No Battlestar Galactica, since the Star Wars franchise sued them for intellectual property infringement. (I think they lost.) As for the others, hard to say, since the creators would be looking for themes.
SF film & TV without "Star Trek" or "Star Wars"?
- Thread starter phx1138
- Start date
No Trek is a big deal. Here in September '65 (q.v. Galactic Journey), we are VERY excited about there being real science fiction on television next year. Outer Limits flirted with it, especially in the truncated second season, but that's about it. The Irwin Allen productions are decidedly NOT science fiction (and pretty lousy to boot).
Love Roddenberry or hate him, Trek was lightning in a bottle. Something like it could happen later, but I'm not sure who would do it. Maybe 2001 inspires a gritty future series set in the solar system a la The Expanse. Poul Anderson could be the technical advisor.
Star Wars, on the other hand, I think is more likely to happen someday. It's a big dumb space opera. With excellent special effects.
marathag
Banned
No real change.
As much as I'd like to see what Jodorowsky 's Dune looked like on the Silver Screen, I don't see it being made by him, but Rights for it would pass to someone else, and that happened to be De Laurentiis , in 1976- before Star Wars is a thing
Now he wanted Ridley Scott to do it in 1979, and then turned out to Lynch.
And it would be a Lynch Film. No getting around that. No _Star Wars_ around won't change that
marathag
Banned
It's Science Fiction, just not great Science Fiction, or even good, for much of it.
But I will say, the first season of Voyage was more than decent , not like the later seasons with all the 'Monster of the Week' stuff.
Terry Dicks and Barry Letts originally wanted to create a drama set upon a Royal Navy frigate in 1972, but then the BBC picked up Warship which led to Letts and Dicks creating Moonbase 3.
Hypothetically, they could simply apply the sci-fi setting of Moonbase 3 to the "Royal Navy" setting of Warship and we get a proto-Trek.
Hypothetically, they could simply apply the sci-fi setting of Moonbase 3 to the "Royal Navy" setting of Warship and we get a proto-Trek.
FairlyUninformedGraduate
Gone Fishin'
Her Majesty's Starship Fearless. Her mission: to explore deepest space, help those in direst need, and fearlessly defend the Earth!
(Cue title music)
Derek Pullem
Donor
Tomorrow People is actually a good PoD - if the American networks pick it up you could get an earlier X-Men / Marvel revival.
Mark1878
Donor
But I don't see it as something that would go over in the US. If so good it adds a black lead actress but no kissing as it is a young adult programme
The Marvel thing does remind me of another UK series. The Champions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The Champions
This has superheroes hiding amongst normals
It aired in autumn 1968 and I note Terry Nation wrote the screen play for some episodes
Reading the Wikipedia page also reminds me of other ITC productions
The Avengers - the proper one some of the episodes are SF
The Prisoner
The Invisible Man which was on CBS in 1958
There are many non SW and ST science fiction. Most not space opera but more superpowers. Many have better stories
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There allot POD that can happen
One: Roddenberry first Pilot is rejected by NBC and that's it no further attemp
Second: George Lukas fulfil his dream and become Race car driver or die trying it (he almost died in a race crash)
What happen next ?
there will 1970s the broadcast syndication in US, they need programs to fill in
OTL Star trek got into broadcast and became Kult TV series, until Kurtzmann...
That Role could fill in with Gerry Anderson production, Thunderbird, Captain Scarlet, UFO , Space: 1999 and ohters
means with backing from US ITV could produce more Anderson shows for USA
Movies
No Star Wars, will be major game changer in Hollywood, means no Battlestar Galactica or Starcrash...
But there will be Steven Spielbergs "Close Encounter of Third Kind" and will be Blockbuster for Hollywood
and produce want cash in with clones of Spielberg movie...
next to that is a Egomaniac trying to make holy movie: DUNE but will fail like OTL
but from that remains come ALIEN a Roger Corman production directed by John Carpenter, SFX by James Cameron.
Orginal O'bannon had deal with Corman, but went to 20 century FOX do Star Wars success...
One: Roddenberry first Pilot is rejected by NBC and that's it no further attemp
Second: George Lukas fulfil his dream and become Race car driver or die trying it (he almost died in a race crash)
What happen next ?
there will 1970s the broadcast syndication in US, they need programs to fill in
OTL Star trek got into broadcast and became Kult TV series, until Kurtzmann...
That Role could fill in with Gerry Anderson production, Thunderbird, Captain Scarlet, UFO , Space: 1999 and ohters
means with backing from US ITV could produce more Anderson shows for USA
Movies
No Star Wars, will be major game changer in Hollywood, means no Battlestar Galactica or Starcrash...
But there will be Steven Spielbergs "Close Encounter of Third Kind" and will be Blockbuster for Hollywood
and produce want cash in with clones of Spielberg movie...
next to that is a Egomaniac trying to make holy movie: DUNE but will fail like OTL
but from that remains come ALIEN a Roger Corman production directed by John Carpenter, SFX by James Cameron.
Orginal O'bannon had deal with Corman, but went to 20 century FOX do Star Wars success...
Derek Pullem
Donor
I was thinking someone seeing Tomorrow People and thinking "Hey, what about all those old Marvel superheroes that we used to read about" and coming up with an X-men First Class concept.
Isn't there a conflict with "UFO" & "Moonbase 3", which could push them that direction, too? (If only we could get the producers & writers to think "submarine"!)
In that direction, if it was possible to push a harder SF, I'd make "1999" a drama, rather than an adventure (which is the perennial problem) & limit it to base operations, because I particularly liked the idea of Moonbase Alpha (& the Eagles were pretty cool
).Me, neither, but I'm aware of how popular he is.
If I had my way, there would have been a series based on "Witch Hunt".
For sure. The question I have is, are they Piper's, which they would be if made in the '60s or '70s, or Mayhar's? (I also dread the prospect of awful animation.
)Yeah, without Lucas' encouragement, that might not happen. If Spielberg liked the idea, tho, IMO it'd still happen, & he'd still end up with the clout to do it, between "Duel" & "CE3K". (I'd ask anybody who wants to look beyond the effect on SF proper, including the careers of the actors & writers on the series, to refrain, here...or start a "daughter" thread.)
I could see Doug Trumbull filling that role, tho he might need a different film than "Silent Running" to try the SPFX on (& TBH, if that didn't get made, I'd be happier {Geez, how dumb were the writers?
}). "Logan's Run"? And thinking of that, given the popularity of ZPG themes in SF at the time, I wonder if the "Logan's Run" TV series doesn't do better.I could happily see "Black Hole" & "Spaceballs" never getting made...
Really? I liked the movie a lot, which is usually a sign something is doomed.
I'd happily have the series last longer. (I do draw a distinction between traditional horror, with vampires & werewolves, & the "giant something" monster movie. I'd put "Buffy" & "Supernatural" in the same category as "Kolchak".)My guess is no, because, AIUI, Larson was encouraged by Gene Coon, & if Coon hadn't been producer on "ST", he wouldn't have seen it could work--& "ST" in syndication wouldn't have proven there was a market for TV SF. However...Coon would still have been a working producer, & without "ST" competition... Flip a coin.
It occurs to me the success of "Alien" could lead to a lot of high-budget, high quality monster movies, so "Starship Troopers" that's closer to the book than "Dougie Houser, SS".
If I'm dreaming of shows I'd do, was an early version of "The Lost Room" possible? (There's mention of something like it from "Friday the 13th: The Series". I thought it was a brilliant project.) Could that be a series? Does it demand turning into "Warehouse 13"? (I wouldn't object to that--done right; the OTL casting was about perfect, & the writing was excellent.)
In ref "Dune", I really, really wish they could have persuaded David Lean to do it. (I can't see him revisiting "Lawrence", tho...)
Some things clearly don't get made. "Galaxina", for instance? (Dorothy Stratten's sole film credit, AFAIK.)
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I rather think HMS Invincible, lol.
Isn't there a conflict with "UFO" & "Moonbase 3", which could push them that direction, too? (If only we could get the producers & writers to think "submarine"!)
In that direction, if it was possible to push a harder SF, I'd make "1999" a drama, rather than an adventure (which is the perennial problem) & limit it to base operations, because I particularly liked the idea of Moonbase Alpha (& the Eagles were pretty cool
Me, neither, but I'm aware of how popular he is.
If I had my way, there would have been a series based on "Witch Hunt".
For sure. The question I have is, are they Piper's, which they would be if made in the '60s or '70s, or Mayhar's? (I also dread the prospect of awful animation.
Yeah, without Lucas' encouragement, that might not happen. If Spielberg liked the idea, tho, IMO it'd still happen, & he'd still end up with the clout to do it, between "Duel" & "CE3K". (I'd ask anybody who wants to look beyond the effect on SF proper, including the careers of the actors & writers on the series, to refrain, here...or start a "daughter" thread.)
I could see Doug Trumbull filling that role, tho he might need a different film than "Silent Running" to try the SPFX on (& TBH, if that didn't get made, I'd be happier {Geez, how dumb were the writers?
I could happily see "Black Hole" & "Spaceballs" never getting made...
Really? I liked the movie a lot, which is usually a sign something is doomed.
My guess is no, because, AIUI, Larson was encouraged by Gene Coon, & if Coon hadn't been producer on "ST", he wouldn't have seen it could work--& "ST" in syndication wouldn't have proven there was a market for TV SF. However...Coon would still have been a working producer, & without "ST" competition... Flip a coin.
It occurs to me the success of "Alien" could lead to a lot of high-budget, high quality monster movies, so "Starship Troopers" that's closer to the book than "Dougie Houser, SS".
If I'm dreaming of show's I'd do, was an early version of "The Lost Room" possible? (There's mention of something like it from "Friday the 13th: The Series". I thought it was a brilliant project.) Could that be a series? Does it demand turning into "Warehouse 13"? (I wouldn't object to that--done right; the OTL casting was about perfect, & the writing was excellent.)
In ref "Dune", I really, really wish they could have persuaded David Lean to do it. (I can't see him revisiting "Lawrence", tho...)
Some things clearly don't get made. "Galaxina", for instance? (Dorothy Stratten's sole film credit, AFAIK.)
Lost Room was amazing.
That's the season I just finished. It was pretty bad.
I feel that there's a line of plausibility that, if crossed, excludes the subject from science fiction, and it becomes science fantasy.
Star Wars is in that category. It's got lasers and space and aliens, but it's not science fiction. There's no science in it.
Trek was the hardest science fiction that had ever been on television to date, only surpassed by Babylon 5 (at least the first season) and The Expanse.
Sure, but Star Wars is what made it marketable. Chances are merch production would be a lot less frequent.
marathag
Banned
Space Fantasy is the term you're looking for.
I would add _Mars_,_Space, Above and beyond_ and _Firefly_
marathag
Banned
Ape Merchandising is what made the sequels happen, despite blowing up the Planet in the first sequel.
Yes a LOT of what happened with SW and ST was happening and will happen without them. But it WILL take more time. And yes you had marketing but not on the level that SW had. Case in point marketing was so minimal that the studio let GL keep it ALL. If they knew how much money could be made from it they would not have just ignored it.
And the phenomenon that SW was in 1977 was unheard of. It was not just huge in the US. It was very big in Europe. And. Basically is the father of all block busters and the summer blockbuster big movie we see. Such as Independence Day and the like.
As for Close Encounters while it is a Sci Fi movie by definition it is NOT the same as ST or SW as it does not take place IN space. Even 2001 while taking place in space is not the same as SW, ST, BSG, Buck Rogers and Babylon 5 (for a bit more recent example). Some of the English shows like Dr Who or Red dwarf are also nott space opera’s. They were good but they are not from the same branch of the family tree as SW was.
As for Space 1999 that is a funny case. But without SW I just don’t see it getting made. It had (for a TV Sci Fi of the time) some reasonably ell known actors. It had a GREAT space ship design. It had good sets, and for the time great special effects (for TV). But the reality is all that needs influence and cost money and SW created the bandwagon that Space 1999 jumped on as well as as the rest of them.
Without SW we don’t get that bandwagon we don’t get that influence we don’t get the money because this all came about from trying to make “Star Wars” levels of money.
We also lose the blockbuster, We slow down Spielbergs carrier (no Indiana Jones to name but one) we don’t get the independent special effects houses.
Now eventually you will get some of this. Some movie will be a blockbuster and start that. Some Sci Fi movie will hit it big. Someone will creat a space western or space fantasy that will go big. Someone will figure out advanced special effects. And as a result special effects houses will take off.
The thing is... Star Wars was ALL of these together. I am not sure we will see this combination it was frankly a FLUKE.
It has been 43 years sense SW hit the screens and we have had big movies and movies that started runs of similar movies. The Marvel Universe starting a trend to try and creat shared universes is an example of this. But we have not see anything close to the level that the original Star Wars hit.
If you were not alive to see and remember it, it is hard to picture. I was in Europe for a month in Late June and early July. It was even being talked about over there. I didn’t get to see it until August 31st. That was a Wednesday 3 MONTHS after it debuted and the theater was still VERY busy.
Yes ultimately every lesson learned from SW will be figured out but it will take longer and you won’t get the amazing phenomenon Star Wars was. It was a once in as lifetime lightning in a bottle moment. That has rarely (if ever) been see in Hollywood before or after.
And the phenomenon that SW was in 1977 was unheard of. It was not just huge in the US. It was very big in Europe. And. Basically is the father of all block busters and the summer blockbuster big movie we see. Such as Independence Day and the like.
As for Close Encounters while it is a Sci Fi movie by definition it is NOT the same as ST or SW as it does not take place IN space. Even 2001 while taking place in space is not the same as SW, ST, BSG, Buck Rogers and Babylon 5 (for a bit more recent example). Some of the English shows like Dr Who or Red dwarf are also nott space opera’s. They were good but they are not from the same branch of the family tree as SW was.
As for Space 1999 that is a funny case. But without SW I just don’t see it getting made. It had (for a TV Sci Fi of the time) some reasonably ell known actors. It had a GREAT space ship design. It had good sets, and for the time great special effects (for TV). But the reality is all that needs influence and cost money and SW created the bandwagon that Space 1999 jumped on as well as as the rest of them.
Without SW we don’t get that bandwagon we don’t get that influence we don’t get the money because this all came about from trying to make “Star Wars” levels of money.
We also lose the blockbuster, We slow down Spielbergs carrier (no Indiana Jones to name but one) we don’t get the independent special effects houses.
Now eventually you will get some of this. Some movie will be a blockbuster and start that. Some Sci Fi movie will hit it big. Someone will creat a space western or space fantasy that will go big. Someone will figure out advanced special effects. And as a result special effects houses will take off.
The thing is... Star Wars was ALL of these together. I am not sure we will see this combination it was frankly a FLUKE.
It has been 43 years sense SW hit the screens and we have had big movies and movies that started runs of similar movies. The Marvel Universe starting a trend to try and creat shared universes is an example of this. But we have not see anything close to the level that the original Star Wars hit.
If you were not alive to see and remember it, it is hard to picture. I was in Europe for a month in Late June and early July. It was even being talked about over there. I didn’t get to see it until August 31st. That was a Wednesday 3 MONTHS after it debuted and the theater was still VERY busy.
Yes ultimately every lesson learned from SW will be figured out but it will take longer and you won’t get the amazing phenomenon Star Wars was. It was a once in as lifetime lightning in a bottle moment. That has rarely (if ever) been see in Hollywood before or after.