Simultaneous Discovery of America

Rex Romanum

Banned
An idea that just pop-up in my head...
What if, instead of just Spain that firstly discovered America, it is England, France, Portugal, and Spain who discovered it nearly at the same time, but at different places...?
For example, England landed at Virginia while Spain landed at Carribean Islands in 1492, and France landed at Florida while Portugal landed at Brazil in 1493...
Is this possible? If yes, how? If no, why?
What will be the consequences of this? (both short-term and long-term)
 
Actually, this happened in OTL...

Columbus discovered it for Spain in 1492, JohnCabot/Giovanni Caboto for England in 1496 (or 1497) while Giovanni da Verrazzano explored alot for France after 1524. (though he and the french must've known of America already at that time

The result was that still only Spain colonized alot of America in the 15th/16th centuary, while France and England were happy fishing off New Foundland coast for another 100 years...
 
Actually, this happened in OTL...

Columbus discovered it for Spain in 1492, JohnCabot/Giovanni Caboto for England in 1496 (or 1497) while Giovanni da Verrazzano explored alot for France after 1524.
And Cabral for Portugal by 1500.
 
How about if the Chinees, Russians or Polanesians start setteling on the west coast?

And the Polynesian settled empty lands, like the Pacific Islands, New Zealand, but not lands that were already colonized, like Australia or Papua or the Philippines.
 
And the Polynesian settled empty lands, like the Pacific Islands, New Zealand, but not lands that were already colonized, like Australia or Papua or the Philippines.

New Zealand wasn't empty when it was colonised by Polynesians. The Maori arrived and killed off all the Moriori, forcing them to a tiny settlement on the Chatham Islands.

Otherwise, this is an interesting idea. A friend of mine wrote a one-page short story on an idea similar to this. The English had practically conquered all of North America while the Spanish had the south.
 
Circa 1500s-1600s;

Polynesians make contact with the Inkas near the Galápagos Islands as both groups expand in the Southern Pacific near South America. Initial relations are cordial, but to put it simply neither side has anything the other wants; the Inka are a massive, almost collectivists bureaucracy that provides more than ample amounts of food, clothes, etc for all their people. On the other hand, the Polynesians are sea-born explorers and early colonizers. Finding a land with a strong centralized state that is heavily populated is not what the Polynesians are looking for or want.

Ming China explores the Southeast Pacific, making indirect contact with the Inka via the Polynesians. With the Polynesians acting as middle men, the Inka and Chinese exchange goods, mostly crops - maize, potatoes and peanuts to China, and wheat, millet and rice to Inka. However, the Ming would be mostly focused on the areas closest to them, and if they explored the Pacific far enough the would eventually discover Australia - a much closer, and less densely populated and weaker organized, and larger land-mass much more situated for colonial goals, IMHO. Its highly doubtful that the Ming, or the Siberian or Transbaikalian Russians would make contact with OTL California, Columbia, etc. Alaska is a possibility, but there's nothing there worth investing in - and thus no reasons to continue to explore south and find the better areas. IOTL the strongest reason for European exploration, colonization, conquest and imperialism in the Americas was the Spanish luck in discovering a fat, rich land in Mexico that quickly fell to their forces. Without that or an equivalent motive, there's no reason to make the same motives on the Pacific side of the Americas. IMHO, the Ming would have economic reasons to explore the southern pacific looking for the land from which the Polynesians were getting the trade-goods from the Inka. Finding OTL Australia would be a side-affect of this goal, in the same way discovering the Americas IOTL was a side-affect of looking for a new route to the Far East.

Islamic Mali lands near OTL Venezuela, northern Brazil and some of the southern Caribbean Islands, contacting the Carib and other seafaring peoples on the coasts. Lacking anything to trade back to the Mali worth the costs of the trip, the Mali spend time and effort colonizing the islands, and evangelizing the native populations, much like the Catholic European powers per OTL. Eventually the Mali make contact with the Maya city-states and the Mexica Triple Alliance.

Western European colonial powers contact the Mexica, Tarascan, Mississippi chiefdoms, Maya city-states, and various tribes, including the Haudenosaunee league, on the Atlantic coasts of the Americas, mostly North, as per OTL. Eventually they contact the Mali explorers, colonizers and evangelizes near the equator and south. This limits initial European exploration in that area, creating spheres of influence dividing the north and south Atlantic.

Eventually both the Islamic and Christian powers encounter the Inka in OTL Columbia/Ecuador. The Inka are expanding due to the population boom from the introduction of a partial southeast Asian agricultural package; seeing the Inka eating rice, millet, and etc, the European and African powers believe they have finally discovered an 'oriental' civilization.
 
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Rex Romanum

Banned
Actually, this happened in OTL...

Columbus discovered it for Spain in 1492, JohnCabot/Giovanni Caboto for England in 1496 (or 1497) while Giovanni da Verrazzano explored alot for France after 1524. (though he and the french must've known of America already at that time

The result was that still only Spain colonized alot of America in the 15th/16th centuary, while France and England were happy fishing off New Foundland coast for another 100 years...

Really? Hmmm...
Then maybe I should change my OP...
What if England, France, Portugal, and Spain started building settlements in America at nearly the same time, but at different place...?

How about if the Chinees, Russians or Polanesians start setteling on the west coast?

This is an interesting idea, but what I want was many european colonial powers try to dominate America at the same time (well, at least in the same century...)

Maybe in the end we can get something like this...?

An Imperial World2.GIF
 
So you have the English both the St. Lawrence and Mississippi drainages (which OTL France tried to do but never had enough settlers), a French version of Cortes, and Spain taking Panama for access to the Pacific (Panama being Pizarro's jumping-off point). For the Portuguese Venezuela, either Spain, without the resources of Mexico, can't afford to push that way, or no Treaty of Torsedillas (or both). More Portuguese and less Spanish effort in America might affect Africa and India.

French Mexico, hmm...:cool:
 
I demand Dutch America. :p After all, we owned New York, Brooklyn, created Wall Street, and did more. And Australia was discovered by the Netherlands, it was called New Holland. And South Africa, one of the richest countries of that continent, was owned by the Netherlands. And don't forget the Philipines. Actually, I demand a world completely controlled by the Netherlands.

Seriously, add the Netherlands, Japan, and China. And perhaps more. And perhaps give Russia a larger piece of land.
 

Rex Romanum

Banned
I demand Dutch America. :p After all, we owned New York, Brooklyn, created Wall Street, and did more. And Australia was discovered by the Netherlands, it was called New Holland. And South Africa, one of the richest countries of that continent, was owned by the Netherlands. And don't forget the Philipines. Actually, I demand a world completely controlled by the Netherlands.

Seriously, add the Netherlands, Japan, and China. And perhaps more. And perhaps give Russia a larger piece of land.

Ah of course, Dutch...
I forget about them... :p
Hmmm, nlspeed, maybe you can just edit my map...?
 
New Zealand wasn't empty when it was colonised by Polynesians. The Maori arrived and killed off all the Moriori, forcing them to a tiny settlement on the Chatham Islands.

What?

It has been commonly accepted by historians and archaeologists for several decades (1960s/70s) that the Moriori were one of the Polynesian groups that migrated to New Zealand rather than either a distinct group that either preceeded the general migration or were a different ethnic group. The current theory being that they went to the Chathams via NZ about 1500. Their culture is distinctly Polynesian Maori (excluding latter 19th century influence post invasion) as is their genetic makeup.

Quoted from Teara, the Encyclopaedia of New Zealand

The Moriori are the indigenous people of Rēkohu (Chatham Island) and Rangiaotea (Pitt Island), the two largest islands in the Chatham group, 767 km south-east of mainland New Zealand. It was once believed that Moriori were a Melanesian people, but it is now thought that they share the same Polynesian ancestry as Māori people.

Current research also indicates that Moriori came to the Chatham Islands from New Zealand about 1500. Moriori traditions, however, hold that there were people on the island before the canoe voyagers arrived.

Wikipedia link on the same



The Moriori as a pre Maori, non Polynesian people is pretty widely believed amongst the general population though. I think my father and a lot of people his generation still believe it as an article of faith. They do not really follow this kind of thing closely and when they went to school I think the older theories of who the Moriori were/are predominated.
 
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