Seven Days to the River Rhine: the Third World War - a TL
- Thread starter Onkel Willie
- Start date
Or butterflied (my mom almost certainly dies on doomsday, and while my dad lived in a small town the odds still aren't in his favor to survive the fallout, pun intended).
The circumstances you'd face after a nuclear world war in the 80s are not the same you'd face in a peaceful world where the USSR collapses without too much violence. Thereby, most peoples parents in this thread would not meet each other ITTL, and thus most if not all on this site are likely butterflied away. But, if that's not somehow the case, then I'm probably one of the lucky few to live. My parents were both born in northern Ontario, with my dad being in a small town and my mom born on the Rez, not exactly high priority targets for Soviet bombers.
I agree 100-150 km into NATO territory and then they run out of supplies and their logistics are savaged
What is your opinion of soviet OCA capabilities? They did have about 1200 su24/su17/mig27 that can be directed mostly for attacking airbases
The arms control delegations that had been meeting in Geneva Switzerland are probably still there. They might be best positioned to communicate with the remnants of their respective sides.
badfishy40
Banned
Being I was 13 in 1983 living in conneaut Ohio I'm sure I may have survived Cleveland getting hit but the resulting fallout would probably do me in. I'm curious did buffalo and Pittsburgh get targeted in your story? I'm thinking out of the two Pittsburgh would have been hit for the obvious steelworks. Fun for the whole family lol
I'm thinking of maybe doing a TL which diverges from there if you don't mind
Realistically, these economies are going to collapse because they lack resources coming from Western countries. Even if Argentina and Brazil have enough resources to try some autarchy-based projects, their economies are going to immediately feel the hit of their trading partners being essentially destroyed. Either they become repressive dictatorships or they collapse into civil war. Maybe India can pull it off.
Both Australia and New Zealand have very strong democratic traditions, I doubt either would slip into anarchy - no matter how bad the economic cataclysm is. The others though? can't say. We can also feed ourselves, so that isn't an issue. One major issue is medical supplies for preventable disease.
ICBM and SLBM launches will be picked up right away by https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Support_Program
Soviet equivalent was shit, that's where Stanislav Petrov was famous from.
Soviet SLBM have bad precision, those would likely be kept for any subsequent countervalue strikes. (Why stop counting now when we can cross a billion deaths by end of week).
USA would also keep some SLBMs in reserve.
France and UK making entire Moscow region disappear are correct response.
Are B-52 still actually dropping bombs in 1983 or have they already started switching to nuclear Tomahawks? What are B1-B and F-117 doing? Latter would certainly be used in a attempt of a decapitating strike.
That is one of deadliest nuclear exchanges I've read in a long while. In ATLs certainly, I think "Protect and Survive" while extremely grim had less immediate deaths. And "able archer war" had USA outright win.
This was supposed to be a disarming first strike at counterforce targets right? Where are Dakotas and Colorado and Wyoming becoming glass parking lots from hundreds upon hundreds of warheads targeting Minuteman silos?
This compares to "Brief history of Death" in late Greg Bear's "Eon" novels.
Soviet equivalent was shit, that's where Stanislav Petrov was famous from.
Soviet SLBM have bad precision, those would likely be kept for any subsequent countervalue strikes. (Why stop counting now when we can cross a billion deaths by end of week).
USA would also keep some SLBMs in reserve.
France and UK making entire Moscow region disappear are correct response.
Are B-52 still actually dropping bombs in 1983 or have they already started switching to nuclear Tomahawks? What are B1-B and F-117 doing? Latter would certainly be used in a attempt of a decapitating strike.
That is one of deadliest nuclear exchanges I've read in a long while. In ATLs certainly, I think "Protect and Survive" while extremely grim had less immediate deaths. And "able archer war" had USA outright win.
This was supposed to be a disarming first strike at counterforce targets right? Where are Dakotas and Colorado and Wyoming becoming glass parking lots from hundreds upon hundreds of warheads targeting Minuteman silos?
This compares to "Brief history of Death" in late Greg Bear's "Eon" novels.
Last edited:
Peruvian here. IF (and that's a big if) we manage to stabilize the food and advanced imports situation long enough, perhaps we can do well. Especially since it doesn't seem that the nuclear exchange was large enough to cause a true nuclear winter. Food will be in high demand and Peru is still an agrarian country, so prices will be high and with luck, benefit peasants that are still trying to get used to the post-land reform situation. And by 1983, enough of Velasco's industry was still standing, and could be counted on for consumer goods and to help with foreign reconstruction. I guess president Belaunde will bring Peru into a strategic partnership and outright alliance with Argentina, since we helped them during the Malvinas war just a year ago. Plus, our military was recently reequipped and modernized, and all that debt is now gone, so we are secure.
Still, the first years after the exchange will be difficult, and likely to slide into authoritarianism in order to prevent riots. Shining Path was not that strong by 1983 either, so it should be snuffed out early, helped by peasants that see their situation improve thanks to higher food export prices. And maybe, just maybe, we'll be able to prosper as a semi-industrial nation in the Argentinian and Brazilian supply chain.
Still, the first years after the exchange will be difficult, and likely to slide into authoritarianism in order to prevent riots. Shining Path was not that strong by 1983 either, so it should be snuffed out early, helped by peasants that see their situation improve thanks to higher food export prices. And maybe, just maybe, we'll be able to prosper as a semi-industrial nation in the Argentinian and Brazilian supply chain.
Last edited:
My parents were in Cork at this time so whether or not the Soviets took out any Irish targets (aside from Northern Ireland which would have taken a hammering) they might have survived the war itself. My extended family over in England are definitely goners though.
Seeing how they snuffed out Austria without a second thought I don't think European neutrals would have fared well. The Swiss ironically are probably the best prepared for all this. Maybe Finland gets away lightly seeing how close they are to the Soviet heartland?
What about communist "neutrals"? Do the Americans go after the likes of Yugoslavia or Albania on the other side?
Seeing how they snuffed out Austria without a second thought I don't think European neutrals would have fared well. The Swiss ironically are probably the best prepared for all this. Maybe Finland gets away lightly seeing how close they are to the Soviet heartland?
What about communist "neutrals"? Do the Americans go after the likes of Yugoslavia or Albania on the other side?
Last edited:
Pangur
Donor
and they would nuke where? Any city of interest to them has already been nuked
I was in Limerick, Shannon was always and ever a likely target. If I survived the initial attack would have depended on the nuke being in target or if not at least not hitting the city.
Even ideologues generally are rational actors, or else they'd never even reach positions of power. There's a reason we've never had a nuclear war since 1945.
Last edited:
I think Australia and New Zealand will likely go for something like COVID restrictions but in steroids. Very heavy rationing, very heavy government oversight, and some hardcore import substitution. I do agree that they could pull it off. They won't be some economic superpower but they will likely be the most functional nations in the world.
However, a country like Argentina is going to go through some hard times. At the time, the economy was in a very fragile state and it was very dependent on US investments. It's uncertain if they can come on top of this event.