Sails in Pre-Columbian North America

[Atom]

In OTL sails were limited in spread in Pre-Columbian America. They could have been very useful, especially for the more maritime peoples in NA. The three I can think of most are the:
a) Pacific North westerners. Maybe they could have larger whale hunts? In OTL these peoples adopted sails very quickly from Europeans
b) The Chumash/Tongva peoples who lived in the OTL LA area. They had plank built boats called toloms, so maybe they could create a larger trade network on the Pacific coast?
c) the Calusa. In OTL they had a thriving state fed by the sea.

So what if in ATL sails had appeared in North America before 1492, preferably spreading to the Northwest by about that time, as I think that way we can make the most of sails.

Also, I think Baja California and Newfoundland could benefit from faster maritime transport, due to the large fisheries near it. Perhaps the Europeans would meet Beothuk fishers in the grand banks as first contact?

 

[Ofaloaf]

Dunno, was thinking of the Pacific Northwesterners coming across some Chinese folk, or Siberians, who whoever was in Northern Russia in the early to mid 1400s. Mongols?

 

[ninebucks]

A Carribean Sea with a maritime trade network as developed as that of the Mediterranean would be very interesting...

 

[freodhoric]

How about Chimu/Polynesian contact? With sails, i could see Chimu rafts trading up and down the Pacific coast. If the Chimu traded with western Mexico (Tarascans, Mixtec), Chimu bronze could have kept the Mixtec free from the Aztec.

Some ATL thoughts on Chimu/Mexican trade
http://members.aol.com/althist2/aug00/perumexico.htm

 

[mojojojo]

Yes it would be interesting to see the results of Long Term NA Polynesian contact.

 

[Admiral Brown]

How about Chimu/Polynesian contact? With sails, i could see Chimu rafts trading up and down the Pacific coast. If the Chimu traded with western Mexico (Tarascans, Mixtec), Chimu bronze could have kept the Mixtec free from the Aztec.

Some ATL thoughts on Chimu/Mexican trade
http://members.aol.com/althist2/aug00/perumexico.htm

I had an idea of doing something like this. But it's already written!

My idea was that somehow the Huro Indians in Titicaca lake rebell, and the Incas defeat them and deport them near the Chimu-Incan border (as they did with rebellious groups). There, many escape to Chimu, who gladly recieves them, taking their boat-construction tecnology with them. They had boats made of a plant similar to Bambu (I don't know its name in English). Some guy built a ship and proved it were able to travell long distances in the Pacific Ocean.

There's still a problem on how they get the materials needed to build their boats, as I don't think this plant grows in the Pacific Coast ... but there's surely a way to deal with this.

 

[freodhoric]

I had an idea of doing something like this. But it's already written!

My idea was that somehow the Huro Indians in Titicaca lake rebell, and the Incas defeat them and deport them near the Chimu-Incan border (as they did with rebellious groups). There, many escape to Chimu, who gladly recieves them, taking their boat-construction tecnology with them.

I've never heard it done like that! I'd like to read it.

They had boats made of a plant similar to Bambu (I don't know its name in English).

Chimu rafts are usually referred to as being constructed of balsa.

They had boats made of a plant similar to Bambu (I don't know its name in English). Some guy built a ship and proved it were able to travell long distances in the Pacific Ocean.

My money says you're thinking Thor Heyerdahl and the Kon-Tiki. I've got a copy around here somewhere.

http://www.kon-tiki.no/Expeditions/

The balsa wood raft Kon-Tiki was built as a copy of a prehistoric South American vessel. Constructed of nine balsa logs collected from Equador, a crew of six men sailed the raft from Callao in Peru the 28th of April 1947 and landed on the island of Raroia in Polynesia after 101 days. This successful voyage of c.4300 miles proved that the islands in Polynesia were within the range of this type of prehistoric South American vessel.

There's still a problem on how they get the materials needed to build their boats, as I don't think this plant grows in the Pacific Coast ... but there's surely a way to deal with this.

I'm sure there's an indigenous plant that would work.

 

[Burton K Wheeler]

I had an idea of doing something like this. But it's already written!

My idea was that somehow the Huro Indians in Titicaca lake rebell, and the Incas defeat them and deport them near the Chimu-Incan border (as they did with rebellious groups). There, many escape to Chimu, who gladly recieves them, taking their boat-construction tecnology with them. They had boats made of a plant similar to Bambu (I don't know its name in English). Some guy built a ship and proved it were able to travell long distances in the Pacific Ocean.

There's still a problem on how they get the materials needed to build their boats, as I don't think this plant grows in the Pacific Coast ... but there's surely a way to deal with this.

They're called Totora reeds, and the Huros made them into bundles which they used like logs. I think they'd have little problem adapting to making wooden boats using similar techniques.

 

[Atom]

Thanks for all the replies!

Dunno, was thinking of the Pacific Northwesterners coming across some Chinese folk, or Siberians, who whoever was in Northern Russia in the early to mid 1400s. Mongols?

Hmmm. But then wouldn't it be another "WI china found America" thread? The other way along that orute is to have a ship from East Asia land relatively intact on the west coast. Hopefully the NW as they had dealt with things from the sea before (In OTL the NWesterners used iron washed up on the shore for tools and such. Theres a really cool suit of armor made of Chinese coins I've seen). I don't think thats too plausible though.

A Carribean Sea with a maritime trade network as developed as that of the Mediterranean would be very interesting...

I agree. They could probably extend from the Chesapeake to the Amazon. I wonder how much these societies could be affected by these new traders,raiders. Bronze Age America was actually a good TL about this. Its from SHWI I think.

Yes it would be interesting to see the results of Long Term NA Polynesian contact.

I tried that once. The main reason I stopped was because it was likely to lead to a mass die off in both worlds as new diseases rise up in America.

How about Chimu/Polynesian contact? With sails, i could see Chimu rafts trading up and down the Pacific coast. If the Chimu traded with western Mexico (Tarascans, Mixtec), Chimu bronze could have kept the Mixtec free from the Aztec.

Some ATL thoughts on Chimu/Mexican trade
http://members.aol.com/althist2/aug00/perumexico.htm

I had an idea of doing something like this. But it's already written!

My idea was that somehow the Huro Indians in Titicaca lake rebell, and the Incas defeat them and deport them near the Chimu-Incan border (as they did with rebellious groups). There, many escape to Chimu, who gladly recieves them, taking their boat-construction tecnology with them. They had boats made of a plant similar to Bambu (I don't know its name in English). Some guy built a ship and proved it were able to travell long distances in the Pacific Ocean.

There's still a problem on how they get the materials needed to build their boats, as I don't think this plant grows in the Pacific Coast ... but there's surely a way to deal with this.

Write it! Just because some one else wrote a TL doesn't mean you can't either. You could also carry into the future! Please write it! I think that would be (a long with 5500 years) the second TL about pre-Columbian America still running (please tell me I'm wrong).

 

[mojojojo]

I agree. They could probably extend from the Chesapeake to the Amazon. I wonder how much these societies could be affected by these new traders,raiders. Bronze Age America was actually a good TL about this. Its from SHWI I think.

Would this be a feature of your 5500 TL?