Here's one that survived - barely - in Oklahoma, but could possibly have held out in the Appalachias:
Save an extinct ethnic group
- Thread starter GameBawesome
- Start date
Here's one that survived - barely - in Oklahoma, but could possibly have held out in the Appalachias:
I don't think the Ancient Greeks count as they didn't go extinct and infact actually influenced the Romans who conquered them a lot more then the other way around.
Deleted member 186022
The Ancient Greek ethnicity did go extinct - I’m not sure what you mean with the influence part.
The latter Romans such as the Byzantines spoke Greek instead of Latin as their main language and the early Romans pretty much ripped off their entire pantheon from them. I don't know where you got the idea the Ancient Greek ethnic group went extinct. From what I can tell its been more or less established that the modern population of Greece are pretty closely related to them.
Yes. They spoke the ancestor to modern Inuit languages.
By the 16th century the Yuchi were politically part of the Creek and shared their fortune--and fate. Had they gone their own way (which is unlikely since Yuchi relations with the Creek towns went back into Mississippian times), they would've done far, far worse in the slave raids and warfare of the 17th-18th century and potentially have been entirely destroyed as a separate people.Here's one that survived - barely - in Oklahoma, but could possibly have held out in the Appalachias:
Yuchi - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
Since Windows somehow has Etruscan among its language options, I thought about it and, what if an Etruscan-speaking remnant had survived against all odds? A likely location would be the Apennines, most likely somewhere in Umbria, another option would be for this remnant to move north and merge into the linguistically related Rhaetic peoples; if they do, they could eventually be the border between Germanic, Romance and Slavic Europe.
Oscan-speaking peoples, but I don't know how exactly.
Ok, brainstorming time.
We know that Oscan was still spoken in probably multiethnic 79 AC Pompeii, which implies that the language was preserved by the mountaineers for at least another century or two though we have no Oscan inscriptions from the late empire, but the similarity with Latin makes its extinction inevitable at some point or another - as long as continued Roman rule remains.
Which means that, maybe, it is Roman rule that we have to wipe out first. Let the socii win the Social War somehow, have an Italic, Oscan-speaking state right on Rome's doorstep in southern Italy for some time. Maybe the socii can sign an alliance with Mithridates VI in time (this was actually planned OTL but iirc the envoys reached him only by the time the war ended in 88 BC though unrest would continue until 82 when the former socii sided with Marius and almost destroyed Rome at the Colline Gate). Maybe the Romans refuse to hand out citizenship until too late, and IOTL it was citizenship which divided the allied front since some were fighting to acquire it and some others simply wanted out of their alliance with Rome.
How Rome solves its inevitable manpower issues considering that southern Italians made up half of its forces is up for debate. Another issue that presents itself is the connection with Greek cities such as Taras and Rhegion, which never revolted.
Maybe they make up for it with Cisalpine Gauls, Illyrians and perhaps Spanish tribes - after dealing with Sertorious, or maybe they extend citizenship to non-Romans and Italics earlier, learning from the mistake of the Social War. Either way, Rome makes up for this loss and, in due time - a century and a half or less - it reacquires control over southern Italy, first through a protectorate a la Egypt, Judea, Pergamon, Bosporus you name it, and then by annexing it.
This is precious time for the Oscan language: aside from its administrative use, a proper literature has the chance to emerge (the logical starting point is an account of the Social War) giving it the needed literary prestige, maybe the Italic alphabet is replaced with the Greek one, and by the time Rome has reacquired control over the south, there is a strong enough local identity.
Romanization does happen either through adoption of Latin by some elites or by immigration of Roman citizens, but it is a limited and possibly reversible kind, similar to Albania's or Greece's where its Romance population is limited to Vlachs.
This brings us to the post-Roman period, eventually. Any power intent on ruling all of the peninsula will use Latin as its official language, just as in Gaul and Spain for example, but a smaller state might preserve its legitimacy by using Oscan as a working language. I can picture southern Italy under Odoacer, Theodoric, the early Byzantines and the unified Lombard kingdom using Latin, but the moment the Lombard kingdom fractures, the dukes of Benevento (see: Malies) first and then Salerno (see: Irna), Capua (see: Kapu) etc might consider the use of the local language. Even the Normans might follow suit.
Another outcome of this is a different perception of what constitutes Italy. To us it is logical to assume the entire peninsula is Italy, but in fact the name made its way north only over time, and the existence of a state called Italia right on Rome's doorstep inevitably alters the perception of what constitutes Italy. By now, we would call only the south Italy, and maybe the whole peninsula including it with another name such as Hesperia.
I cooked this up in like 20 minutes as I typed.
Ok, brainstorming time.
We know that Oscan was still spoken in probably multiethnic 79 AC Pompeii, which implies that the language was preserved by the mountaineers for at least another century or two though we have no Oscan inscriptions from the late empire, but the similarity with Latin makes its extinction inevitable at some point or another - as long as continued Roman rule remains.
Which means that, maybe, it is Roman rule that we have to wipe out first. Let the socii win the Social War somehow, have an Italic, Oscan-speaking state right on Rome's doorstep in southern Italy for some time. Maybe the socii can sign an alliance with Mithridates VI in time (this was actually planned OTL but iirc the envoys reached him only by the time the war ended in 88 BC though unrest would continue until 82 when the former socii sided with Marius and almost destroyed Rome at the Colline Gate). Maybe the Romans refuse to hand out citizenship until too late, and IOTL it was citizenship which divided the allied front since some were fighting to acquire it and some others simply wanted out of their alliance with Rome.
How Rome solves its inevitable manpower issues considering that southern Italians made up half of its forces is up for debate. Another issue that presents itself is the connection with Greek cities such as Taras and Rhegion, which never revolted.
Maybe they make up for it with Cisalpine Gauls, Illyrians and perhaps Spanish tribes - after dealing with Sertorious, or maybe they extend citizenship to non-Romans and Italics earlier, learning from the mistake of the Social War. Either way, Rome makes up for this loss and, in due time - a century and a half or less - it reacquires control over southern Italy, first through a protectorate a la Egypt, Judea, Pergamon, Bosporus you name it, and then by annexing it.
This is precious time for the Oscan language: aside from its administrative use, a proper literature has the chance to emerge (the logical starting point is an account of the Social War) giving it the needed literary prestige, maybe the Italic alphabet is replaced with the Greek one, and by the time Rome has reacquired control over the south, there is a strong enough local identity.
Romanization does happen either through adoption of Latin by some elites or by immigration of Roman citizens, but it is a limited and possibly reversible kind, similar to Albania's or Greece's where its Romance population is limited to Vlachs.
This brings us to the post-Roman period, eventually. Any power intent on ruling all of the peninsula will use Latin as its official language, just as in Gaul and Spain for example, but a smaller state might preserve its legitimacy by using Oscan as a working language. I can picture southern Italy under Odoacer, Theodoric, the early Byzantines and the unified Lombard kingdom using Latin, but the moment the Lombard kingdom fractures, the dukes of Benevento (see: Malies) first and then Salerno (see: Irna), Capua (see: Kapu) etc might consider the use of the local language. Even the Normans might follow suit.
Another outcome of this is a different perception of what constitutes Italy. To us it is logical to assume the entire peninsula is Italy, but in fact the name made its way north only over time, and the existence of a state called Italia right on Rome's doorstep inevitably alters the perception of what constitutes Italy. By now, we would call only the south Italy, and maybe the whole peninsula including it with another name such as Hesperia.
I cooked this up in like 20 minutes as I typed.
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Alright, this relates to a TL that I've been working on, but oh well
en.wikipedia.org
The Old Prussians were Baltic peoples who inhabited Prussia before the Germans came in during the 1200s. They worshiped pre-Christians pagan gods much like their Lithuanian neighbors and spoke their own unique language. When the Teutonic Knights invaded during the 1230s, the Old Prussians resisted, but eventually fell anyway. Although Prussia was settled by Germans, monks and knight still took an interest in learning the Prussian language, hence why its language is still with us. Sadly, the language became extinct by the 1700s.
Old Prussians - Wikipedia
The Old Prussians were Baltic peoples who inhabited Prussia before the Germans came in during the 1200s. They worshiped pre-Christians pagan gods much like their Lithuanian neighbors and spoke their own unique language. When the Teutonic Knights invaded during the 1230s, the Old Prussians resisted, but eventually fell anyway. Although Prussia was settled by Germans, monks and knight still took an interest in learning the Prussian language, hence why its language is still with us. Sadly, the language became extinct by the 1700s.
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By the 19th century, Dalmatian was on death's door already - in fact, it began to lose ground to Croatian quite early on, to such an extent that the leadership of the Republic of Ragusa had to be reminded to speak in the local Romance dialect while in the Senate, rather than in the Slavic vernacular. Having Ragusa somehow conquer the whole of Dalmatia, with the Dinaric Alps becoming the border between the Romance and Slavic worlds, might help the Ragusan variety of the Dalmatian language survive.
A Rule of Cool option, would be for Julius Nepos' domain in Dalmatia to survive - first, as a rump WRE propped up by the ERE, then as a province of the ERE, and finally as an independent polity, if the ERE declines just as it did IRL.
What needs to be prevented is the large-scale Slavic migration from the war-torn areas of Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia. The Ottoman Empire either needs to be stopped more South, or it quickly needs to conquer everything in the area and beyond, so the war zone is much further away from the South Slavic lands and Dalmatian cities.
Wasn't Dalmatian already declining by then?
Without those migrations however, Chakavian could emerge as the South Slavic standard in Dalmatia, instead of being confined to not much more than a few islands along the coast, and Kajkavian could win out over Shtokavian as the Croatian literary standard (after all, the earliest Croatian literature was penned in Kajkavian); so, you wouldn't have a Serbo-Croatian language at all because, if Croatia still falls under Hungarian and eventually Austrian rule, the similarities between Kajkavian and Slovenian could result in the former absorbing the latter, similarly to how Aragonese was displaced by Castillian, while Chakavian would absorb even more influences from a relatively stronger Dalmatian Romance language and, eventually, Venetian - the same thing could happen to the Shtokavian variety spoken in Montenegro.
The ATL Balkans could eventually look like this:
Croatia (Croatia proper + Slovenia, maybe Slavonia too) - Catholic, Kajkavian-speaking
Dalmatia (Dalmatia, maybe Istria too) - Catholic, Chakavian-speaking, Dalmatian and Venetian minority
Bosnia (Bosnia + Herzegovina) - Bosnian Church (could it eventually join the Protestant fold?), Western Shtokavian-speaking
Serbia (Serbia + Montenegro) - Orthodox, Eastern Shtokavian-speaking
Of course, it'd be a Czech/Slovak situation, in that the various varieties would be mutually intelligible, if distinct.
Dalmatian was already nearby extinct in 19th century. Its last speaker even learnt the language when he managed to listened secretly his parents or grandparents. Probably no one even spoke him Dalmatian directly.
The Old Prussians weren't Slavic; they were Balts & the closest surviving modern languages are Lithuanian & Latvian.Alright, this relates to a TL that I've been working on, but oh well
Old Prussians - Wikipedia
The Old Prussians were the slavic peoples who inhabited Prussia before the Germans came in during the 1200s. They worshiped pre-Christians pagan gods much like their Lithuanian neighbors and spoke their own unique language. When the Teutonic Knights invaded during the 1230s, the Old Prussians resisted, but eventually fell anyway. Although Prussia was settled by Germans, monks and knight still took an interest in learning the Prussian language, hence why its language is still with us. Sadly, the language became extinct by the 1700s.
Thank you for the correction, I have altered my post accordingly.
I know, I was talking about the alternate scenario. Less migration = Dalmatian retains more weight in the region = less assimilatory pressure = the language survives(, even if only barely).