State Sucession/New States

Beowulf2005

I'm working on a TL where several new states (Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa) join the Union, and I'm considering a few issues.

1. DC Statehood - what would it take to turn the District of Columbia into an actual state?
2. City Secession - The Bay Area is decidedly further left than most of CA, so suppose that the people in the Bay Area get sick of the Governator bossing them around and decide to break away and declare the State of San Francisco (not an independent nation, just a state).
Also, what would it take to make New York City (and possibly the boroughs all the way to Queens) breaking away to become a state. Call it the State of Manhattan.
3. Giving statehood status to semi-independent entities - such as the Navajo Nation. The other reservations would be a stretch.
4. Statehood for US territories. This is kind of a FH scenario, so think forward not back. I'm thinking of making PR and the Virgin Islands one state to balance out the Hispanic/Anglo population, with Guam and Samoa taking the "smallest state" title from Rhode Island. Developing them to First World status.

And some slightly-weird issues that came to me as I wrote the previous ones down:
5. As-is states being broken down for administrative purposes - California possibly being broken down into North and South. I know it might take a change in geography, but...
6. Reunification of North/South states - the Carolinas, the Dakotas, Virginia and W. Virginia - probably ASB territory, but I just thought it was something to think about.
 

eschaton

AFAIK, for an existing state to be split, decomissioned, or merged, you need a majority in the entire statehouse to vote for it. Naturally, representatives outside of the regions which wished to leave didn't look too keenly on the loss of revenue, which is why it's never happened.

New states are a greater possibility, but nothing but Puerto Rico could currently be a state. DC is constitutionally barred, and the various pacific territories do not have enough population.
 

Phil D

Well, with regards to having entities like the VI, or American Samoa becoming states, that would be very difficult. I think that one reason is that a territory has to have a minimum population of 60,000, and places like American Samoa only have a population of about 20,000. So, barring major emigration from the 50 U.S. states to these places, it would be rather difficult to get these places to the level of statehood on their own. Maybe as a possibilty, you can have an FH where, say, Guam, American Samoa, and the Northern Marianas are combined into one administrative entity, or even joined together with Hawaii, created one American Pacific-region state. Perhaps the same could happen with the Virgin Islands and Puerto Rico. IIRC, they are right next to each other in the Caribbean. Hope this helps! :)

Phil
 

Bulldawg85

Texas

Actually, when Texas became a state in the 1800's they had it written in the treaty that they could split into up to 5 states.
 

eschaton

I'm aware of the Texas exception, but I'm under the impression that all of Texas would have to vote on a split up. EG, South Texas couldn't decide to go its own way without North Texas voting on it.

I'm surprised the Republicans haven't tried to split Texas. I would think if they made Texas into four or five states, it would pass fairly easily. One could be along the border and Mexican/Democratic leaning, and the others would be even more solidly conservative, and rack up a lot more control of the senate.
 

The Sandman

Banned
Shhh! Don't give them any more ideas! They're doing enough damage already with only one Texas under their control!
 

Phil D

Well,the Republic of Texas included parts of Present day New Mexico, Colorado, Oklahoma, Wyoming, and maybe Kansas, in addition to the state of Texas, so in a way, it's already been split once before from its larger territory as an independant nation. So I'm sure that the Republicans aren't that worried about splitting it up more, seeing as they're all in their pockets, except New Mexico, of course. ;)

Phil
 

Paul Spring

eschaton said:
I'm aware of the Texas exception, but I'm under the impression that all of Texas would have to vote on a split up. EG, South Texas couldn't decide to go its own way without North Texas voting on it.

I'm surprised the Republicans haven't tried to split Texas. I would think if they made Texas into four or five states, it would pass fairly easily. One could be along the border and Mexican/Democratic leaning, and the others would be even more solidly conservative, and rack up a lot more control of the senate.
Click to expand...

Fear that Texas would be divided into 4 or 5 states was one of the reasons that anti-slavery people opposed having Texas as part of the US way back in the 1840s. They were worried that the pro-slavery people would use this as a way to get domination of the US Senate. Ironically, a few years later most of those anti-slavery people became the original Republican party.
 

Bulldawg85

Democrats

And so would the Dems. Don't forget that just a few decades ago most southern Dems were segregationist and Klan sympathizers. After all, Sen. Byrd was very influential member of the KKK once upon a time. Now, all he says is that was a long time ago and things are different now.
 
Tucker Dwynn

Tucker Dwynn

... and then there are the others...

Jefferson (N. California & S. Oregon) http://jeffersonstate.com/jeffersonstory.html

E. Washington ( A bill gets put in every year. Every year it gets shot down)

N. Idaho

Upper Pennensula (of Michigan)

W. Kansas (This one was in the 1990's when they werent getting thier share of oil tax monies. They threatened to leave the state, and the state governement changed polices to make them happy)

Conch Republic http://www.conchrepublic.com/
 

David S Poepoe

Banned
eschaton said:
I'm aware of the Texas exception, but I'm under the impression that all of Texas would have to vote on a split up. EG, South Texas couldn't decide to go its own way without North Texas voting on it.

I'm surprised the Republicans haven't tried to split Texas. I would think if they made Texas into four or five states, it would pass fairly easily. One could be along the border and Mexican/Democratic leaning, and the others would be even more solidly conservative, and rack up a lot more control of the senate.
Click to expand...

I would think that this option is no longer open to them. Any treaty of annexation would have been null and voided by the Union occupation of Texas and the readmission of Texas as a state during Reconstruction.
 

Bulldawg85

Argument

I would think that this option is no longer open to them. Any treaty of annexation would have been null and voided by the Union occupation of Texas and the readmission of Texas as a state during Reconstruction.
Click to expand...

That's similar to the argument being made by the separatists down in TX. :eek:
 

wkwillis

Staten Island would make a nice state. Lots of people, etc. The problem is that in both the red states and the blue states the red areas are leaching off the blue cities. If the cities secede then the bluenecks and rednecks will have to get jobs in the cities and they don't want to do that.
Now there will be a window of opportunity for another fifty states to show up when the dollar renormalizes and all those jobs move to the flyover. The red areas and the red states in general will be making enough money that they can stand on their own two feet instead of constantly suckling off the red cities.
We may see California as eight states and Texas as five, Florida and New York as four, etc.
 

wkwillis

Raymann said:
Actually we'd just cut spending and taxes like a mug so we would bother to.
Click to expand...
Well, assuming that the New Democrats were running things and not the Republicans during the readjustment, they might well balance the budget. But I don't think so. Don't assume that the Republicans always say the opposite of truth. The Democrats used to have a reputation as the raise taxes, debt, and spending party before the Republicans took over that one when they got the Southern Democratic pork masters.
The Liberals could use the chance to get some pork for themselves for a change.
 
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