Spain Joins the Axis: What is its fate?

[Santo Nombre]

Not only Gibraltar but also the Canary Islands and the Balearic Islands will be ceded to Britain

Equatorial Guinea is divided between France and Portugal

Western Sahara, Avni, Spanish Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla were granted to French Morocco

Olivenza will be returned to Portugal and Llívia will be ceded to France

Llívia is a Spanish village in France.

Gibraltar is enlarged significantly and bordered by the Hozgargante on one side and the Guadarranque on the other.

Galicia to Portugal.

Catalonia may go independent.

Otherwise Western Sahara to France, Baleric Islands and Equitorial Guinea to the UK, Canary Islands to the US.

I don't understand why you want to screw Spain that much, but if you want to do it, here you have:

Green: República Vasca del Sagrado Corazón de Jesús (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Republic)
Gold: Países Catalanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Countries)
Light Blue: República de Galicia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Galicia)
Dark Blue: Olivenza (to Portugal)
Red: Canary Islands and enlarged Gibraltar (to UK)

We can go further and give Cadiz or Asturias to USA. And also let's divide the remainin Spain in north Castilla and south Andalucía.

And now, seriously, remember: France and Italy were kept together and even Germany (even if the soviets built the iron curtain).On the east, other nations that joined the Axis were kept unified (Rumania, Hungary, etc...). And finally, Spain had a government in exile. I'm pretty sure that they have a word on this issue.

 

[ahmedali]

I don't understand why you want to screw Spain that much, but if you want to do it, here you have:

View attachment 791631

Green: República Vasca del Sagrado Corazón de Jesús (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basque_Republic)
Gold: Países Catalanes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Countries)
Light Blue: República de Galicia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Galicia)
Dark Blue: Olivenza (to Portugal)
Red: Canary Islands and enlarged Gibraltar (to UK)

We can go further and give Cadiz or Asturias to USA. And also let's divide the remainin Spain in north Castilla and south Andalucía.

And now, seriously, remember: France and Italy were kept together and even Germany (even if the soviets built the iron curtain).On the east, other nations that joined the Axis were kept unified (Rumania, Hungary, etc...). And finally, Sapin had a government in exile. I'm pretty sure that they have a word on this issue.

You made my day

You said I am cruel while your map is more cruel than me

You made Catalonia and Galicia independent, and this is much tougher than what you suggested

While I said Spain loses only Olivenza and Livia (very small parts of Spain) and its islands and colonies

Italy remained the majority of its lands for a simple reason because it turned sides, if it had not done so, it would have lost much more

(They will lose all istria and trestle and south tyrol and valley aosta and amberia and the worst sardinia and sicily and south italy if they didint change side)

Germany lost all its eastern lands and all their gains since 1933, so they are still losing badly

 

[tomiasdesd]

Not only Gibraltar but also the Canary Islands and the Balearic Islands will be ceded to Britain

Equatorial Guinea is divided between France and Portugal

Western Sahara, Avni, Spanish Morocco, Ceuta and Melilla were granted to French Morocco

Olivenza will be returned to Portugal and Llívia will be ceded to France

Llívia is a Spanish village in France.

ceuta should go to portugal, and i think they'd at least try to reclaim it

 

[Retro_Reaction]

The UK had contingency plans for this. Basically arrange an anti-Franco Nationalist coup. They had resources and contacts in place for just this eventuality,

Can you give some sources. This sounds like a fun alt Cold War flashpoint in Nazi V. Free World timelines

 

[ahmedali]

ceuta should go to portugal, and i think they'd at least try to reclaim it

No ceuta goes to morocco

 

[Catsmate]

Can you give some sources. This sounds like a fun alt Cold War flashpoint in Nazi V. Free World timelines

Certainly, I'll dig out my notes next week.

 

[Paladín Wulfen]

I love how everyone is like a compition for... How fuck Spain if she enter in the World War with the Axis.

ceuta should go to portugal, and i think they'd at least try to reclaim it

No ceuta goes to morocco

Why i feel Ahmedali nationalistic vibe is triggering ? Sorry if offend, you name say a much in this situation and context but i give you reason.
Mostly Ceuta and Melilla go to Morocco.

But i think she don't gonna balcanize much. I mean you can broke so easy a nation who pass a Civil War and his last seccession war was like two hundred years. You maybe cause a Kosovo-Bosnia situation.

 

[ahmedali]

I love how everyone is like a compition for... How fuck Spain if she enter in the World War with the Axis.


Why i feel Ahmedali nationalistic vibe is triggering ? Sorry if offend, you name say a much in this situation and context but i give you reason.
Mostly Ceuta and Melilla go to Morocco.

But i think she don't gonna balcanize much. I mean you can broke so easy a nation who pass a Civil War and his last seccession war was like two hundred years. You maybe cause a Kosovo-Bosnia situation.

No problem and don't worry, I am not Moroccan, in fact, I am Yemeni

Axis Spain could mean Morocco is significantly more and much more cooperative with the Allies

(Mohammed V was very hostile to the axis, add that the Spaniards have had very corrupt blood with the Moroccans for a very long time, and this may mean that Morocco will win more for the cause of the allies)

This means that Morocco will gain all of Spain's colonies, and the Americans may pressure France to grant Morocco independence early

(Morocco is the first country to recognize the independence of the United States, so they have a special relationship)

This means a Spanish apology to Muslims for the Reconquista wars

Portugal see them gain Equatorial Guinea (and the Canary Islands if Britain does not take them)

 

[Paladín Wulfen]

This means a Spanish apology to Muslims for the Reconquista wars

I don't see this because was religious wars.

Portugal see them gain Equatorial Guinea (and the Canary Islands if Britain does not take them)

I think more give independence to Guinea and give Canary Islands under US-British military occupation like Okinawa is for Japan

 

[El_Fodedor]

There is not way how Franco or Falangists are allowed to stay in power since they voluntarely joined to Axis.

Spain pjrobably becomes republic after the war. I would imaginate its looking politically pretty similar as Italy after WW2.

Spain probably remain as unified nation. France hardly is willingful accept independent Basque Land and Catalonia.

But Spain probably lost all of its holdings outside of Iberia. Ceuta, Melilla, and other Moroccan holdings are annexed by French Morocco. Not sure about fate of Western Sahara but it seems quiet logical that it would go to Morocco too. Not idea who would get Canary Islands. Perhaps Brits. French probably too get Spanish Guinea (modern day OTL Equarotial Guinea and it might become part of Gabon.

Spain itself would be admitted to NATO already in 1950's and joins to EEC much earlier.

What about the Balearic Islands?

 

[ahmedali]

I don't see this because was religious wars.

I think more give independence to Guinea and give Canary Islands under US-British military occupation like Okinawa is for Japan

The Jews were badly affected by the Reconquista, so people can be reminded of them in the context of the Holocaust

Add that North Africans hate the Spaniards (a large number of whom are descendants of the expelled from Iberia)

So things could end very badly

Canaries do not see Okinawa, but like other British crown colonies, especially Bermuda, Gibraltar and the Cayman Islands

 

[ahmedali]

What about the Balearic Islands?

.
They will return to the UK

(formerly British)

 

[El_Fodedor]

.
They will return to the UK

(formerly British)

But that was a long time ago. I feel the British wouldn't want anything to do with those Spanish speaking islands and Spain would manage to keep it, like Italy kept Sicily and Sardine.

 

[ahmedali]

But that was a long time ago. I feel the British wouldn't want anything to do with those Spanish speaking islands and Spain would manage to keep it, like Italy kept Sicily and Sardine.

Italy preserved its territorial integrity because they switched sides

This is much less likely because the Italian front was effectively replaced by the Iberian front

This means no switching sides and in the end a harsher punishment towards Italy

 

[El_Fodedor]

Italy preserved its territorial integrity because they switched sides

This is much less likely because the Italian front was effectively replaced by the Iberian front

This means no switching sides and in the end a harsher punishment towards Italy

Which could in turn mean a softer punishment towards Spain, considering switching sides is a much more likely possibility just after a civil war. There were tons of expats Spanish soldiers eager to give Franco some payback, and the possibility of a government in exile in on the table.

 

[ahmedali]

Which could in turn mean a softer punishment towards Spain, considering switching sides is a much more likely possibility just after a civil war. There were tons of expats Spanish soldiers eager to give Franco some payback, and the possibility of a government in exile in on the table.

There will be a Spanish government in exile

But it is essentially a kingdom of Spain in exile with the Duke of Barcelona being the Spanish de Gaulle

(Unlike most people here the Allies will not accept any way the return of the Spanish Republicans who are basically communists)

I see Spain punished harsher (the French, the Portuguese and the British will demand blood)

The first scenario is the loss of all their islands and colonies, in addition to the loss of Olivenza and an adjustment of the Franco-Spanish borders, and this is very moderate.

Worse, if the Allies harbored a grudge against Spain

The second scenario may be the revival of the kingdoms of Castile and Aragon as a real possibility (Castile to Juan, Duke of Barcelona, Aragon to the Duke of Parma)

But the first scenario is most likely to happen