Railroad thread
- Thread starter Duke Andrew of Dank
- Start date
Thought I'd post another preservation-themed post. This time about a more specific subject.
NIAGARA TO APPEAR AT NRHS CONVENTION IN SYRACUSE
Throughout its long history, one thing every attendee of an NRHS Convention can look forward to is seeing one of the large steamers that have been restored, and operate on special excursions for these events. This year's convention at Syracuse, New York will not be an exception by any means; the New York Central Railroad itself has procured the only operating survivor of one of its most iconic classes for the event.
Niagara 4-8-4 #6015 was built as one of the 25 S-1b subclass of Niagaras. These engines were used primarily on mixed-traffic services all across the NYC System. Tests on these machines proved that they event competed with diesels in terms of maintenance efficiency. Even so, the truth was that with the rise of the diesels meant their days would be rather short-lived. 6015 was the last to go due to being used in the place of a failed diesel on an Indianapolis-Cincinnati train. At first, it seemed as if the locomotive would be scrapped, until the Ward Kimball Railroad Preservation Society saved the engine under the supervision of the eponymous Disney Animator, and eventually given to the Indiana Transportation Museum in Logansport.
The 6015 stayed there until June 1967, when the ITM sold off the engine as a way to raise funds for the restoration of Nickel Plate 2-8-2 #587. Eventually, the locomotive found its way to the Lakeshore Preservation Society in Elkhart, IN. At which point the NYC and the preservationists chose to restore the engine for use on public anf employee excursions. The process was a lengthy one, but was completed by July 1984.
What's for sure is that we can expect a smash hit for the rail buffs in Syracuse this August.
- TRAINS MAGAZINE; March 1998 Issue
NIAGARA TO APPEAR AT NRHS CONVENTION IN SYRACUSE
Throughout its long history, one thing every attendee of an NRHS Convention can look forward to is seeing one of the large steamers that have been restored, and operate on special excursions for these events. This year's convention at Syracuse, New York will not be an exception by any means; the New York Central Railroad itself has procured the only operating survivor of one of its most iconic classes for the event.
Niagara 4-8-4 #6015 was built as one of the 25 S-1b subclass of Niagaras. These engines were used primarily on mixed-traffic services all across the NYC System. Tests on these machines proved that they event competed with diesels in terms of maintenance efficiency. Even so, the truth was that with the rise of the diesels meant their days would be rather short-lived. 6015 was the last to go due to being used in the place of a failed diesel on an Indianapolis-Cincinnati train. At first, it seemed as if the locomotive would be scrapped, until the Ward Kimball Railroad Preservation Society saved the engine under the supervision of the eponymous Disney Animator, and eventually given to the Indiana Transportation Museum in Logansport.
The 6015 stayed there until June 1967, when the ITM sold off the engine as a way to raise funds for the restoration of Nickel Plate 2-8-2 #587. Eventually, the locomotive found its way to the Lakeshore Preservation Society in Elkhart, IN. At which point the NYC and the preservationists chose to restore the engine for use on public anf employee excursions. The process was a lengthy one, but was completed by July 1984.
What's for sure is that we can expect a smash hit for the rail buffs in Syracuse this August.
- TRAINS MAGAZINE; March 1998 Issue
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Nice. I can see the 6015 racing along the Water Level Route as part of the event. To Buffalo and return from Syracuse, then to Albany and back, the after the convention a bit of a tour of the eastern NYC, up the line to Montreal to meet up with CN 6060, then double-heading on CNR and NYC tracks to Jersey City, to visit the ARM, then a leisurely trip home back to Elkhart via the back mainlines of the NYC. 
Idea for you: when the 150th anniversary of the transcontinental railroad appears, how about a little show off of the surviving engine from that fateful day (it's in the California Railroad Museum IIRC) flanked by the big fellas of the SP and UP steam power and some historic diesels (a UP Centennial, a SP Alco PA, a UP Turbine, et cetera), with UP 844 and SP 4449 on either side of the survivor, the new famous photograph saying "Here's to another 150 years of building America." (For UP.) and "If this what we could do then, Just imagine what we can do today." (For SP.)
Great ideas. Though first I will probably focus on the other preserved steamers of this TL.
So far, I can see...
- UP 199 (original #343 and replica)
- Jupiter (Original SP #1195 and replica version)
- UP 844
- SP 4449
- UP 4023
- SP 4294
The diesel ideas are good.
Next up is likely going to relate to the PRR/N&W.
That's exactly what I imagined. Furthermore, my TL's Steamtown means they could meet up with CP 2317, CN 3254, and UP 5511 at some point. Plus the DLW Pocono 1632 and 1504 displayed there.Nice. I can see the 6015 racing along the Water Level Route as part of the event. To Buffalo and return from Syracuse, then to Albany and back, the after the convention a bit of a tour of the eastern NYC, up the line to Montreal to meet up with CN 6060, then double-heading on CNR and NYC tracks to Jersey City, to visit the ARM, then a leisurely trip home back to Elkhart via the back mainlines of the NYC.
UNION PACIFIC AND SOUTHERN PACIFIC WILL COLLABORATE ON 150TH TRANSCONTINENTAL RAILROAD CELEBRATION
In celebration of the upcoming 150th Anniversary of the Transcontinental Railroad, the Union Pacific and Southern Pacific have confirmed numerous plans to appeal to the enthusiasts and general public. All of which involve their classic collections of preserved steam and first-generation diesels.
The first major event for these festivities will be on May 10, and involve the two railroads doubleheading their respective big steamers to Promontory. Those being 844 and Big Boy 4023 in the case of Union Pacific and 4449 and Cab Forward #4294 in the case of the Southern Pacific. Union Pacific has also confirmed that the 844 will still be painted in the grey and yellow 'Greyhound' livery, as it has been since 2006.
Also following these doubleheaders will be less significant, but still famous engines of the respective lines. For instance, Union Pacific 4-6-0 #1243, traditionally leased to shortlines, will meet Southern Pacific 4-6-2 #2472 for the first time. Southern Pacific will be giving diesels a share by showing their PAs #6028 and #6038 with a PB Unit #5915, GP9 #5623, as well as their ML 4000 #9010. Union Pacific will not be a slouch regarding diesels either, having set up their Centennial #6936, E7s 949, 951 and 963B, and Gas Turbine #26.
Last but far from least of that the UP and SP will be transporting the original Golden Spike attendees. Those being UP 199, which was since renumbered 343 and demoted to shunting in 1909. As well as the original Jupiter, which was later renumbered #1195 for Southern Pacific. At Promontory, the engines will pose alongside the replicas of the 119 and the Jupiter. The original engines present at the Golden Spike Ceremony in 1869.
Then, all of them will travel to Sacramento for a second event, where they will pose alongside the Gov. Stanford and the C.P. Huntington for another series of photos. Neither company has confirmed a caption for their respective frames, but at this rate nothing can disappoint us.
- TRAINS Magazine; January 2019
Notes:
- The other preserved Cab Forwards include AC-11 #4274 (Display at Pamona) and AC-5 #4150 (Displayed at the IRM)
OOC: Special thanks to @TheMann for suggesting the idea.
In celebration of the upcoming 150th Anniversary of the Transcontinental Railroad, the Union Pacific and Southern Pacific have confirmed numerous plans to appeal to the enthusiasts and general public. All of which involve their classic collections of preserved steam and first-generation diesels.
The first major event for these festivities will be on May 10, and involve the two railroads doubleheading their respective big steamers to Promontory. Those being 844 and Big Boy 4023 in the case of Union Pacific and 4449 and Cab Forward #4294 in the case of the Southern Pacific. Union Pacific has also confirmed that the 844 will still be painted in the grey and yellow 'Greyhound' livery, as it has been since 2006.
Also following these doubleheaders will be less significant, but still famous engines of the respective lines. For instance, Union Pacific 4-6-0 #1243, traditionally leased to shortlines, will meet Southern Pacific 4-6-2 #2472 for the first time. Southern Pacific will be giving diesels a share by showing their PAs #6028 and #6038 with a PB Unit #5915, GP9 #5623, as well as their ML 4000 #9010. Union Pacific will not be a slouch regarding diesels either, having set up their Centennial #6936, E7s 949, 951 and 963B, and Gas Turbine #26.
Last but far from least of that the UP and SP will be transporting the original Golden Spike attendees. Those being UP 199, which was since renumbered 343 and demoted to shunting in 1909. As well as the original Jupiter, which was later renumbered #1195 for Southern Pacific. At Promontory, the engines will pose alongside the replicas of the 119 and the Jupiter. The original engines present at the Golden Spike Ceremony in 1869.
Then, all of them will travel to Sacramento for a second event, where they will pose alongside the Gov. Stanford and the C.P. Huntington for another series of photos. Neither company has confirmed a caption for their respective frames, but at this rate nothing can disappoint us.
- TRAINS Magazine; January 2019
Notes:
- The other preserved Cab Forwards include AC-11 #4274 (Display at Pamona) and AC-5 #4150 (Displayed at the IRM)
OOC: Special thanks to @TheMann for suggesting the idea.
To give some ideas regard early diesel and electric engines, here´s a timeline of some alternate engines that could be built:
1915: New York Central introduce the Pullman Motor L-1 Class, built by GE and Pullman, these motor cars have 3-rail catch and a diesel motor, make one of first dual-power engines to be built;
1923: Baldwin introduce the model know as DP-X1-2000 (Diesel Prototype, one of type, 2,000 hp). Despite of initial ideas to be a mainline design, but not be so very weel, they became good transfer and yard operations engine. B&O in 1925 bought the prototype unit, and ask to Baldwin to built more 4 units.
1933: ALCO introduce the Type I prototype articulated diesel-electric locomotive. The model have a relative sucess at the time, as roads off Southern Pacific, Lackwanna, Great Northern, New York Central and Union Pacific order at total of 40 units between 1936 - 1938, and give ALCO a advantage on diesel market over GE and EMD. The Type I have dual cabs and 1,500 hp, and make a base for latter models as ALCO DL-202, FA-1 and PA ones.
1936: PRR make a proposal to ALCO for the built of a center-cab diesel power. This make the ALCO DL-101 as 14 units are built for massive freights and use the same streamliner design that electric GG-1. On Classification System, them DL-101 became ARS-15 (ALCO Road Switcher 1,500 hp).
1937: Works are make on General Electric streamliner DMU, know as "The Liberty". Consist of two power cars, two first class, three second class and one restaurant. It´s have a 2.400hp and a top speed of 180 kph.
1947: ALCO introduce the DL-202, know as "Black Maria" they prototype unit. The model pass to be used by Delaware & Hudson, Boston & Maine, New York Central and Seaboard.
1948: The higher speed ALCO-GE common built DMU Dieseliner 30, or DSL-30, are introduce and became one of most famous and used trainsets. Some units are used until 70s during Amtrak HSR-era.
1951: As for renew of passenger service, Pullman introduce the Superliner-I DMU, consist of 10 coaches. (OTL New Haven Comet design but non-articulated and more cars)
- ALCO introduce the road freight unit DL-36, in a Loewy-inspired design if 3,600 hp, bought by Burlington, Northern Pacific, Baltimore & Ohio and Florida East Coast.
1952: Milwaukee Road GE-built Olimpia double-deck EMU are introduce on Chicago - Milwaukee route as a fast intercity service.
1955: To compete if ALCO and EMD for US motive power, as well the necessity to introduce a newly fast train to new high speed routes built during 50s, GE design the Americaliner Diesel Xpress DXP-55, a trainset consist of two power cars and 8 coaches between, as express service consist.
1915: New York Central introduce the Pullman Motor L-1 Class, built by GE and Pullman, these motor cars have 3-rail catch and a diesel motor, make one of first dual-power engines to be built;
1923: Baldwin introduce the model know as DP-X1-2000 (Diesel Prototype, one of type, 2,000 hp). Despite of initial ideas to be a mainline design, but not be so very weel, they became good transfer and yard operations engine. B&O in 1925 bought the prototype unit, and ask to Baldwin to built more 4 units.
1933: ALCO introduce the Type I prototype articulated diesel-electric locomotive. The model have a relative sucess at the time, as roads off Southern Pacific, Lackwanna, Great Northern, New York Central and Union Pacific order at total of 40 units between 1936 - 1938, and give ALCO a advantage on diesel market over GE and EMD. The Type I have dual cabs and 1,500 hp, and make a base for latter models as ALCO DL-202, FA-1 and PA ones.
1936: PRR make a proposal to ALCO for the built of a center-cab diesel power. This make the ALCO DL-101 as 14 units are built for massive freights and use the same streamliner design that electric GG-1. On Classification System, them DL-101 became ARS-15 (ALCO Road Switcher 1,500 hp).
1937: Works are make on General Electric streamliner DMU, know as "The Liberty". Consist of two power cars, two first class, three second class and one restaurant. It´s have a 2.400hp and a top speed of 180 kph.
1947: ALCO introduce the DL-202, know as "Black Maria" they prototype unit. The model pass to be used by Delaware & Hudson, Boston & Maine, New York Central and Seaboard.
1948: The higher speed ALCO-GE common built DMU Dieseliner 30, or DSL-30, are introduce and became one of most famous and used trainsets. Some units are used until 70s during Amtrak HSR-era.
1951: As for renew of passenger service, Pullman introduce the Superliner-I DMU, consist of 10 coaches. (OTL New Haven Comet design but non-articulated and more cars)
- ALCO introduce the road freight unit DL-36, in a Loewy-inspired design if 3,600 hp, bought by Burlington, Northern Pacific, Baltimore & Ohio and Florida East Coast.
1952: Milwaukee Road GE-built Olimpia double-deck EMU are introduce on Chicago - Milwaukee route as a fast intercity service.
1955: To compete if ALCO and EMD for US motive power, as well the necessity to introduce a newly fast train to new high speed routes built during 50s, GE design the Americaliner Diesel Xpress DXP-55, a trainset consist of two power cars and 8 coaches between, as express service consist.
I will say off the beat that the PRR will be like OTL's N&W in terms of being among the last to dispose of steam. However, they will also invest heavily in electrics later on.
I imagine more widespread and early electrification would be common. LNER, Southern and GWR make plans to electrification both ECML and WCML. GWR in particulary as look as base on swiss style electrification and equipment, and LNER make the prototype EE1 as way to became base for future mainline electrification. Have this happen, and many diesel engines and even steamers would be butterflied, as EE Deltic and HST. Another day on British forum, i Just found these interesting Photoshop, If Great Western Railways go ahead If they electrification project, and use Swiss equipment.
So to recap, here's what I have so far:
The POD
- Santa Fe keeps SLSF in the 1893 Panic.
- PRR expands stake in N&W in the early 1900s.
I'll think of more later.
The POD
- Santa Fe keeps SLSF in the 1893 Panic.
- PRR expands stake in N&W in the early 1900s.
I'll think of more later.
Andrew, some ideas that could help too
- PRR merger the N&W;
- Southern Pacific begin electrification on Central Valley during 30s as a New Deal project;
- Same as Milwaukee Road, that close the gap;
- New York Central electrification the Water Level Route Just after WW2 (Don't know If they use 3rd rail or Overheas wires);
- Idea for Amtrak could be formed Just after WW2, or by 1950, as a rebuilding process and pass passenger trains for federal agency;
- Freight Railroads could work If Amtrak and create bypass routes on major corridors.
@Andrew Boyd
Would like to share if the group some photos that i found on Facebook that is for proposed/concept engines.
GM Styling suggestion to EMC. Artistic rendering from 1930s.
Concept proposed for GE E-60 for NdeM for electrification project from 80s.
Proposed or Concept for a Pennsylvania E1a engine
One of the original proposal for Amtrak. The locomotive body (maybe contracted the body construction to Budd) would blend in with the original Amfleet cars and power would have been used on the front and back of the train. Estimate date is around the late 1970's as phase I paint scheme is shown.
Concept Art for a Rock Island Aerotrain consist.
Budd Company proposed for Double-Deck EMU. Possible this became the later Highliners for IC.
Would like to share if the group some photos that i found on Facebook that is for proposed/concept engines.
GM Styling suggestion to EMC. Artistic rendering from 1930s.
Concept proposed for GE E-60 for NdeM for electrification project from 80s.
Proposed or Concept for a Pennsylvania E1a engine
One of the original proposal for Amtrak. The locomotive body (maybe contracted the body construction to Budd) would blend in with the original Amfleet cars and power would have been used on the front and back of the train. Estimate date is around the late 1970's as phase I paint scheme is shown.
Concept Art for a Rock Island Aerotrain consist.
Budd Company proposed for Double-Deck EMU. Possible this became the later Highliners for IC.
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Another bunch of proposed/concepts
Another Budd Concept, this time a single deck EMU if a slight streamliner front. Possible from 60s;
Proposed 4-8-4 direct drive steam turbine designs for the New York Central by Baldwin locomotive works, dated 1946
American Coal Enterprise concept for a modern Steam Garratt Turbine type engine. From late 80s
Jacques Cooper (Designer of first TGV model) artistic vision for a HSR for US. Concept from late 80s;
ACE 3000 Proposed in Chessie & System colors;
Original design of Budd for PRR Metroliner
FRISCO F-Units on Cajon Pass in 1962
New York Central Mercury on Chicago La Salle Station, 1930s
Another Budd Concept, this time a single deck EMU if a slight streamliner front. Possible from 60s;
Proposed 4-8-4 direct drive steam turbine designs for the New York Central by Baldwin locomotive works, dated 1946
American Coal Enterprise concept for a modern Steam Garratt Turbine type engine. From late 80s
Jacques Cooper (Designer of first TGV model) artistic vision for a HSR for US. Concept from late 80s;
ACE 3000 Proposed in Chessie & System colors;
Original design of Budd for PRR Metroliner
FRISCO F-Units on Cajon Pass in 1962
New York Central Mercury on Chicago La Salle Station, 1930s
@WaterproofPotatoes
Any preserved steamers you would like to hear about ITTL? I have decided on several that will be in operation longer that OTL that were retired for varying reasons.
Any preserved steamers you would like to hear about ITTL? I have decided on several that will be in operation longer that OTL that were retired for varying reasons.
I assume these ones were among the several Santa Fe rebuilt into CF7s after taking over the Frisco. Right?
FRISCO F-Units on Cajon Pass in 1962
I see that's the design GE used for the PRR BB1 in the 1990s too. I remember a 1998 photo of two of those running alongside N&W 1218 as they hauled coal trains out of Roanoke.
Concept proposed for GE E-60 for NdeM for electrification project from 80s.