Silly little idea: Hellenistic Egyptian republic

[Cuāuhtemōc]

In my readings of Ptolemaic Egypt, I'm sensing there was this weird, undefined relationship between the king and the de jure Greek cities in Egypt: Alexandria, Naucratis and Ptolemais. Egypt was considered the property of the pharaoh, administered by royal bureaucrats and yet the cities seemed to have had self-governance, in theory. They had their own civic assemblies and given the same basic rights that Greek citizens would be familiar with.

As for the Ptolemaic monarchy itself, each subsequent king after Ptolemy III became more and more incompetent, delegating control to court advisors and what have you. Say in a world where Rome's not a factor (doesn't matter how), would it possible for the existing democratic institutions in Hellenistic Egypt to usurp control from the monarchy and establish some form of oligarchic republic, perhaps along similar lines to the early USA where land-owning individuals were granted representation in some sort of national assembly?

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

In my readings of Ptolemaic Egypt, I'm sensing there was this weird, undefined relationship between the king and the de jure Greek cities in Egypt: Alexandria, Naucratis and Ptolemais. Egypt was considered the property of the pharaoh, administered by royal bureaucrats and yet the cities seemed to have had self-governance, in theory. They had their own civic assemblies and given the same basic rights that Greek citizens would be familiar with.

As for the Ptolemaic monarchy itself, each subsequent king after Ptolemy III became more and more incompetent, delegating control to court advisors and what have you. Say in a world where Rome's not a factor (doesn't matter how), would it possible for the existing democratic institutions in Hellenistic Egypt to usurp control from the monarchy and establish some form of oligarchic republic, perhaps along similar lines to the early USA where land-owning individuals were granted representation in some sort of national assembly?

I actually think that's possible; in Stacy Schiff's Cleopatra, much is made of the Alexandrian Mob's tendency to be independent-minded enough to make overthrowing kings a hobby.

 

[Deleted member 97083]

If Greeks overthrew the Ptolemies and gave up the idea of Pharaoh, and then got invaded by another empire, maybe the native Egyptian peasants could try rebelling and placing a usurper Pharaoh with a new dynasty.

 

[Dragos Cel Mare]

If Greeks overthrew the Ptolemies and gave up the idea of Pharaoh, and then got invaded by another empire, maybe the native Egyptian peasants could try rebelling and placing a usurper Pharaoh with a new dynasty.

Last time they tried that, they alienated the Priesthood and other native peasants by looting temples, or so other AH.Com threads say.

 

[John Fredrick Parker]

... yet the cities seemed to have had self-governance, in theory. They had their own civic assemblies and given the same basic rights that Greek citizens would be familiar with.

Were these assemblies Athenian style democracies, by any chance, or were they more aristocratic and/or "balanced" in nature? Because if it's the former, that might come into play in this discussion...

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

Were these assemblies Athenian style democracies, by any chance, or were they more aristocratic and/or "balanced" in nature? Because if it's the former, that might come into play in this discussion...

In theory they were based on the assemblies of Athens but in practice they were represented by the nobles.

 

[Analytical Engine]

In theory they were based on the assemblies of Athens but in practice they were represented by the nobles.

So, like Rome then...

 

[Cuāuhtemōc]

So, like Rome then...

Which is where I'm kinda going: just figuring out if an oligarchic Egyptian republic is within the realm of possibility and what effects it would have for religion: ie ancient Egyptian religion had a monarchial bent to it and without the pharaoh, it'd be different.

 

[ManintheField]

In theory they were based on the assemblies of Athens but in practice they were represented by the nobles.

What it was is that, while 'democracy' of a sort spread rapidly after the 5th century, becoming by the Hellenistic era probably the dominant form of city-government, citizenship requirements everywhere tightened up and cities stopped being 'states' unto themselves. People of a class similar to the statutory status of classical Athenian metis became demographically dominant, no matter how long they lived in the city.