Salvos at Savo

What is the problem with the flying boats?
Is a calm sea provinding too much contact area with floats or is something else going on?
As a non-naval person I'm struggling to work out how depth charges can help with anything that needs to stay in one piece afterwards.
 
What is the problem with the flying boats?
Is a calm sea provinding too much contact area with floats or is something else going on?
As a non-naval person I'm struggling to work out how depth charges can help with anything that needs to stay in one piece afterwards.

Its a friction thing. I don't have the depth on knowledge in hydrodynamics to give concise details Suffice to say crossing waves reduces the friction/drag from the water. Waves reduce the contact are between the water and float surface. A secondary thing is when there are low waves there usual less wind.
 
Its a friction thing. I don't have the depth on knowledge in hydrodynamics to give concise details Suffice to say crossing waves reduces the friction/drag from the water. Waves reduce the contact are between the water and float surface. A secondary thing is when there are low waves there usual less wind.
That makes sense.
Thanks
 
Subsurface @50-70 foot depending on water conditions, surface disturbance larger, and water spout as much as 50 foot into the air. Now off Tulagi there is a shallow bottom. a number of damaged American ships took refuge there where grounding would have been possible. A shallow bottom will reflect the blast back upwards.
 
0140 9 August 1942, - Fish away
0140, 9 August 1942, IJN Chokai, off Guadalcanal

Mikawa gave the order and Chokai fired eight torpedoes at the lead allied cruiser. One minute later, other cruisers started launching as well. Most were launched at Canberra and Chicago, with a single launch targeting Hobart. Australia, still at the rear of the allied formation, was missed. A minute before, Mikawa had ordered his float-planes, two of which were still aloft, to drop flares over Southern Force. As soon as the flares activated, his gunnery crews, already closed up, would open fire.
 
0143 9 August 1942 - Patterson reponds
0143, 9 August 1942, USS Patterson, off Guadalcanal

Southern Force were on course 310., four miles south of Savo Island. It was near the Northern end of their patrol, the ships due to reverse course soon. Canberra was leading, Chicago 600 yards astern, Hobart 700 more astern and finally Australia 1000 yards astern of her. Patterson was 45° and 1500 yards off the port bow, Bagley in the same relative position on the starboard bow. Stuart was still near Australia, off the port bow of the cruiser.

Patterson's crew was alert because Commander Frank R. Walker, the destroyer's captain, took seriously the earlier sightings of Japanese warships and evening sightings of unknown aircraft, telling his crew to be ready for action. At 01:43, the watch on the bridge sighted a ship dead ahead. It was estimated 5,000 yards distant, on a Southeasterly course and close to Savo Island. Walker immediately notified Canberra, Hobart and Chicago by signal light and broadcast by TBS to all ships, including the flagship: "Warning, warning, strange ships entering harbor." At the same time she turned to port to unmask her guns and torpedo batteries.

Within 90 seconds, the enemy changed course East, following the shore of Savo Island closely. With the change of course two ships could be seen. One the lookout identified as a Mogami Class heavy cruiser, the second a Jintsu Class light cruiser. When their movement and Patterson's turn, brought the Japanese cruisers were at a bearing of 070 and a range of 2,000 yards Walker ordered "Fire torpedoes," but at the same instant the destroyer's guns opened fire, so that the order was unheard and no torpedoes left the tubes. At the same time, an object was reported close on the port bow and the captain ran to the wing of the bridge to investigate, but was not able to make out anything. By the time Walker returned 30 seconds later, all hell had broken loose.
 
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Ouch. 2,000 yards? This one's going to be a knife-fight in a phone booth - and the Japanese have got their stab in first.
 
0145 9 August 1942 - Canberra responds
0145, 9 August 1942, HMAS Canberra, off Guadalcanal

The bright flares dropped from the float-planes hung over the allied cruisers. They were in a straight line, evenly spaced and about almost a mile apart, providing strong and continuous illumination which silhouetted the allied ships. The flares large, blue-white and intensely brilliant. They burned without flickering and lighted up the entire area.

Just as Collins orders were coming in by talk between ships, urging all ships to engage instantly. Captain Frank Getting and Canberra responded immediately, despite the ship being only at condition two. He ordered an increase in speed, a reversal of an initial turn to port, to keep Canberra between the Japanese and the Allied transports, and for her guns to train out and fire at any targets that could be sighted.

Thanks to the prompt action of Commander Walker and Patterson, who fired opening salvos of two four-gun star shell spreads, some ships could be seen, even though only two of Patterson's eight fired star shells worked as designed. Less than a minute later, as Canberra's 8 inch guns began to bear on the Japanese ships, X turret firing at 0146, along with her port 4 inch guns. It was too little, too late.
 
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0145 9 August 1942 - Bagley fires torpedos
0145, 9 August 1942, USS Bagley, off Guadalcanal

The destroyer Bagley, like the Patterson, was ordered by her Captain, Commander Earl Morris, to swung hard left so as to fire torpedoes. In less than a minute the enemy was abeam, about 2,000 yards distant, but before the primers could be inserted in the starboard torpedo battery, the Bagley had turned past her safe firing bearing. She therefore continued her turn to the left to bring the port tubes to bear. This required another two minutes. By this time the range had increased to 3,000 yards and she fired at the last enemy cruiser in line, an indistinct target.
 
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0146 9 August 1942, - Canberra hit and badly
0146, 9 August 1942, HMAS Canberra, off Guadalcanal

A storm of shells arrived, impacting the heavy cruiser along her length. The whole ship shuddered under the bursting steel. Within two minutes, she was hit by 24 eight inch and seven five-inch shells. The P1 4 inch gun lifted under a direct hit that ripped it to slivers. The bridge caught a shell that wrecked it's instruments and badly wounded Frank Getting. Although incapacitated, he refused to leave the bridge, although he ordered his XO, Commander J.A Walsh to take command. The plane on the catapult took a direct hit, burning fiercely. A fire ignited the pom- pom ready use ammunition, which exploded outwards like red hot meteors.

Fires started immediately, aluminium kit lockers spilling over, melting and spilling their contents out to add to the fires. Below decks and in the sick bay, wounded lay everywhere. Commander Walsh ordered the main magazines flooded before the flames reached them. A torpedo gunners mate fought the flames to fire all her tubes before the flames could reach her torpedoes. By 0148, she was aflame end to end, her portholes, with dead-lights lifted in many cases by the blasts and pressure, glowing like eyes.

All this was compounded when, at 0149, two of the four torpedoes fired by USS Bagley, having missed the last Japanese cruiser in line, slammed into Canberra's starboard side, filling her engineering spaces with acrid smoke and causing her to lose all power. She was still afloat, but finished as a combatant.
 
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0146 9 August 1942, - Patterson exchanges fire
0146 9 August 1942, USS Patterson, off Guadalcanal

Patterson's had opened fire with AP projectiles, the gunnery officer Richard Wicks actually seeing the rear enemy cruiser(Tenryu) fire a spread of torpedoes. Two enemy light cruisers illuminated the destroyer with searchlights and opened fire. One 5.5 inch shell hit the No.4 gun shelter and the ignited ready service powder. Within a minute, the aft of the ship was enveloped in flames and No.3 and 4 guns were put out of action, No 4 only temporarily. Patterson was now zigzagging at high speed, while a torpedo zipped past less than 50 yards on her starboard quarter. She then steadied out on an Easterly course, roughly parallel to that of the enemy. Her No.1 and 2 guns maintained a rapid and accurate fire, in which No.4 soon rejoined. The rear enemy cruiser(Tenryu) was hit three times, its searchlights extinguished and a fire began to burn amidships.
 
0147 9 August 1942 - Chicago comes awake
0147 9 August 1942, USS Chicago, off Guadalcanal

The previous day, the subject of the report of enemy ships had come up on Chicago. When the Chicago’s navigator plotted the coordinates of the enemy naval squadron, Bode’s executive officer, Commander Cecil Adell, determined that it was too far away to reach the Chicago’s patrol area before mid-morning on the following day. He made some errors, but did not account for Mikawa coming hard at almost 30 knots. Captain Howard Bode had retired to his cabin behind the pilothouse for a nap at 1145, confident no attack could come that night. Whilst doing so, he ordered his radar officer to turn off the Chicago’s search radar for fear that Japanese ships might detect and trace the beams.

He was surprised to be shaken awake at 0144, quickly coming onto the bridge at 0145. Howard Bode, newly awake, did not known what to make of reports of torpedoes running to both port and starboard. Bode barked out "Fire star-shell, all turrets, we need to see what is out there." It was a perfectly reasonable command, but was to produce little in the way of results. Prior to the war, the U.S navy had placed only limited importance on night fighting, especially for smaller units. In the 1930's, some "fleet problems" ran simulations of nighttime torpedo attacks by “Orange” destroyers against the “Blue” fleet. Although these attacks were sometimes successful, the game rules did not favor them. The torpedoes were assigned short effective ranges of 9,000 yards, but U.S. capital ships or cruisers struck by a single torpedo incurred little impairment, only a speed reduction. Considering the small warheads on U.S torpedoes , this was not an unreasonable assumption. Against Japanese torpedoes, it was a fatal assumption. “Orange” destroyers nearly always suffered high losses, leading game observers to the erroneous conclusion that such strikes were not worth the cost for the attacker. The spin off was that star-shells were rarely used and the stocks thus held were usually past their nominal expiry date. When Chicago fired nine shells at 0146, not a single one functioned. At 0147, Bode ordered his rudder hard to port, as Chicago labored to answer the bell to make speed. A second salvo of star-shells at 0147 finally produced a solitary shell that actually worked.

At 0147, a shell from Aoba struck the leg of her mainmast, killing two sailors, including the chief boatswain’s mate, wounding thirteen more, including the exec, Commander Adell, who was hit in the throat. A second 5.5 inch from Tenryu struck the bow, exploding in the chain locker, sending fragments everywhere. A torpedo fired from a full salvo from Kako struck the ship to starboard, detaching the bow and vibrating the rest of the ship hard enough to disjoint the main battery director. Gunners on her five-inch secondary battery, firing without orders now, managed to hit an enemy ship, attracted by flames already licking her midships. The Tenryu, already damaged, was hit yet again, killing 23 men, in addition to the 13 she had already lost, starting more fires on the trailing Japanese ship.
 
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0144 9 August 1942, - Northern Force under threat
0144 9 August 1942, IJN Chokai, off Guadalcanal

Mikawa's cruisers had turned towards Northern Force and split, Yubari, followed by Tenryu and then Furataka, had turned to course 350, Mikawa leading in Chokai, continuing on for almost two minutes before he turned due North. It would allow the Allied Northern force was about to be enveloped and attacked from two sides. At 0146 and 0147 respectively, the two Japanese cruiser formations, aside from Tenryu, who had expended her torpedoes, launched a salvo of torpedoes at Northern Force.

At 0118, Northern Force had turned onto course 315. A change was due around 0150, but at 0143 Vincennes, as senior ship, ordered by TBS that the course be held until 0200. Both the Quincy and Wilson had difficulty in receiving these orders and they needed to be repeated several times. Thus the orders and their acknowledgment occupied the TBS for several minutes. It was at a critical time, Collins trying to make contact with Northern Force between 0145 and 0147. Both Quincy and Vincennes had received Patterson's TBS warning at 0146, but this had taken some time to reach senior bridge officers, who were distracted when a lookout on the main deck aft saw a submarine surface and then submerge about 600 yards distant on the port quarter. It was later shown to be a whale. Finally, in response to the submarine and flares seen at 0145, the Captain was awoken from where he was asleep in his emergency cabin adjoining the pilot house. He arrived just in time to receive Patterson's TBS "Warning, warning, strange ships entering the harbor." This was immediately followed by Collins TBS "General alert. Am engaging enemy heavy ships, alert Northern Force, course due North, speed 30." By the time he had received both transmissions, Japanese torpedoes were already in the water.
 
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0145 9 August 1942 - Eastern Force reacts
0145 9 August 1942, USS San Juan, off Guadalcanal

The new USN light cruiser was leading HMAS Adelaide, with two destroyers, Monssen and Buchanan, on either flank. The Eastern Force under Norman Scott received far less TBS chatter, use of which was poorly controlled. At 0145, Rear Admiral Norman Scott, still awake and on the bridge of the new cruiser, received from Collins "under attack, please provide immediate assistance. By 0147, Scott had his four ships heading West, an impressive feat from the combative Admiral. However, they were 18 nautical miles or 37,000 yards from Collin's force.
 
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0148 9 August 1942 - The allies start to hit back
0148 9 August 1942, HMAS Australia, off Guadalcanal

Canberra, by virtue of being lead ship, had borne the brunt of the Japanese attack. Chicago had also taken damage, but much less. Hobart, third ship in line, had witnessed three torpedoes pass her by, two to port, one to starboard. They were part of a salvo of four from Yubari. None were to hit. Hobart took a single 5.5 inch hit from Yubari that turned the ships boat to splinters and started a small fire amidships, yet caused no other damage. The ship had been at condition 2, only two turrets manned, although the other gun crews were close at hand. At 0148, she was to respond with her first salvo at the Japanese, but was not able to achieve any hits.

Similarly, HMAS Stuart, near the flagship, fired three torpedoes at 0148. Hobart also fired four more. None were to hit. Australia, however, was at full alert, much like Patterson, also thanks to her skipper. The Aussie as she was known to her crew, had fought for almost the entire duration of the war so far, her crew largely unchanged, most regulars that had been part of her crew when she won gunnery awards pre war. As the Japanese cruisers swung North, they placed their sterns directly towards the ship's broadside. She picked out the outline of the last ship behind the burning Tenryu, the heavy cruiser Furataka. Her first broadside at 0147 fell short, her second right, her third landed two shells on Furataka, one hitting at the base of No. 3 turret, jamming it in train. A second shell obliterated her aircraft on it's catapult, starting fires and igniting petrol stored for the aircraft nearby. It was uncomfortably close to the torpedo launchers to port.
 
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mattep74

Kicked
0148 9 August 1942, HMAS Australia, off Guadalcanal
A second shell obliterated her aircraft on it's catapult, starting fires and igniting petrol stored for the aircraft nearby. It was uncomfortably close to the torpedo launchers to port.
I expect a big BOOOOOM
 
Something I hadn't realised until I read this and checked OTL accounts of the battles was how fast things unfolded once the shooting started - 3 minutes to wreck Canberra - and how little space there was between the Japanese drive-by on Southern Force and their attack on Northern Force. No time for anyone who wasn't alert to catch up with the situation - and a very brutal lesson in how dangerous it is to be caught napping in a close-quarters night action.
 
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