Is it possible for European powers to only start colonizing the American continent in the late 18th century through early 20th century, very much like Africa?
Scramble for America
- Thread starter Rafael stahl
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diseases in Africa prevented European powers from colonizing Africa until they developed a cure for tropical diseases like malaria, something the natives were resistant to to.
You would require something similar the American Continent. some disease that prevents colonization until a cure is developed.
You would require something similar the American Continent. some disease that prevents colonization until a cure is developed.
Maybe a version of syphilis that transmits the same way as smallpox or cold
I think they would need Europe to not be as developed as OTL for this to happen. If they start exploring the world they will inevitably go to America
The Gulf Stream is full of giant ship-devouring kraken that require steel hulled vessels and nitrate explosives to deal with.
That doesn't matter, just because there's one trading route doesn't mean people won't want to find another trading route so they can monopolise that one and not have to pay as much tariffs, said trading route would have to go through africa and due to winds there is eventually going to be a ship which will find America in an accident, just much earlier than you think it would. America could also be discovered by a lunatic with a few ships intent on finding Purgatory.
with a POD where marco polo dies in Constantinople before reaching and documenting the lands of China and East Asia, there is no knowledge of any lucrative markets to access. Without that, there is no incentive for European Traders to reach markets in the far east, because they have no knowledge of civilizations and trade goods existing there. With no incentive comes no driving force behind exploration.
There was nothing stopping it happen centuries earlier. Africa had several factors keeping Europeans out until 'the Scramble'.
1. Strong states that were, in earlier age, quite capable of beating (the tiny) European imperial forces. That is why the English, Dutch and such were confined to tiny trading factories along the coast. In North America, illness and tech problems meant the locals were never more then an irritant to white settlers.
2. Hostile landscape. No Europeans (at this time) had any idea how to farm most of Africa, which was vastly different then Northwestern Europe. Jungles? Deserts? Drylands? Too foreign. While North America had wild areas too, much of it it, in particular the eastern seaboard, was very familiar and easy to bring under European style cultivation.
3. Last but not least, Africa was just straight up deadly to Europeans. All sorts of illness that Europeans simply couldn't deal with until modern medicine was invented. This was not a problem in most of North America.
1. Strong states that were, in earlier age, quite capable of beating (the tiny) European imperial forces. That is why the English, Dutch and such were confined to tiny trading factories along the coast. In North America, illness and tech problems meant the locals were never more then an irritant to white settlers.
2. Hostile landscape. No Europeans (at this time) had any idea how to farm most of Africa, which was vastly different then Northwestern Europe. Jungles? Deserts? Drylands? Too foreign. While North America had wild areas too, much of it it, in particular the eastern seaboard, was very familiar and easy to bring under European style cultivation.
3. Last but not least, Africa was just straight up deadly to Europeans. All sorts of illness that Europeans simply couldn't deal with until modern medicine was invented. This was not a problem in most of North America.
You forget something very important, since everything you mention the Americas had too (especialy Southern America) . There is one important difference though between Africa and the Americas, the diseases the Europeans brought over that killed a very large percentage of the native Americans, while the native Africans were as imune to those diseases as the Europeans were. That is also why Africans were brought over to the Americas as slaves. There were not enough Indians left for the Europeans to use, so they used Africans who were already used to the tropical climate that would (and did) kill the Europeans.
And since the Africans weren't dying en masse, the Europeans could not simply walk into Africa like they were basicly able to do in the Americas.
My point still stands. Just because Marco polo himself doesn't tell his stories doesn't mean any other trader couldn't. Furthermore, the Europeans knew there was more lands to the East, eventually someone is going to end up telling stories about riches to the east and people are going to follow. And even if there isn't, the Europeans also knew there was land south of Morocco and Algeria. With what you're proposing America is going to be discovered before the 18th century. And it doesn't take a whole fleet to discover the America mind you, anywhere between a lunatic convincing a Western European king to give him two ships and sail west with them to winds could make America be discovered. The Africans could discover it too. Point is, your POD is too late to push colonisation much further.
Let’s not exaggerate. Europe‘s discovery of the New World was in no way predestined. You don’t need ASBs to delay or prevent it.
Ifyou mean that it is entirely possible for non-Europeans to find the Americas before the Europeans, that is possible (although Europeans and West Africans do have a significant advantage locationwise). If you mean that it is possible for the Europeans to discover the Americas laterthan OTL. That is also correct, but not by much. The Americas are pretty close to Europe (and west Africa). In the 16th century European sailing technology was so far developed that it was only a matter of time before the Europeans would discover the Americas. I don't think you can delay the discovery of the Americas for more than a century (and even that is pushing it) unless by creating a big disaster happening to Europe.
Agreed on "delay", but I have serious reservations with "prevent". European trade and economic activity was vastly increasing in scale and complexity throughout the Middle Ages. It was only a matter of time before it reached a global scale.
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That’s the point. There is another way as well; unify Europe into a big hegemonic empire uninterested in overseas expansion like China OTL
Eh, other groups from within Eurasia (the Japanese, the Mali...) could have discovered America first. It’s not as if Europe is geographically preordained to always be the first to discover the New World. A Eurasian discovery of the New World? I’d probably have to agree with you here that it is probably unpreventable (or happens in 99% of timelines, anyway)
Lusitania
Donor
Once the Europeans start exploring west Africa and find a maritime route to India/Asia around Africa Americas be discovered with a decade.
Now without Columbus and his riches scheme colonization and conquest would of happen differently but as many have stated there were none of the disease and hostile natives that existed in Africa to prevent Europeans from settling and conquering the Americas. Nothing that would delay it by centuries.
Now without Columbus and his riches scheme colonization and conquest would of happen differently but as many have stated there were none of the disease and hostile natives that existed in Africa to prevent Europeans from settling and conquering the Americas. Nothing that would delay it by centuries.
You can delay it, sure. Delay it by three centuries? No chance without devastating Europe somehow.
To be fair, the historical relevance of Marco Polo is always overestimated, and many people did not even believe Marco Polo's account was true because it did not match other accounts, admittedly more implausible for our modern point of view. But this does not change the fact that Marco Polo travelled through the Silk Road, which had been existing for quite some centuries. Ancient Romans had reached China, it's not that people had to wait for "Il Milione" to know that Chine and its precious goods existed.