Raptor in RAF service

[ivanotter]

or one Challenger vs. 10 T-55's? The comparison is exactly not a one-to-one comparison.

If the price of the F-35 keeps going up, we may see a situation where nobody can afford the optimal number.

Without getting into direct comparisons, we might see that the F-35 is a fantastic jet (as the F-22), but is simply too expensive to be bought in numbers.

What will a buyer in that instance do? Maybe look at numbers of something affordable.

Whether this is the case with Australia going for F/A-18 is a good question.

How many Rafale can UK buy vs what they are planning to buy of F35's? and will it make sense to go for a bigger number of something comparable but less feature rich jets? And it is not saying that Rafale does not compare to F-35. They are in the same envelope.

What features to sacrifice for getting bigger numbers is the balance. what is the trade-off?

.. especially if the bigger number in itself is a quality.

Let us also face it. Numbers are important. There must be a minimum number of jets for a credible defence.

Ivan

 

[deathscompanion1]

Yes but the F-35 could even with its cost over runs massacre the migs and mirages and F-2s that most nations field and neither Russia or Chinese alternatives will ever be cheap enough to by in the thousands necessary for 10:1 odds.

 

[sparky42]

How many Rafale can UK buy vs what they are planning to buy of F35's? and will it make sense to go for a bigger number of something comparable but less feature rich jets? And it is not saying that Rafale does not compare to F-35. They are in the same envelope.

What features to sacrifice for getting bigger numbers is the balance. what is the trade-off?

.. especially if the bigger number in itself is a quality.

Let us also face it. Numbers are important. There must be a minimum number of jets for a credible defence.

Ivan

Well since the Rafale would mean refitting the QE's which even thinking about wasted millions over the last couple of years, along with BAE screaming from high heaven about losing out on development, and the tabloid screaming about buying French and losing UK jobs. I think that has zero chance no matter how crazy the F-35 is going to get. And with the floating suggestions of the Tornado maybe getting extended again who knows what the RAF will end up with.

 

[Cryhavoc101]

Yes, it seems the airline industry is having the same challenge.

One of the major challenges in the F-35 programme seems to be the software.

Would something newer than ADA be an option? I know the reasons for choosing ADA, but... we are talking about something which is at least 40 years old. Newr development sin ADA does not make it into a new language.

Ivan

Software has been a challenge for most modern Aircraft - I once attended as talk on the challenges and resolutions for the Typhoons software during the early 90s - then the most expensive computer programming project in History and the main delays where not so much the difficulty of creating the various sub programes and getting them to work but in getting them to work together as a change in one often resulted in knock on effects in others.

In the end it was a management issue not a programming one.

 

[Nicola]

Software has been a challenge for most modern Aircraft - I once attended as talk on the challenges and resolutions for the Typhoons software during the early 90s - then the most expensive computer programming project in History and the main delays where not so much the difficulty of creating the various sub programes and getting them to work but in getting them to work together as a change in one often resulted in knock on effects in others.

In the end it was a management issue not a programming one.

or prolonged storage and then 'reversion' to a lower spec equivalent tothe D /HC2 model of the RAFs E/HC3 model Chinooks because of mess ups with the software contracts

 

[ivanotter]

That is really the problem: the F-35 is so late that the two carriers might not have anything to fly from them. The Harrier being discontinued is another stroke of absolute genius.

Although the Rafale is the best alternative, it is of course a bit difficult to pass by the UK voters.

'Navalise' the Typhoon has been through the wringer here and is not an option either.

Check-mate

I am not convinced that one F-35 will make mince-meat out of several 'foreign' squadrons. Even so, while one F-35 is busy in one 'quadrant', another handful of foreigners might be somewhere else. That is the beauty of numbers.

Correct that the software development is also a management issue.

The amount of sub-systems which must be certified and interfaced is going up all the time.

That said, I am not convinced that ADA is strong enought to handle the type of modularity required. It would be reasonable to think that something slightly better could have emerged during 40 years of programming.

Ivan