Philip
Donor
Check in this thread. I am fairly certain there are a few maps of Europe in 1740 posted there.
Rule Bavaria: An Alternate War of the Austrian Succession
- Thread starter Communist Wizard
- Start date
This is a rough map of the thingy.
Edit as you will.
As you can see, I gave the whole of Austria to Bavaria, as well as Bohemia. Hungary stays the same. Milan, Ntherlands, stays as question mark for now. I've give Bavaria some enclaves that might go to another power, and I know I've messed up Silesia.
Edit as you will.
As you can see, I gave the whole of Austria to Bavaria, as well as Bohemia. Hungary stays the same. Milan, Ntherlands, stays as question mark for now. I've give Bavaria some enclaves that might go to another power, and I know I've messed up Silesia.
A Habsburg implosion at this time is probably the Bourbon's most wet dream ever. In the WoAS the French seized the whole Austrian Netherlands but gave them back in the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle. The French people had assumed that the AN had been already annexed into the kingdom and defined the peace as stupid. If the Habsburg empire goes down in TTL I suppose France would have retained the AN, which places her northern border dangerously near the Rhine. This is going to severely annoy Britain and the Netherlands. Meanwhile, Milan could follow a path similar to other Austrian territories in northern Italy and end up carved beween Parma and Savoy, or being made an independent state under a son of Philip V of Spain (like Parma itself was). In OTL Philip had a fourth son that didn't receive a crown, Luis. He was a monk at that time but apparently not very enthusiastic as he left the habits some years later, and even attempted to became king of Spain after the death of Ferdinand VI without success. No idea what could happen to Hungary.
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I'm reading this, and I am thinking, well, can't you just vassalize A, then move to get a Royal Marriage with B, and then go to war against C?
EU3 is corrupting my brain!
EU3 is corrupting my brain!
First of all,
.(I feel like I'm setting up Rule Francaise here, not Rule Bavaria. Oh well, butterflies account for a lot...
)Yes, I think what you propose may happen. I'll tinker around with the Luis idea.
I dont think that the habsburgs could maintain control of hungary without the Austrian parts of the empire, the magyars didnt really enjoy being ruled by the hapsburgs
The kingdom in Hungary is independent, I just didn't bother to recolor it...
I don't know if this was how things worked on Hungary at this time, but do you think the Hungarian nobles could elect one of their own as king and start a new dynasty?
First of all,
(I feel like I'm setting up Rule Francaise here, not Rule Bavaria. Oh well, butterflies account for a lot...
Yes, I think what you propose may happen. I'll tinker around with the Luis idea.
Just realized of another thing:
If the French don't pull out of the Austrian Netehrlands, the British will retain Madras and Louisbourg (see here). So you have changed the development of British presence in India and North America, and in the case of the latter you have butterflied one of the first things that annoyed the British colonials (return of Louisbourg). Seems that a decent % of the seeds of the French and American revolutions were originally comments about how stupid Aix-la-Chapelle was.
Rockingham
Banned
Wrong. The French had occupied Madras before the treaty....if the British don't return Loiusbourg, then the French won't have a reason to return Madras.Just realized of another thing:
If the French don't pull out of the Austrian Netehrlands, the British will retain Madras and Louisbourg (see here). So you have changed the development of British presence in India and North America, and in the case of the latter you have butterflied one of the first things that annoyed the British colonials (return of Louisbourg). Seems that a decent % of the seeds of the French and American revolutions were originally comments about how stupid Aix-la-Chapelle was.
Rockingham
Banned
Well the Hungarians did offer the Hohenzohlerns(sic) the throne at one point...although I'm not sure if Cathlocism was firm enough in Hungary by the WoAS for this to be impossible.
Still, a "Prussian" Silesia and Hungary, a Bavarian Austria and Croatia, a partition of Bohemia between(the alternative being war)....would seem a slightly plausible turnout of events...... perhaps Milan could be given to the Duke of Lorraine in exhange for an early annexation of the territory(Lorraine) by France, actually.
Hey guys! I've decided we've gotten the carveup of MOST of the Hapsburg turkey like this:
-Bavaria gets the big parts, namely Austria and an Adriatic port (this nabs us a good trade link too). And most of Bohemia.
-Prussia gets Silesia (both parts) and parts of Bohemia.
-Hungary drifts off on it's own (Rockingham, Prussian Hungary doesn't seem likelly to me...)
-France seems to get the Austrian Netherlands, which will piss off Britain and Netherlands. This is up for question, as they may/may not retain it.
-Salzburg is up in the air. They are surrounded by Bavaria, and in the end they'll be a Bavarian autonomous district or something.
-Then we have other mostly French things such as Milan and Lorraine, which may or may not be minor.
Add, please.
-Bavaria gets the big parts, namely Austria and an Adriatic port (this nabs us a good trade link too). And most of Bohemia.
-Prussia gets Silesia (both parts) and parts of Bohemia.
-Hungary drifts off on it's own (Rockingham, Prussian Hungary doesn't seem likelly to me...)
-France seems to get the Austrian Netherlands, which will piss off Britain and Netherlands. This is up for question, as they may/may not retain it.
-Salzburg is up in the air. They are surrounded by Bavaria, and in the end they'll be a Bavarian autonomous district or something.
-Then we have other mostly French things such as Milan and Lorraine, which may or may not be minor.
Add, please.
Hmm. I'd have guessed at an independent Bohemia, truncated somewhat by Prussia's claims on Bohemia, admittedly. Bohemia's spent the last two hundred years trying to get rid of the oppressive powers, after all, so I doubt they'd be so happy to bow down to Bavarian rule.
No arguments from me.
Again, no arguments from me (and since Rockingham went nuts and was banned, he won't argue either.)
Good. Ignore the people who say "this would upset people" - European peace treaties are not about resolving conflicts, they are about providing a casus belli for the next war. Why else would we be so terrible at actually being peaceful?
Not just yet, of course, but I agree that eventually Bavaria will have effectively annexed the region. I suspect they'd take an Austrian approach and sneak it in as part of a Vienna-type "redrawing the map of Europe" treaty.
I suspect France would take Lorraine, and you'd have Milan being contested between France and Savoy for a few decades until the next war.
True, but in OTL the Bavarians took Bohemia (Charles V styled himself first Archduke of Austria, but when they switch to attacking Bohemia instead -POD is that they attack Vienna- he's instead Archduke/King/whatever of Bohemia.) And no one really stopped him except the Austrians. So... I really dont think Bohemia goes off on it's own. Besides, the name is 'Rule Bavaria', so we'll have to devise a way for Charles V to keep it!
OK.
OK. Yes, that was strange...
Yep. Thouigh the French don't exactly want people ganging up on them, but they also want the AN... So they'll have to fight for it later.
True.
Tue. And the 7 Years war happens in what, 10-20 years?
Of course, the more I'm setting uopo Bavaria, I'm effectively setting up France as well... argh. We need to take out those French somehow!
I guess like a lot of people, I am not buying Bavaria as a great power. Once they knock Austria out of the war, I see a middling peace. Austria excluded from HRE which is now headed by Bavaria which will also get some Austrian territories like Innbruck and Tyrol. Bavaria will also lose the support of France and Prussia thereby stalling its conquest of the hereditary lands of Austria...sorry.
Far more interesting to me is a stronger showing by Austria in the war. How about Austria cannot retrieve Silesia but also cannot be expelled from a conquered Bavaria which was occupied by the armies of Maria Theresa at one point.
Could MT secure a peace ceding Silesia but keeping Bavaria. Could the Wittelsbachs be compensated in Lombardy or Belgium (which would be garrisoned by the Dutch)?
What would the implications be for the second half of the 18th century?
Far more interesting to me is a stronger showing by Austria in the war. How about Austria cannot retrieve Silesia but also cannot be expelled from a conquered Bavaria which was occupied by the armies of Maria Theresa at one point.
Could MT secure a peace ceding Silesia but keeping Bavaria. Could the Wittelsbachs be compensated in Lombardy or Belgium (which would be garrisoned by the Dutch)?
What would the implications be for the second half of the 18th century?
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True, but in OTL the Bavarians took Bohemia (Charles V styled himself first Archduke of Austria, but when they switch to attacking Bohemia instead -POD is that they attack Vienna- he's instead Archduke/King/whatever of Bohemia.) And no one really stopped him except the Austrians. So... I really dont think Bohemia goes off on it's own. Besides, the name is 'Rule Bavaria', so we'll have to devise a way for Charles V to keep it!
I see your point.
*dramatic chord*
Smell that, son? Smell that? That's a War of the French Succession. I love the smell of a War of the French Succession in the morning.