Yeah. She didnt want to bring even the dirt of it with her.I remember hearing that the day Carlota left Brasil she made a great show of beating the dust off her shoes in front of an entire crowd of Brasilian onlookers.
Yeah. She didnt want to bring even the dirt of it with her.I remember hearing that the day Carlota left Brasil she made a great show of beating the dust off her shoes in front of an entire crowd of Brasilian onlookers.
It is a pretty big difference TbfDo you really think people of our backwards swap care about that difference?
I imagine, but it's not like everyday people are aware of it.It is a pretty big difference Tbf
Here they might end up being like Joao VI of Portugal - who isn't remembered as a very inspiring or even great king in Europe, but the opinion of him in Brasil is different AIUI
The stupidity of the human race never fails to amaze. TrulyFor those that actually take their time to learn about João VI he is well regarded, sadly there are many myths about him and many people believe those. Worse, many people that should know better, like teachers, still believe in those myths, or if they don't believe still spread them as truth. For example there is a myth that he was a gluton that ate everyday three chickens in the breakfast and saved what he wasn't able to eat in his pocket for later, the last part doesn't even make any sense, but many people still unironically believe it.
Yeah, US around new world era is not beating Spanish empire...they will likely be in a tenuous peaceI've always wondered how the relationship with the US develops. I can't see Americans not moving into the south west, but on the other hand I'm not sure if the US could beat the Spanish Empire in a war. The state of the Spanish navy probably is the deciding factor.
Butterflies mean one can't simply apply OTL to TTL.@VVD0D95 and I were just discussing an interesting point: if the Spanish court is in the New World around this time, does New Spain send delegates to the Cadiz Cortez like OTL?
It will be hard for the Cortes to gain the sympathy of Great Britain, they are going to lack legiticamy, they will look too much revolutionary, and Britain will probably content themselves with opening the Latin American markets to their trade, like they did with Brazil. It is also easier to influence a single desperate person (the king) than tens to hundreds of deputies, most of which will be representing merchant classes that are more interested in maintaining the colonial pact.Of interest here is the action of Britain. Britain may have to back the Cortes if the Cortes is key to winning the Peninsular War. They may force the hand of the Bourbons. Britain, being Master of the oceans, can interfere with the ability of the Crown to run a colonial empire, if the Crown doesn't compromise with the Cortes. Britain can also force the hand of the Cortes, because this situation is ripe for Britain to break the colonial sphere from Spain, either attached to New Spain, or severed in independence.
She would lose any semblance of legitimacy.Speaking of Carlota, would this still exist because I'm still amazed that there was a movement to randomly give an infanta/queen consort most of South America south of Brazil.
Carlotism - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
I guess if the entire Spanish court makes it to the New World then there would be no demand for this position, huh.
has absolute monarchy gone away in this TTL? We don't know that a Cortes has been called, or instituted a liberal constitution.What would happen if, while ruling Spanish America from Mexico City or something, Ferdinand were to try and re-instate absolute monarchy, like happened iotl after the PW? Would that not piss off elites in Buenos Aires or Lima just as it did iotl, leading to continued independence revolts?
Another problem for Carlota was her husband, because he wanted an "annexation" of Argentina by Brazil instead of a temporary "royal union" (if Carlota proclaimed that the throne of Argentina would be inherited by a 2nd son or daughter it would be better received).She would lose any semblance of legitimacy.
There wasn't really a movement for this. She made a lot of claims, but had very limited support. She was an absolutist, while most of Argentina leaned constitutionalist figurehead monarchy, if they leaned monarchist at all.
My understanding is that Joao discouraged the attempt. He wanted, and got, Uruguay. He also desired, but did not push for, Entre Rios/Corrientes/Missiones. Later on, when there were thoughts of putting Carlotta's cousin (? without looking it up again, I believe it was the orphaned son of Gabriel, brother of Carlos IV, who was living with the Braganzas) on a theoretical throne of Argentina, Joao counseled him against pursuing it.Another problem for Carlota was her husband, because he wanted an "annexation" of Argentina by Brazil instead of a temporary "royal union" (if Carlota proclaimed that the throne of Argentina would be inherited by a 2nd son or daughter it would be better received).
Carlota's claim to the possible throne was (rightly) perceived as a possible Brazilian annexation of Argentina. The Emperors of Brazil were not subtle with their wishes.
I also remember that the British interfered (in favor) in the agreement between Argentina and Carlota, but British diplomacy played against the Spanish Infanta.
Not really? Sure that was what some Cortes definitely said and that was how the early revolutionaries definitely wanted to be perceived but in reality the wars were born out of the want for change in the empire, socially but far more importantly than socially.IIRC wasn't most of the OTL Latin American Wars of Independence born from them being staunchly loyal to the Borbons rather than the Bonaparte government in power. So why does everyone act like the Spanish Borbons' goose iscooked already? .
Wasn't upper Peru and parts of Mexico/New Granada basically "monarchist central" though. Mean, Mexico wanted a personal union with Spain first AFAIK, then they wanted a Spanish infante and finally they were willing to take some descendant of a Spanish king (the duke of Teschen; Maximilian of Austria; the prince of Salerno) as a monarch. Ecuador and Peru tried to enthrone Queen Isabel II's half-brother in the 1840s. Dominica asked to be taken back into the empire. None of this sounds like a "questionable" monarchical sentiment. Rather, it sounds like there was certainly a large enough minority who held those sentimentsAnd the whole "Staunch Loyalty" is very very questionable, they took control under the pretext of not wanting a Bonaparte, but they never really gave a fuck about the monarchy or even gave much to help the war in Spain, and in a lot of places the intent was to take control of the colony through the Cortes and then leverage that power so they could get the reforms they wanted, and even then in places like Argentina there was most definitely an independentist streak,
That's very debatable, the often claimed to be highly monarchist upper Perú had at many points rebellions and was prone to a lot of political instability which translated directly to it not being able to send troops to put down the rebellions up north and barely being able to send help to the royalists in Peru, so it was monarchist in that it didn't rebel completely but there definetly was enough monarchist sentiment as to defeat these rebellions, it also should be noted many isn't rebel due to the memory of the fate of Tupac Ahmaru II being relatively recent.Wasn't upper Peru and parts of Mexico/New Granada basically "monarchist central" though. Mean, Mexico wanted a personal union with Spain first AFAIK, then they wanted a Spanish infante and finally they were willing to take some descendant of a Spanish king (the duke of Teschen; Maximilian of Austria; the prince of Salerno) as a monarch. Ecuador and Peru tried to enthrone Queen Isabel II's half-brother in the 1840s. Dominica asked to be taken back into the empire. None of this sounds like a "questionable" monarchical sentiment. Rather, it sounds like there was certainly a large enough minority who held those sentiments
Slavery plain and simple, Miranda and Bolívar were abolitionistthese places had been noted even before the wars of independence as incredibly royalist and this was seen as a rather strange thing.