the other two mechanics got the bunks and Zella’s father got the compartment. One of the perks of being the one in charge.
After a fast run across Poland and Belarus they had become mired in red tape on the Russian border. It seemed that the Russians were less than keen on a German Field Marshal crossing through Urals and Siberia, even a retired one. The result was that they had been waiting here for the last two days.
Fortunately for them, the People of Belarus remembered Emil Holz fondly as the liberator. So, they had been treated extremely well. The problem was that they had a timetable that they were supposed to be on and if they waited too much longer, they would fall behind. How many times had Zella’s mother told that sometimes she needed to put her ego aside and ask someone to do you a favor? Too many times to count. Her mother felt that Zella had too much pride to ask for help when she needed it and it had come with the observation that she must get it from her father.
Somewhat annoyed by her mother’s words echoing in her head so far from home she pulled the curtains open and climbed off the bunk. Getting hastily dressed, Zella stepped out of the caravan into the morning air. It was all farm country around here, so the pungent aromas of manure and dust were ever present. The gravel of the carpark crunched under the heels of her boots as she walked across it to the customs check point to the payphone mounted to the wall. Once she was on the phone with the Operator, Zella asked to be connected with the number that she had memorized because it had seemed like it was a good idea. She hadn’t realized that she would need it so soon.
When the Operator quoted the price that she would need to pay to finish the connection, Zella nearly swore aloud. It was highway robbery, but she fed the coins in anyway. Over the staticky connection Zella heard a couple rings and then a familiar voice answered.
“Hello Gia” Zella said, “I need your help.”
----------------------------------------------------------------
Later that morning, just after they had finished eating breakfast, the Supervisor of the Customs Office came to the caravan and told them that they had been cleared to enter Russia. Zella couldn’t help but notice that he was fidgeting and sweating heavily the entire time he was talking to them. Her father had not reacted to the Supervisor’s dyspeptic attitude over the past couple days because he was on holiday and he wasn’t going to let a fussy little man like that ruin it. Today he had a very different demeanor.
“I was also asked to pass this along to you” The Supervisor said nervously as he handed Zella's father a piece of paper.
Zella’s father read it and then looked at Zella with a great deal of suspicion.
“It seems that we’ve an invitation to a dinner party when we get to Moscow” Her father said.
Binz, Rügen Island
“Hey Aurora” A boy her age, who she did not know, said as he walked past the table where she was writing a letter to Kiki.
It was both an annoyance and something that she found incredibly flattering. It hadn’t been until she had arrived in Binz that she had become aware of how much time she had spent in the shadow on Zella and Kiki. How many times had she seen the reaction of men towards her friends? Dozens, if not hundreds of times. The two of them always treated such overtures with considerable disdain, while Aurora had been usually ignored. Matters certainly weren’t helped by Aurora’s tendency to dress plainly or Zella and Kiki more or less fitting what most of the society around them considered very attractive. Aurora was different though and as she had discovered, the standard of beauty among the guests of the Prora was different as well. Suddenly Aurora was “That nice Jewish girl” who their mothers insisted that they must go up and talk to, at least once, because you never know. There were also a considerable percentage who didn’t need that prompting.
“You’re a pretty girl” Aurora’s mother had said, “There is absolutely no reason you shouldn’t be popular with the boys.”
That caused Aurora’s father to give her mother a skeptical look. He could think of a few very good reasons.
As it had turned out, Aurora’s mother was no fool and she understood as well as anyone the realities of the resort. Every summer it became a small town where gossip was the coin of the realm. If Aurora talked too long with anyone it caused tongues to wag. Her mother also insisted that if Aurora did any of the activities in the resort then she need to take her younger brother and sister with her. And they dutifully reported everything that Aurora did during the day to her parents. Mostly without even having to be asked.
2nd August 1960
Russian frontier near Gomel, Belarus
Zella was staring at the ceiling above the narrow bunk she was sleeping in. The small windows that ran along the roof of the caravan were letting in beams of light that was shining on the inside of the curtain that enclosed her space. She could hear snoring from the bunk below hers. Hardly a surprise really, Gunter Mayer had been playing cards with the two other mechanics and her father the night before when Zella had gone to bed. There were four bunks and one tiny compartment in the caravan. The compartment had a bunk and desk in it. Zella, Gunter and the other two mechanics got the bunks and Zella’s father got the compartment. One of the perks of being the one in charge.
After a fast run across Poland and Belarus they had become mired in red tape on the Russian border. It seemed that the Russians were less than keen on a German Field Marshal crossing through Urals and Siberia, even a retired one. The result was that they had been waiting here for the last two days.
Fortunately for them, the People of Belarus remembered Emil Holz fondly as the liberator. So, they had been treated extremely well. The problem was that they had a timetable that they were supposed to be on and if they waited too much longer, they would fall behind. How many times had Zella’s mother told that sometimes she needed to put her ego aside and ask someone to do you a favor? Too many times to count. Her mother felt that Zella had too much pride to ask for help when she needed it and it had come with the observation that she must get it from her father.
Somewhat annoyed by her mother’s words echoing in her head so far from home she pulled the curtains open and climbed off the bunk. Getting hastily dressed, Zella stepped out of the caravan into the morning air. It was all farm country around here, so the pungent aromas of manure and dust were ever present. The gravel of the carpark crunched under the heels of her boots as she walked across it to the customs check point to the payphone mounted to the wall. Once she was on the phone with the Operator, Zella asked to be connected with the number that she had memorized because it had seemed like it was a good idea. She hadn’t realized that she would need it so soon.
When the Operator quoted the price that she would need to pay to finish the connection, Zella nearly swore aloud. It was highway robbery, but she fed the coins in anyway. Over the staticky connection Zella heard a couple rings and then a familiar voice answered.
“Hello Gia” Zella said, “I need your help.”
----------------------------------------------------------------
Later that morning, just after they had finished eating breakfast, the Supervisor of the Customs Office came to the caravan and told them that they had been cleared to enter Russia. Zella couldn’t help but notice that he was fidgeting and sweating heavily the entire time he was talking to them. Her father had not reacted to the Supervisor’s dyspeptic attitude over the past couple days because he was on holiday and he wasn’t going to let a fussy little man like that ruin it. Today he had a very different demeanor.
“I was also asked to pass this along to you” The Supervisor said nervously as he handed Zella's father a piece of paper.
Zella’s father read it and then looked at Zella with a great deal of suspicion.
“It seems that we’ve an invitation to a dinner party when we get to Moscow” Her father said.
Binz, Rügen Island
“Hey Aurora” A boy her age, who she did not know, said as he walked past the table where she was writing a letter to Kiki.
It was both an annoyance and something that she found incredibly flattering. It hadn’t been until she had arrived in Binz that she had become aware of how much time she had spent in the shadow on Zella and Kiki. How many times had she seen the reaction of men towards her friends? Dozens, if not hundreds of times. The two of them always treated such overtures with considerable disdain, while Aurora had been usually ignored. Matters certainly weren’t helped by Aurora’s tendency to dress plainly or Zella and Kiki more or less fitting what most of the society around them considered very attractive. Aurora was different though and as she had discovered, the standard of beauty among the guests of the Prora was different as well. Suddenly Aurora was “That nice Jewish girl” who their mothers insisted that they must go up and talk to, at least once, because you never know. There were also a considerable percentage who didn’t need that prompting.
“You’re a pretty girl” Aurora’s mother had said, “There is absolutely no reason you shouldn’t be popular with the boys.”
That caused Aurora’s father to give her mother a skeptical look. He could think of a few very good reasons.
As it had turned out, Aurora’s mother was no fool and she understood as well as anyone the realities of the resort. Every summer it became a small town where gossip was the coin of the realm. If Aurora talked too long with anyone it caused tongues to wag. Her mother also insisted that if Aurora did any of the activities in the resort then she need to take her younger brother and sister with her. And they dutifully reported everything that Aurora did during the day to her parents. Mostly without even having to be asked.
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Zella has more than her father’s touch then he is comfortable with.
If the resort that Aurora is at is anything like the OTL Catskills resorts her parents are practically like royalty and they are getting a nice price break if they are giving things like exhibitions, lectures, or classes at the resort.
If the resort that Aurora is at is anything like the OTL Catskills resorts her parents are practically like royalty and they are getting a nice price break if they are giving things like exhibitions, lectures, or classes at the resort.
It has now been just under four months since the Chinese-Korean crisis began and besides some posturing there has been no incidents that have been reported.
This may be the time for President Harriman to engage in some shuttle diplomacy, IOTL he was a very respected diplomat and in my mind filling up gaps ITTL I had him as the Ambassador to the Soviet Union as he was IOTL.
I had him in my mind negotiating the surrender of Moscow and then making a fast trip to Tokyo trying to convince the Japanese that this is their last chance to make a good peace deal with Germany and the Allies before the full weight of the Allies is available.
This will help him with the American voters back home if this work and if not at least he tried.
This may be the time for President Harriman to engage in some shuttle diplomacy, IOTL he was a very respected diplomat and in my mind filling up gaps ITTL I had him as the Ambassador to the Soviet Union as he was IOTL.
I had him in my mind negotiating the surrender of Moscow and then making a fast trip to Tokyo trying to convince the Japanese that this is their last chance to make a good peace deal with Germany and the Allies before the full weight of the Allies is available.
This will help him with the American voters back home if this work and if not at least he tried.
Are these suggestions? Or are you seriously trying to hijack the TL with your own preferences?
Because what YOU HAVE is not what the author HAS.
High chance he still goes to Britain as the Ambassador under Truman. Harriman could also have been the diplomat to Canada for all we know. GIven that there was no Tehran or Yalta or Potsdam meetings with Soviet Officials I doubt he necessarily would have followed the same influential posts or even close to it in OTL, because those are the three meetings that put Harriman into the Soviet Ambassadorship in 1946 of OTL.
Given that 1946 of this ATL is a year in which Dewey and Republicnas are in control, its unlikely that the Democrat Harriman is the Ambassador to the newly created Russian state.
Harriman may possibly still have some sort of position in the Lend-lease of this ATL, which Omar Bradley kinda lead, but it does not seem to have been as large an operation in this TL, so his influence is still small and on the minor side.
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Umm... No, and I am sorry that if anyone especially the author of this timeline thinks so.
This has been a very interactive timeline compared to others and I have not seen myself or others being smacked down by the author so far as it is his right to do so.
I am just following as close to possible the OTL career that Harriman had and he had a best selling book Mission to Moscow and giving all the irony that the author has thrown in, a book called Mission to Tokyo is right in line with this.
Once again I am sorry if I have stepped on anybody’s toes it was not my intention to do so.
That has all the indications for saber ratteling to me... so that is probably what PM wanted the Chinese to do. Posture for internal consumption and maybe gauge the international reaction to their actions...
Maybe he was or maybe he was not. We do not know. But to posit OTL onto this very long running TL is dangerous to get false positives. Because the USA of this TL is fundamentaly different then the OTL one.
Totaly unsubstantiated and contra to the TL as I understand it. Because the USA was very happy to sell to all sides in the conflict and why would they try to brocker a peace? So please tune down the importance of the USA in this TL a magnitude from OTL and do not press them into important positions at every move.
Now playing the peacemaker may go well in the USA, but the international comunity may have other things to say. Like how he, may or may not, stengthend the Chinese into this posture with his arms trading and support. And if he now paints himself as a neutral brocker that will not go well with the Asian sensibilities. And this will leak back into the USA as the industry and trade networks will know how importnat the other nations are in this. Other then in our own TL as the USA is very far from the behemoth it was here.
To be honest, I can somewhat understand "ejpsan". His position is very much projecting OTL USAmerican importance onto ITTL USAmerica. And that is Imo the sticking point we fall over. Because in OTL the USA got away with some shady stuff and was the ultimate power after WWII, at least until Europe and the USSR pulled themself out of the slump.
On the other hand, if one takes off the "Eagle shaped blinders"
p) one sees that the USA lost importance since the end of WWI. Becasue without the dismember ment of Germany, at the cost of France, Europe had a more stable and powerful center then OTL and that allowed Europe to pull itself out and build up a, Imo more stable system. At least we only heard about "petty squabbles" and not wars outside of the Greco-Turkish mess.
Part 89, Chapter 1385
Chapter One Thousand Three Hundred Eighty-Five
3rd August 1960
Binz, Rügen Island
There was a distinct absurdity to working while on holiday, but there was a reason why the Prora gave Aurora’s parents a discount on the suite they stayed in. In prior years her parents had done the photography that the resort used in its promotional material and while they were here, they held events like they were going to do today. It was an exhibition of her parent’s work. There was a subtle game played in how they arranged the photographs and it had to do with how nebulous the identities of Robert Capa and Gerda Taro really were. What got published under which name depended entirely on the subject. Originally, the name had been cooked up as a means to get photographs to be accepted by publications that would turn their nose up at the mention of names like Endre Friedmann and Gerta Pohorylle. Early on Aurora’s mother had published under the name Robert Capa as well, but that had ended as the two of them had become better known they had needed to come up with another name. Then events outside Madrid during the Spanish War had changed everything and had nearly ended the career of Aurora’s mother.
The term used was; High velocity artillery and aerial bombardment followed by armored exploitation. What that had meant in practice was that Gerda Taro had been left clawing at the earth in a small hole in the ground. All while the section of the front lines she had been photographing was heavily shelled, then divebombed and finally had Panzers roll over it. The Panzer Dragoon Grenadiers who had found her had not exactly been delicate in their treatment of her until they figured out that she was a Photojournalist as opposed to one of the Internationals fighting on the Spanish side. Afterwards, she had been sent home to Berlin because she had a “case of the nerves” as it was called in those days. That was before Traumatic Stress was understood well enough to even have a proper name for it, so it had taken her years to recover. It had been two years later, during that recovery that she had found herself pregnant with Aurora, right as a new war was getting ready to start.
That was why Aurora’s earliest memories were of the apartment in Paris where she had lived with her mother, her father was only able to visit occasionally because he was off covering the Second World War from the first shots fired on the Russian border until the signing of the armistice in Tokyo Bay. It had been nine months after a visit from her father just after the Soviet War had concluded that Aurora had suddenly discovered that she had a little brother named Yoni. Aurora’s sister Pia had been born nine months to the day that her father had come home from Japan.
Her mother had remained a photographer, but her choice of subjects had changed. Small things, slices of life and the little moments of pain and joy that existed in everyone’s life. Aurora, and later her other children were her favorite subjects, so thousands of people had watched her grow from a newborn baby to a teenager. It had made for an odd, awkward childhood. Especially because Aurora had turned out to be somewhat of an introvert.
Today, Aurora was helping her parents put up copies of their photographs that had been blown up to be poster sized on the walls of one of the exhibition halls with Yoni and Pia as she had done for as long as she could remember. Unlike her brother and sister, Aurora’s parents were allowing her to stay for the presentation and the reception afterward this year. Her siblings had immediately started complaining about that, but Aurora’s mother had said that they would be more than welcome as soon as they became adults like their older sister.
Montreal, Canada
Having her harpy of a daughter-in-law in her house was not Margot’s idea of a pleasant summer pastime, but she didn’t dare say a word. Over the winter, that book had come out and Margot had had avoided it for as long as she could but after everyone else in her social circle had read it she had opened it just so that she would have an idea of what everyone else was talking about.
The book had detailed page after page of shocking behavior. It had frankly described the events that had happened when Katherine was twelve which had left Margot aghast. That had included biting through her own lip when she didn’t want to answer another question. What had followed was a kaleidoscope of self-destructive behavior. Hopping trains, breaking into buildings and the system of tunnels that supposedly existed below the streets of Berlin, getting arrested on a few occasions, all before she turned fourteen. Getting recruited by German Military Intelligence at fifteen, she had a violent disagreement with one of her instructors and quit. Then she had abruptly reentered service at sixteen because of a national emergency. She had killed a terrorist and saved hundreds of lives in the process but had been left reeling by those events. The resulting publicity had ruined her value as an Intelligence Agent, but at the same time it had brought her to the attention of a shadowy Order that existed to advance the interests of the German Kaiserin.
Throughout the book were instances of extreme violence, unapologetically dealt upon perceived enemies. Something for which Katherine had been richly awarded for by the German State. Eventually becoming the only woman awarded the prestigious Pour le Mérite and commanding the elite First Foot Guard Regiment, but also achieving a rank equivalent to Brigadier before retiring. Supposedly, she had ended her career because she felt she was missing her out on the lives of her children, and she was tired of the constant demands. Margot only approved of one of those things. The specter of violence though, she had no idea beyond Malcolm’s cryptic warnings of exactly what Katherine was capable of. After the book had come out Malcolm had felt perfectly free to tell her that when Katherine had first come home with Douglas, his men had been making bets about how long it would be until Katherine murdered her and that she should be happy that little detail didn’t make it into Katherine’s biography.
Now, Douglas was home, Katherine and their children were with him. Margot did her best to avoid conflict with Kat, but she found the presence of Marie unsettling. The last time Margot had seen Douglas’ youngest daughter, she had still been a baby. Now, she was a quiet little girl who had been named after Margot’s mother, Douglas’ grandmother. The shape of Marie’s face, especially her jawline gave her a strong resemblance to Douglas, much like her siblings did. The trouble was that red hair, that was something that she could have only inherited from Katherine.
3rd August 1960
Binz, Rügen Island
There was a distinct absurdity to working while on holiday, but there was a reason why the Prora gave Aurora’s parents a discount on the suite they stayed in. In prior years her parents had done the photography that the resort used in its promotional material and while they were here, they held events like they were going to do today. It was an exhibition of her parent’s work. There was a subtle game played in how they arranged the photographs and it had to do with how nebulous the identities of Robert Capa and Gerda Taro really were. What got published under which name depended entirely on the subject. Originally, the name had been cooked up as a means to get photographs to be accepted by publications that would turn their nose up at the mention of names like Endre Friedmann and Gerta Pohorylle. Early on Aurora’s mother had published under the name Robert Capa as well, but that had ended as the two of them had become better known they had needed to come up with another name. Then events outside Madrid during the Spanish War had changed everything and had nearly ended the career of Aurora’s mother.
The term used was; High velocity artillery and aerial bombardment followed by armored exploitation. What that had meant in practice was that Gerda Taro had been left clawing at the earth in a small hole in the ground. All while the section of the front lines she had been photographing was heavily shelled, then divebombed and finally had Panzers roll over it. The Panzer Dragoon Grenadiers who had found her had not exactly been delicate in their treatment of her until they figured out that she was a Photojournalist as opposed to one of the Internationals fighting on the Spanish side. Afterwards, she had been sent home to Berlin because she had a “case of the nerves” as it was called in those days. That was before Traumatic Stress was understood well enough to even have a proper name for it, so it had taken her years to recover. It had been two years later, during that recovery that she had found herself pregnant with Aurora, right as a new war was getting ready to start.
That was why Aurora’s earliest memories were of the apartment in Paris where she had lived with her mother, her father was only able to visit occasionally because he was off covering the Second World War from the first shots fired on the Russian border until the signing of the armistice in Tokyo Bay. It had been nine months after a visit from her father just after the Soviet War had concluded that Aurora had suddenly discovered that she had a little brother named Yoni. Aurora’s sister Pia had been born nine months to the day that her father had come home from Japan.
Her mother had remained a photographer, but her choice of subjects had changed. Small things, slices of life and the little moments of pain and joy that existed in everyone’s life. Aurora, and later her other children were her favorite subjects, so thousands of people had watched her grow from a newborn baby to a teenager. It had made for an odd, awkward childhood. Especially because Aurora had turned out to be somewhat of an introvert.
Today, Aurora was helping her parents put up copies of their photographs that had been blown up to be poster sized on the walls of one of the exhibition halls with Yoni and Pia as she had done for as long as she could remember. Unlike her brother and sister, Aurora’s parents were allowing her to stay for the presentation and the reception afterward this year. Her siblings had immediately started complaining about that, but Aurora’s mother had said that they would be more than welcome as soon as they became adults like their older sister.
Montreal, Canada
Having her harpy of a daughter-in-law in her house was not Margot’s idea of a pleasant summer pastime, but she didn’t dare say a word. Over the winter, that book had come out and Margot had had avoided it for as long as she could but after everyone else in her social circle had read it she had opened it just so that she would have an idea of what everyone else was talking about.
The book had detailed page after page of shocking behavior. It had frankly described the events that had happened when Katherine was twelve which had left Margot aghast. That had included biting through her own lip when she didn’t want to answer another question. What had followed was a kaleidoscope of self-destructive behavior. Hopping trains, breaking into buildings and the system of tunnels that supposedly existed below the streets of Berlin, getting arrested on a few occasions, all before she turned fourteen. Getting recruited by German Military Intelligence at fifteen, she had a violent disagreement with one of her instructors and quit. Then she had abruptly reentered service at sixteen because of a national emergency. She had killed a terrorist and saved hundreds of lives in the process but had been left reeling by those events. The resulting publicity had ruined her value as an Intelligence Agent, but at the same time it had brought her to the attention of a shadowy Order that existed to advance the interests of the German Kaiserin.
Throughout the book were instances of extreme violence, unapologetically dealt upon perceived enemies. Something for which Katherine had been richly awarded for by the German State. Eventually becoming the only woman awarded the prestigious Pour le Mérite and commanding the elite First Foot Guard Regiment, but also achieving a rank equivalent to Brigadier before retiring. Supposedly, she had ended her career because she felt she was missing her out on the lives of her children, and she was tired of the constant demands. Margot only approved of one of those things. The specter of violence though, she had no idea beyond Malcolm’s cryptic warnings of exactly what Katherine was capable of. After the book had come out Malcolm had felt perfectly free to tell her that when Katherine had first come home with Douglas, his men had been making bets about how long it would be until Katherine murdered her and that she should be happy that little detail didn’t make it into Katherine’s biography.
Now, Douglas was home, Katherine and their children were with him. Margot did her best to avoid conflict with Kat, but she found the presence of Marie unsettling. The last time Margot had seen Douglas’ youngest daughter, she had still been a baby. Now, she was a quiet little girl who had been named after Margot’s mother, Douglas’ grandmother. The shape of Marie’s face, especially her jawline gave her a strong resemblance to Douglas, much like her siblings did. The trouble was that red hair, that was something that she could have only inherited from Katherine.
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Nothing like a Pavlovian reminder of the awareness that you pretty much have been kicking with the foot a nitroglycerin container for the last decade.....
It is interesting to see how Aurora is beginning to understand that her parents as being more then just her parents, to be sure she knew that her parents are famous photojournalists but to Aurora they were her parents but now seeing how their works are reaching others is putting them in a different context for her.
The same thing can be said about Margot after reading the biography of Kat, instead of seeing Kat as this disreputable, dishonest, unworthy mate of her son, she is finally realizing that she is lucky that Kat didn't "take care of her" permanently.
The same thing can be said about Margot after reading the biography of Kat, instead of seeing Kat as this disreputable, dishonest, unworthy mate of her son, she is finally realizing that she is lucky that Kat didn't "take care of her" permanently.