Spanish Intervention in Imjin War

White Lotus Chinese-Lamaistic United Mongol-Tibet Empire rivalry in the continent, while on the eastern seas the Korean navy reign supreme and Japanese having the second Sengoku period, and a Ming-loyalist exiled Chinese state in Luzon. I sense Koreans in SE Asia :D (not in context of Korean imperialism though, just that there will be rather many Korean visitors to the region as many as Japanese ones IOTL, though it seems likely that it will be more....)

Siberia will be interesting, too. With all that have happened, it will be NOT weird to see the Englishmen as the ultimate winner here..... :cool:
 
The Discovery of Torresia

In 1606, Pedro Fernandes de Queirós and his expedition in search of Terra Australis left the islands of La Austrialia del Espíritu Santo [Vanuatu] and made to sail to Manila[1]. Contrary winds pushed him west, and he mapped the southern coast of New Guinea while passing through the strait bearing his name. During this voyage, he caught a tantalizing glimpse of coastline to the south, but a contrary and ornery crew forced him to sail onwards. He arrived in the former Philippines, now the Ming colony of Jinshen, in early 1607. Though very nearly attacked by the new occupiers, there were sufficient Spaniards who had yet to be evacuated (and indeed some who had used personal connections with the local Chinese to dodge the eviction order) to allow the explorer to explain himself. He was advised to voyage follow a recent Siamese trading vessel back west toward Spanish Camboya [Cambodia]. After staying there for a time, he returned to Spain to find news of the disasters in the Pacific had preceded him by some time. In the wake of the losses in the Philippines, the reports of his discoveries were looked upon with greater favor than might otherwise have been the case.

The Spanish position in the Pacific was highly weakened, and the protectorate over Camboya was seen as volatile. It was seen as imperative for Spain to have a new colony in the Pacific, hopefully in a defendable position. Queirós was placed in charge of a serious expedition to settle the lands he had discovered, and to use these settlements as a base for his further explorations. His claims to have sighted the southern continent were not taken entirely seriously, but he was given the benefit of the doubt. Dispatched from Peru, he sailed with a veritable flotilla of ships. These colonists were largely drawn from those who had been unceremoniously ejected from the Philippines. The convoy reached the La Austrialia del Espíritu Santo islands in 1610 and founded the settlement there, known as Nueva Manila. Queirós, after a cursory attempt to secure the safety and security of the colony, set forth west in search of the southern land.

Queirós' expedition was a success. After setting sail west from Austrialia, he rode the Southern Equatorial current and then hit trouble as one of the ships was severely damaged on an shoal of the Great Barrier Reef. However, land had been sighted and the expedition spent several weeks there as they repaired the ship. Here were made encounters with the local inhabitants, who were seen as relatively peaceful and primitive, and Europeans were first exposed to the unique varieties of local wildlife, including canguros[2]. The ships sailed southward, charting the coast of the continent. Contact with the local inhabitants was made on a number of occasions, and much note was made of the eclectic and plentiful wildlife. Eventually, the expedition began to take a darker turn.

The history records are unclear on the exact events, but the general gist is that Torres was to return to Austrialia while Queirós continued his exploration. Here the quixotic explorer vanished from history. Some historians claim that there was a mutiny. Others that the ship ran aground. Regardless, Queirós was never seen again, while Torres returned to Austrialia in early 1612. Here, he discovered Nueva Manila to be on the verge of breakdown. The steep islands with unstable soils and little freshwater, had proved entirely unsuited to settlement, while the local inhabitants had proved extremely unhappy about the interlopers on their islands, and had attacked the fledgling colony. When news arrived of a vast land to the west, it was decided that it would be better to relocate there.

The new colony was settled at San Pedro Bay [3] and named Nueva Zamboanga, again after a city of the former Philippines. It was to become the first European settlement of the great southern continent of Torresia.

Pedro_Fern%C3%A1ndez_de_Quir%C3%B3s.JPG

Pedro Fernandes de Queirós, tragic discoverer of Austrialia, the Queirós Strait, and Torresia


[1] Queirós was separated from Torres by a storm IOTL, but this was butterflied away.

[2] By coincidence, the Spanish make contact with the same tribe that James Cook did IOTL, and the Guugu Yimidhirr word gangurru becomes the widely used terms for these animals in this timeline as well.

[3] OTL Moreton Bay, and named after Queirós' vanished ship. Though he lost the honour of naming the continent, he would be honoured in the naming conventions of many other Torresian geographical features later in history.​
 
Last edited:
Wel, we lost the philippines but got Australia... thta's something. And Ming Philippines is all kinds of awesome....


P.:S I hate to nitpick but it's "Australia" -from the spanish word "austral", which means exactly the same as it english version, "southern"- not Austrialia
 
I just found this time line and it's really good. I have no idea where it's heading but I have some questions: Is Francis Drake in China working for the Ming? Is this from OTL?

Also I would like to see what Europe is like. Spain must be alot worse off overall. Upsetting the Chinese galleons must have really thrown them off.

great TL:)
 
Australia is certainly much more defensible compared to Philippines. And at least it's still rather close to Indonesia..... It'll be interesting how the Dutch and Portuguese will take this soon or late.... :D Especially the latter ;)
 
P.:S I hate to nitpick but it's "Australia" -from the spanish word "austral", which means exactly the same as it english version, "southern"- not Austrialia

'Austrialia' isn't OTL Australia, it's OTL Vanuatu. Funnily enough, that's actually from OTL, it's taken from 'Austria'. I maybe should have made that clearly, but La Austrialia del Espíritu Santo is the name that Quieros used OTL. Later, those islands will simply be referred to as Austrialia.

Tobit said:
I just found this time line and it's really good. I have no idea where it's heading but I have some questions: Is Francis Drake in China working for the Ming? Is this from OTL?

Those were some cheeky butterflies keeping Francis Drake alive in time to hear of opportunities to mess with the Spanish in the Far East. Considering his Pacific career, I don't think it's impossible, but Drake was definately introduced for reasons of flavour :D

tobit said:
Also I would like to see what Europe is like. Spain must be alot worse off overall. Upsetting the Chinese galleons must have really thrown them off.

That's going to take some working out on my part, but the Spanish are going to largely get the galleon trade working up again, using Nagasaki as a port for a while. However, something much more significant is coming up to disrupt the silver trade soon enough...

Australia is certainly much more defensible compared to Philippines. And at least it's still rather close to Indonesia..... It'll be interesting how the Dutch and Portuguese will take this soon or late.... :D Especially the latter

For the time being, the Spanish and Portugeuse are still under a unified crown, so we might just see the Portugeuse peacefully coming to Torresia, possibly a few Jesuit missions.
 
That's going to take some working out on my part, but the Spanish are going to largely get the galleon trade working up again, using Nagasaki as a port for a while. However, something much more significant is coming up to disrupt the silver trade soon enough...

The Spanish in OTL declared state bankruptcy in 1557. The loss of the highly profitable Manila Galleons would probably destroy their finances even worse. I don't know if their empire would collapse, but it would be plausible, I think.
 
The loss of the Philippines was a tremendous shock to Spain, as the trade of Asian luxury goods (one of the most important sources of income for Spain) was almost entirely disrupted. The trade galleons sailing from Mexico could call into the Japanese port of Nagasaki, but as Japan also produced silver in large quantities Spain founded it's purchasing power comparatively reduced. Philip III, adamant not to be pushed out of Asia entirely, funded the settlement of the Austrialian islands (which would instead lead to the colonization of Torresia) and determined to get a strangehold grip on the protectorate of Camboya [Cambodia]. An initially shaky start in that kingdom had been bolstered by the arrival of a large number of Spanish colonial soldiers and administrators, late of the Philippines, who arrived en masse to Camboya in 1606 and 1607. Spanish control was well-established over the cities of Phnom Penh and the important port of Prey Nokor [1]. Unrest erupted amongst those who resented the Spanish presence in the 1610's, the response was the dispatchment of several Spanish tercios to the territory. Though this military formation was becoming outdated and obsolete in Europe, it proved sufficient in dealing with rebel Camboyans.

However, despite the readjustment of the trading routes, Spain was suffering from deep financial problems. Peace was made with the Dutch and English in 1609, but this was insufficient in resolving the financial burdens. The state excessively relied on Castile for taxes, there was no income recieved from Aragon, Portugal or the Basque provinces. The expensive expulsion of the Moriscos from 1609 to 1614 was a popular but economically counterproductive measure that cost Spain many of its most productive farmers and craftsmen. This campaign, by the privado Duke of Lerma, was the straw that broke the camels back in many ways. With so much of state income tied to mostly Genoese creditors and little discretionary spending left, Philip III had little choice but to default on his loans in 1615. The Duke of Lerma lost influence, and in his place came Baltasar de Zúñiga and his nephew, Gaspar de Guzmán y Pimentel, 1st Count-Duke of Olivares, who would later become prime minister under Philip IV.

The Genoese banking houses, like those of the Fuggers before them, were thrown into chaos, and they permanently withdrew from dealings with Spain. As Spanish credit crumbled, Philip III was influenced by Zúñiga and Olivares in various ways. It was seen as necessary to arrest the economic, spiritual and social decline of Spain, and to successfully bind the various kingdoms together. To this end, a new series of taxes began to be applied to both Portugal and Aragon, which fell particularly heavily on the shoulders of Portugeuse merchants. These new tax and centralization policies caused great dissent, and eventually led to revolts in Portugal and Catalonia. The revolt in Portugal saw the murder of the viceroy arrival of Manuel of the House of Aviz-Beja on a Dutch ship, who was proclaimed king by the rebels. The Portuguese Restoration War had begun, while in Bohemia another conflict had been unleashed that would see the beginnings of a vast European conflict.

[1] OTL this city became known as Saigon.
 
Last edited:
I altered the ending of the last post, as I decided that a speedy defeat for the Portuguese and a continuing Iberian Union is much less logical and not as interesting as an earlier Portuguese Restoration War. In general, I think I'm going to delay the European updates, though, as the main focus is East Asia and I have to get my head around the complexities of European politics in this period first :eek:
 
Japan's Imperial Wars

l.aspx

The Imperial Wars saw extensive use of European-style weapons by both sides

Japan's unstable political situation continued for a number of years, as no one clan was able to claim advantage. The Toyotomi clan began to pale, while regional conflicts in the north and in Kyushu flared up regularly. Religious instability increased as in some domains Christian missionaries were given positions of authority, in others merely tolerated, and in yet others subject to exile or execution. It was in this mileau that the Emperor later known as Go-Jimmu was born in 1622, as Prince Takihito of the Emperor Go-Mizunoo and a daughter of the Toyotomi clan [1]. Young Takihito spent most of his childhood in the city of Osaka, where he was close to Hideyori. Unlike his aesthetically-oriented father, who spent much of his life working on the reconstruction of the Imperial city of Kyoto and creation of vast new palaces and gardens, Takahito from an early age took a martial bent.

In the 1640's, Takahito honed his military skills in Honshu intraclan feuding, aligned always with the Toyotomi and Mori clans. In this way, he began to make strong political connections, but also enemies. Takahito planned to make allies among the powerful clans, and upon ascension to the Imperial throne to sent about a Restoration of imperial power. There was no powerful shogunate to oppose him, but by the late 1640's a number of powerful clans had aligned together to oppose these ambitions of Restoration, the most important of which were the Kuroda and Kobayakawa clans of Kyushu, and the Date and Mogami clans of the north. These clans manipulated Go-Mizunoo and prevented him from relinquishing the throne on several occasions, and also supported young Tsuguhito[2], the prince born of Go-Mizunoo and a lady-in-waiting in 1634, as their candidate for the next emperor.

An assassination attempt in 1656 compelled Takahito into action, and he raised an army in southern Honshu. His political ambitions were backed by the force of most of the Honshu clans, and his military knowledge was sound. His enemies, meanwhile, were divided in their centres of power. Quickly he siezed Kyoto and placed most of the Imperial family under his care, while Tsuguhito fled to the north. He was proclaimed Emperor Go-Jimmu in 1558 in the rebuilt garden and canal city of Kyoto. This, however, was to be the height of his good fortune. His ambitions of unifying Japan under his rule would be foiled by the intervention of another young emperor: the Joseon Sejagun, later known as Emperor Myeongjo.

Born in 1598 as the son of then prince Gwanghaegun (and later Emperor Cheonjo) and Royal Noble Consort Mun of the Yu clan with the personal name of Yi Jil, the Sejagun was born into a victorious royal household. Growing up watching his father claim victories over the Japanese, Mongols and Dutch, he was schooled in early life by the Jesuit Johann Schreck, who had fled to the Joseon after the fall of Beijing to the Bailian, who instilled in the young prince an interest in the science and engineering of the West if not it's faith. After the death of Cheonjo in 1641, the Sejagun was proclaimed the Joseon king, but events soon took a new turn. The Liaodong peninsula, a protectorate under the Joseon, was invaded by the Bailian. Many of the nobles in Seoul pushed to simply submit to the Bailian as to the Ming before, but the Sejagun sought glory.

Allied with the Southern Ming, the Joseon professional army held onto the Liaodong peninsula against multiple attacks by the Bailian. The Bailian numbers were much larger, but their military policy was schizophrenic and perpetually distracted by their moves against the Ming in the south. It took, however, an alliance with the new Mongol khan Ejei Khonggor in 1648 to finally force the Bailian to relinquish control of the Liaodong peninsula. In this new political climate, it was decided that the earlier policy "Deferring to the Great", where Korea paid tribute to the Chinese, was outdated. The cultist Bailian had been defeated and the Ming were on the verge of defeat in the southern China. The Ming Emperor of Jinshen, ruling from Haejing [Manila], was seen as an ally and trade partner but not a superior. The Sejagun, in an expression of his personal power, declared himself the first emperor Myeongjo [3] of the Cheon "Heavenly" Empire.

Myeongju viewed the Imperial Wars in Japan with some concern. It was considered that Japan must be kept disunited, as the temporary unity by Toyotomi Hideyoshi had to the traumatic invasion of Korea. With Korea's western frontier with the quixotic Bailian maintained by a strong alliance with the Mongols, it was considered important to prevent a strong Japan from emerging to the east. The Cheon had positive political relations with the Kuroda clan of Kyushu, and through these links made positive contact with the anti-Imperial clans in the south of Japan. In 1664, Cheon armies landed in Honshu in an unexpected attack to the flank of a vast Imperial army marching south to engage the Kuroda and Kobayakawa clans. As Imperial reinforcements were tied up by attacks from the Date and Mogami, the bulk of Imperial forces were annihilated, and Go-Jimmu killed by Korean cannon fire.

The aftermath was complicated. No single clan possessed the power to dominate, and the Imperial Family had been annihilated. Most of the Imperial Family had been killed, and succession was the subject of a great deal of controversy. Most of the clans despised the presence of Cheon armies on Japanese soil, and a number of pro-Imperial clans had not been completely defeated. In addition, the Imperial wars had had a significant element of inter-religious warfare, mostly centred on Christian and anti-Christian elements. Temples, shrines and churches had been burned, and Christians and followers of Japanese syncretic Shinto and Buddhism had been massacred. Religious feuding threatened to destabilize the nation permanently, and many saw this as a prelude to the complete domination of the country by the Cheon, as well as European interests.

The system of government that was devised was influenced heavily by Jesuit advisors, despite the anti-Christian prejudices of many of the clans. The new system was based significantly on the Holy Roman Empire, though more in it's theory than it's actual practice, as well as the concept of cuius regio, eius religio, in which the ruler of a region would decide upon its religion. The Emperor became decided by an elective monarchy, in which the leading anti-imperial daimyo, namely the Kuroda, Kobayakawa, Date, Magumi, Maeda and Kikkawa, became Senkyo, or Electors, of the Emperor of Japan. The position was to be rotated amongst the Senkyo families initially, in order of seniority, over the course over every ten years. In practice the Kuroda clan, seen as agents of the Cheon, were intrigued against by the other clans, and the first Emperor was elected of their rivals the Kobayakawa in 1666. In the future, the city of Kyoto where the Japanese Diet would meet once a decade would became a den of intrigue against the stunning backdrop of the imperial villas and gardens, but the Sengoku period of perpetual warfare was over.

[1] Name taken from OTL, but an ATL character with a different mother, birthdate and childhood than the Takahito of OTL.

[2] As above, but closer to his OTL equivalent.

[3] The first character 'Myeong' is the same as the Chinese 'Ming', as a reference to the former dynasty. The possibility of a resurgence by the southern Ming was still considered as a possibility, and it was considered a suitable reference to the former 'big brother' nation of Joseon.
 
Last edited:
I altered the ending of the last post, as I decided that a speedy defeat for the Portuguese and a continuing Iberian Union is much less logical and not as interesting as an earlier Portuguese Restoration War. In general, I think I'm going to delay the European updates, though, as the main focus is East Asia and I have to get my head around the complexities of European politics in this period first :eek:

The tax raises caused two rebellions, in Portugal and Aragon. OTL, and in most timelines, Aragon lost the rebellion and Portugal won, so it gained independence.

In the timelines where that does not happen, the Iberian Union survives... so it would be interesting if on TTL Portugal lost and Aragon won: "Spain" will be the western part of the Peninsula instead of the eastern...

And it also has interesting repercussions. Napoles (and indeed all of Italy) was on Aragon's sphere of influence, so a considerable part of Spain's European troubles are gone (not all; the netherlands are still there). Castille has the Americas, and Portugal the atlantic routhes and Asia. Together they could put far more emphasis on the Empire instead of the European hegemony attemps then eventually ruined Spain
 
The tax raises caused two rebellions, in Portugal and Aragon. OTL, and in most timelines, Aragon lost the rebellion and Portugal won, so it gained independence.

In the timelines where that does not happen, the Iberian Union survives... so it would be interesting if on TTL Portugal lost and Aragon won: "Spain" will be the western part of the Peninsula instead of the eastern...

And it also has interesting repercussions. Napoles (and indeed all of Italy) was on Aragon's sphere of influence, so a considerable part of Spain's European troubles are gone (not all; the netherlands are still there). Castille has the Americas, and Portugal the atlantic routhes and Asia. Together they could put far more emphasis on the Empire instead of the European hegemony attemps then eventually ruined Spain

It would be interesting...but it seems like it might become too complicated. How likely was Spain to allow Aragon to break away at this stage, with all the financial difficulties? Portugal funded it's revolution through it's spice trade, where would Aragon get the funds or the manpower to break away? Though to us it might be better for the Spanish to remove themselves from European squabbles, to the powers that be at the time, such a scenario would have been unthinkable.

Still, if you could pull it off, that kind of scenario has enough traction for a timeline of it's own. But as for me, I have my own ideas for the Spanish Empire and survival thereof which will be coming soon, and I'd like to introduce Portugeuse-Spanish-Dutch three-way rivalry in the East Indies as a factor.
 
Imperial Family annihilated and a Holy Japanese Empire !! :eek:

But I doubt Imperial family would've been annihilated, since the anti Imperial faction also had their candidate for (puppet) emperor. While of course I don't know how to realize HRE system in Japan with the imperial family still present but I think you would need more than just handwavings to oust them away. They had been far to important of a role in Japanese society for that, even with being de facto powerless. Again, it's not like it's not possible but if foreign invaders would be doing the Imperial Family ousting themselves, it won't be a very smart move to keep Japan disunited, though it's not like Japan can stay united after they kicked out the invaders.....

The main concern for me here is the details regarding the annihilation of Imperial Family, which hasn't been explained. But maybe you will cover it in the later installment(s) ?
 
A good point. A fair amount of the supporting infrastructure for the Imperial Family was wiped out during the Sacking of Kyoto by the Ming-Joseon, so that would have been an early contributing factor. But how about this: support for Tsuguhito by the anti-Imperial factions makes Takahito paranoid, and he has his siblings murdered. He considered himself the founder of a new dynasty, hence his regal name, Go-Jimmu, a reference to the mythical first Emperor of Japan. Though with all the sons and daughters of Go-Mizunoo dead, there remain the successors of Go-Yozei who can claim the throne.

Different successors are backed by different clans. Perhaps I could retcon it so that, while the Emperor is chosen from the traditional Imperial Family, a new Emperor is selected by the Senkyo families every ten years (or earlier in the case of the death or abdication of an Emperor.) This might be a more plausible development.
 
Colonial Exploits of the early 17th Century

After the loss of the Philippines, the Spanish placed ever-increasing emphasis on their control of Camboya, which they initially rule through puppet kings. They successfully repressed both domestic dissent and foreign attacks, originating from Ayuthaya in the west and the Nguyen lords in the east. The Nguyen lords were friendly with the Portugeuse, who set up a trading post at Hoi An and began to produce bronze cannons for the Nguyen. Since 1600, the Nguyen lords of south Vietnam had refused to obey the edicts of the Lê emperor in Hanoi (who was a puppet of the northern Trinh family) and affected autonomy. Combined with Nguyen encroachment on traditionally Khmer lands led to an alliance between the Spanish Camboyans and the Trinh family. War was declared by the elderly Trinh Tung as a way to distract attention from a successor controversy in 1622, and though initial Trinh attacks failed, a Spanish push in the south caused chaos among the Nguyen. Previously, the Spanish had seen the Nguyen as a Portugeuse ally and therefore an indirect friend of Spain, but as the Portugeuse Restoration war erupted in Europe such considerations were put by the wayside. By 1630 the Nguyen had been destroyed, and Spain had reclaimed the former lands of the Khmer empire, as well as Champa territories that had been under the rule of the Nguyen. Vietnam extended as far south as the Phu Yen province, and for the next few decades lived in peace with their neighbours, though the Lê lasted not a generation longer before the Trinh abandoned their fiction and declared themselves the true Imperial family of Vietnam.

The 1620's saw a series of woes for the Portugeuse, as the Dutch and Spanish began an informally allied program to clear them from Asia. The Portugeuse held on in Japan, Korea and China, partially due to the protection of local powers (or at least the disapproval of those powers to European wars entering their domains). However, the China-Japan trade had at this point become homogenous with the arrival of the Dutch, English and Spanish, as well as the expansion of Japanese and Jinshenese trade. Meanwhile, Malacca fell to the Acehnese in 1629, owing to some extent to Spanish support out of Camboya. This support was not condoned by the Spanish crown, as it represented a Muslim victory of Christians in the important pepper routes, but rather was an adventure of a group of self-styled conquistadors from the Cham territories of Spanish Camboya. The Acehnese now controlled the most important trade route in the world, but the Spanish came into possession of Johor. These events isolated the Portugeuse trading posts in the Far East, but Portugal still maintained control over it's ports on the Indian subcontinent for the time being, defeating the kingdom of Kandy in Ceyloa [1]. Many Portugeuse navigators and shipwrights began to find employment in Korean vessels instead, which would become significant later.

During this period, the Dutch saw success against the Portugeuse in South America and Africa. From their base at Mauritsstad [2], the Geoctroyeerde Westindische Compagnie were able to push the Portugeuse out of the valuable sugar country in Brazil. Opposition in the countryside continued as a war of attrition for decades, but the GWC position strengthened over time while the Portugeuse were cut off from support from Europe as the Restoration War raged. The Dutch captured Portuguese possessions in Africa, siezing Elmina and securing control of Angola with the help of Queen Nzinga of the Ndonga kingdom. By 1640, the GWC was firmly in control of both the sugar and slave trades, and had occupied the Caribbean islands of Sint Maatren, Curaçao, Aruba and Bonaire in order to guaratee access to the islands' salt-pans. This created a triangular system of trade that was immensely profitable for the Dutch, and thus distracted from other Dutch interests in Asia and North America. This helped to ensure the survival of at least a portion of the Portugeuse colonial empire which continued to provide the funds for the Restoration War, while allowing for competitors to begin to dominate in those markets.

[1] Distractions and butterflies have allowed the Portugeuse to do better in Sri Lanka, defeating the Sinhalese and expelling the Dutch.

[2] Not Recife as in OTL, but rather Salvador de Bahia, which was captured earlier and successfully held.
 
White Lotus Chinese-Lamaistic United Mongol-Tibet Empire rivalry in the continent, while on the eastern seas the Korean navy reign supreme and Japanese having the second Sengoku period, and a Ming-loyalist exiled Chinese state in Luzon. I sense Koreans in SE Asia (not in context of Korean imperialism though, just that there will be rather many Korean visitors to the region as many as Japanese ones IOTL, though it seems likely that it will be more....)

Siberia will be interesting, too. With all that have happened, it will be NOT weird to see the Englishmen as the ultimate winner here.....
There should be two states in Luzon, one chinese and one Islamic.
 
There should be two states in Luzon, one chinese and one Islamic.

There wouldn't be enough Muslims in Luzon to support one. There is possibility for Muslim states to emerge in Mindanao and other parts of the south, but as Jinshen doesn't persecute Islam as the Spanish did, there may not be enough incentive to break away.
 
There wouldn't be enough Muslims in Luzon to support one. There is possibility for Muslim states to emerge in Mindanao and other parts of the south, but as Jinshen doesn't persecute Islam as the Spanish did, there may not be enough incentive to break away.

There would, borneans were sending missionaries there and the philippines in general has a whitewashed history.
 
Last edited:
So? That doesn't automatically translate into a Muslim state in Luzon. Catholics are going to continue to make up a large, though shrinking segment of the population, while there is going to be an increase in the number of Buddhists. Indigenous beliefs will probably be able to flourish under Jinshen rule as well.

That said, looking into it, it's looking probable that Mindanao is going to be dominated by the Sultanate of Maguindanao. Islam is certainly going to spread into the Visayas and Luzon through missionaries and trade, but I don't see an Islamic state developing there. Not unless the political and religious circumstances change.
 
So? That doesn't automatically translate into a Muslim state in Luzon. Catholics are going to continue to make up a large, though shrinking segment of the population, while there is going to be an increase in the number of Buddhists. Indigenous beliefs will probably be able to flourish under Jinshen rule as well.

That said, looking into it, it's looking probable that Mindanao is going to be dominated by the Sultanate of Maguindanao. Islam is certainly going to spread into the Visayas and Luzon through missionaries and trade, but I don't see an Islamic state developing there. Not unless the political and religious circumstances change.

There were no large population of Catholics during the early 16th century, Luzon was only majorly catholic in the mid 17th century, while islam in 'Luzon' was stopped because of the defeat of Brunei by the spanish during the end of 16th century and Manila was a satellite of Brunei's Empire, any defeat of the spanish means that Brunei would regain Manila, a bruneian-jinshen war will be interesting.
 
Last edited:
Top