Prussians lose Sadowa and developments hereafter

A somewhat-frequent PoD bandied about when discussing an Austrian victory in the Austro-Prussian war of 1866 is the near-death experience of the Prussian king, Bismarck, and von Moltke with an Austrian cannon shell. Say that Austrian cannon shell had hit more precisely and the trio all died, causing chaos in the Prussian system, leading to an Austrian victory at Koniggratz/Sadowa.

Can Austria make any meaningful gains in the aftermath of this fluke victory? Or will the newly-crowned Frederick III of Prussia pursue more war with the side that killed his father? How will the occupied German states- Hanover, Hesse, Saxony, etc. fare in the world after the Prussian loss? What about internal developments in the Kingdom of Prussia? I have read on this site that there were sporadic revolts in Prussia that faded with the news of a Prussian victory. Would they get worse if Prussia lost, with king and prime minister dead so dramatically? And without losing 1866, would Austria have enough strength to prevent the formation of Austria-Hungary, the dual-monarchy?
 
A somewhat-frequent PoD bandied about when discussing an Austrian victory in the Austro-Prussian war of 1866 is the near-death experience of the Prussian king, Bismarck, and von Moltke with an Austrian cannon shell. Say that Austrian cannon shell had hit more precisely and the trio all died, causing chaos in the Prussian system, leading to an Austrian victory at Koniggratz/Sadowa.

Can Austria make any meaningful gains in the aftermath of this fluke victory? Or will the newly-crowned Frederick III of Prussia pursue more war with the side that killed his father? How will the occupied German states- Hanover, Hesse, Saxony, etc. fare in the world after the Prussian loss? What about internal developments in the Kingdom of Prussia? I have read on this site that there were sporadic revolts in Prussia that faded with the news of a Prussian victory. Would they get worse if Prussia lost, with king and prime minister dead so dramatically? And without losing 1866, would Austria have enough strength to prevent the formation of Austria-Hungary, the dual-monarchy?
Okay, let me try and break this down so I can answer these questions easily, or at least offer my interpretations:
1) Austria had lost its first clashes in Italy against Piedmont and France. In OTL, the Prussian victory at Sadowa forced the Austrians to cede Venetia NOT to Prussia or Piedmont (directly) but to France, which then gifted the territory to Piedmont. Should Austria manage to win at Sadowa, its likely that Piedmont might declare war on Austria again-possibly with French backing, and seize Venetia by force. Its even money as to how this war ends, but if Austria prevails, Piedmont might be forced to return Lombardy to them. It would be interesting to see a situation in which France and a smarting Prussia make common cause if only temporarily to join forces with Piedmont. (Given the tension between France and Prussia this is unlikely, but then we've seen France bury its hostility to Austria to check Prussia, so who knows? Prussia would almost certainly want revenge for its loss and France would be eager to reduce the power of the Austrians and potentially gain enough favor with Berlin to negotiate a revision of the Vienna Treaty of 1815).

2)I would expect nothing less than a Prussian return engagement under Frederick III, given that his father died at Sadowa. This is where I throw in the idea that in addition to Piedmont, Prussia might consider burying its hostility toward France temporarily and forge an anti-Hapsburg alliance. Russia could even be brought in either as an additional ally or as a replacement for France, as Russia would be looking for a way to neutralize the Hapsburgs so they'd have an open door to realizing their 'historic mission' in regard to Turkey and the Straits. Frederick III might be delayed, however, by any uprisings within the annexed lands of Hanover, Hesse and Saxony and would need to either reach an accomodation with the rebels or crush them militarily. Should he be successful in this, its likely that the next Prussian attack on Austria would guarantee that Prussian grenadiers would be just outside the walls of Vienna itself.

- Assuming on the other hand that Austria takes advantage of the surprise victory at Sadowa, or manages to coordinate with the German states that aligned with them more effectively (which would still allow an Austrian victory), I feel like Prussia would be partitioned. Saxony getting Berlin and Brandenburg, Hesse and Hanover getting some scraps of territory. The Rhineland could either be broken up among the middling German states or even constituted as a new kingdom (I highly doubt Austria would willingly give the Rhine Valley to France as they had just fought a war over Italy). Prussia would be reduced to its eastern territories and no longer factor as a German power. They might, in time, more closely align with Russia and down the line could either seek a new war, or join in a Russo-Austrian war to regain its lost lands.

3)Given that Austria would have increased its power with a victory at Sadowa, there is every reason to believe that the Hungarians would be quieted to such a degree that no compromise is ever made because one isn't necessary. But given Hungarian concerns about their culture becoming diluted with foreign influences, not to mention the very real threat of a major Slav state arising on their southern border, a more negotiated version of the Ausgleich could also still happen. I honestly believe it was Hungarian rather than Austrian fears of a Serbian superstate that drove the course of events leading to June 28, 1914. Would this change in the timeline mean the assassination still happens? Possibly, but its also possible that a more negotiated version of the Ausgleich could impose limitations on the Hungarians in terms of their behavior toward the non-Magyar inhabitants of their state. Better treatment of the Romanian and Slavic inhabitants would in time lead to less tension than in OTL, though in the end, Romanian irredentism and Serbian aspirations to empire would still trigger a Balkan Crisis. It would then depend on the alliance systems in place by that time as to whether the crisis remains confined, or spreads.

One Final thing to note: Should Sadowa be an Austrian victory, it stands to reason that Prussia would be temporarily prevented from continuing its mission to unify Germany. In addition to the other potential terms Austria could impose, the restoration of Schleswig-Holstein to Denmark isn't out of the question. Also, without a Prussian-unified Germany, there would be no conferences headed by Bismarck which decide the fate of peoples in both the Balkans and in Africa, and colonial conflicts between the major powers could easily erupt. The loss of Prussia as the driving force for unification could also, lastly, open the door to a Grossdeutschland under Austrian leadership which might even incorporate Hungary as an autonomous state. Austria could even possibly decide to shed its Italian connections to focus on Germany, though they'd hope to wean the new Italy from their French alliance.
 
If Austria wins Sadowa, then their Northern Army can march to help Bavaria as their final defeat hadnt happened yet or help liberate Saxony, seeing as the Saxons are part of that army. I guess it depends on the fate of Prussian Army in Bohemia, if they were destroyed, or mostly destroyed then Austria has won, killing or capturing the Cronprinz as well as Bismark, King etc, if they manage to retreat in being or at least part, then Prussia re-directs its other armies to reinforce the main theater save the new king and so on. Hannover has already surrendered, but the Federall VIII Corps is trying to unite with Bavaria and then aid the Austrians. We could see a status quo peace, which is a win for Austria. Possibly, the minor German princes will join up with Austria and exclude Prussia, a reverse Zollverein/North German Confederation, possible but not super likely.

Italy has already lost Custozza, and with victory in the north Albrecht and his Sud Armee can continue beating the Italians, though probably not advancing into Italy but defending Venetia.

The Danes just lost a war against both Prussia and Austria, they are not getting Schleswig back.

Interestingly, the most important change would probably be in Franz Joseph, he finally won a war, that could change alot about him. He reigned for approx. 80 years and lost every war he fought, he seems to always have the mentality of a defeated man, always trying to hold what he has left, not trying to increase, that could change his responses to events in the next 50 years of his OTL reign.
 
if they manage to retreat in being or at least part,

Very difficult as their foragers have stripped the country around their line of march, and they would be retreating the same way. Even as it was, the Prussians had had little or nothing to eat for the last couple of days before Sadowa. If defeated, Elbe and I Army would be facing starvation, as their foragers could be picked off by Austrian cavalry.

Of course the King and his entourage could probably get away, but II Army would have to negotiate its way back through the mountain passes it had just crossed *into* Bohemia, so could be very vulnerable if the Austrians haven't suffered too much to do a hot pursuit.. Prussia is up the creek.
 
With the Prussian army in retreat or destroyed, would the Poles of Prussia be able to rise up? The Prussians helped defeat the Polish uprising in Russia just 2 years before. I am sure there was some bad blood there. And if Polish nationalists smell blood in the water, it could be possible. But that could lead to Russian intervention.
 
With the Prussian army in retreat or destroyed, would the Poles of Prussia be able to rise up? The Prussians helped defeat the Polish uprising in Russia just 2 years before. I am sure there was some bad blood there. And if Polish nationalists smell blood in the water, it could be possible. But that could lead to Russian intervention.

I would imagine the the forces facing Bavaria et al would be recalled to deal with it. And as you say, if the revolt seemed to be getting anywhere Russia wd likely step in.
 
bump— I personally believe the deaths of Bismarck, von Moltke and Wilhelm and a victory at Sadowa would basically produce a status quote antebellum; none of this "Silesia reconquest" nonsense. Prussia's leaving of the GC would be confirmed and Austria would be temporarily ascendant in Germany, though for how long who knows
Also, Austria winning 1866 means the Austrians can't be forced to create Austria-Hungary, meaning that for the moment it remains solely the Austrian empire
 
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Frankly I don't think Bismarck, Moltke, and Wilhelm dying at Sadowa would prevent a German victory. Their role in the battle was pretty minimal once it had started, and the odds that all of Moltke's command staff would be killed are practically nil, so there'd be people left to take up the reins. If that shell kills them, the Prussians still win. If they don't win, 90% chance the incompetent Austrians would still bungle it and let the Prussians withdraw in good order, merely a bit bloodied. Decisive Victory and Decisive Defeat is a false dichotomy, and many battles reach neither point.
 
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You just saved the second French Empire. That being said, if Hanover reverts to being independent in this timeline, then its ruler stands to inherit Brunswick in short order, which more or less connects Hanoverian territory and unifies the Welf lands. Perhaps, if Prussia loses, Austria seeks Silesia and Saxony its pre-1815 borders?
 
You just saved the second French Empire. That being said, if Hanover reverts to being independent in this timeline, then its ruler stands to inherit Brunswick in short order, which more or less connects Hanoverian territory and unifies the Welf lands. Perhaps, if Prussia loses, Austria seeks Silesia and Saxony its pre-1815 borders?
Thinking about this again, I could see France intervening on the Austrian side after Sadowa and then Vienna getting cheated out of real gains in the peace ending the war. Out of curiosity, does anyone know what led to the annexation nearly two decades before this POD of The Principality of Hohenzollern Sigmaringen by Prussia?
 
Pretty sure it was a result of the 1848 revolutions, the H-S family was overthrown and the main branch stepped in and annexed them to restore the peace.
 
Pretty sure it was a result of the 1848 revolutions, the H-S family was overthrown and the main branch stepped in and annexed them to restore the peace.
Makes sense. So, I suppose returning it to them following an Austrian victory in the war would not happen.
 
I personally believe the deaths of Bismarck, von Moltke and Wilhelm and a victory at Sadowa would basically produce a status quote antebellum;

Why exactly?

France will want Prussia evicted from the Rhenish Provinces, and certainly won't object to Austria acquiring at least the Catholic portions of Silesia and maybe more. And Prussia will surely loser share of Schleswig-Holstein.
 
Why exactly?

France will want Prussia evicted from the Rhenish Provinces, and certainly won't object to Austria acquiring at least the Catholic portions of Silesia and maybe more. And Prussia will surely loser share of Schleswig-Holstein.
I was under the impression that the Austrians had enough resources to defend themselves from Prussia (if an opportunity like the one presented here arose) but not strong enough to go and reverse the loss of Silesia or anything as drastic as so
 
Why exactly?

France will want Prussia evicted from the Rhenish Provinces, and certainly won't object to Austria acquiring at least the Catholic portions of Silesia and maybe more. And Prussia will surely loser share of Schleswig-Holstein.

I was under the impression that the Austrians had enough resources to defend themselves from Prussia (if an opportunity like the one presented here arose) but not strong enough to go and reverse the loss of Silesia or anything as drastic as so
Personally, I don't think France will want to empower Austria if that is in any way avoidable and might prefer to give the Rhineland and Westphalia to Joseph's heirs or at least get the Prussians out of Luxembourg for good.
 
Personally, I don't think France will want to empower Austria if that is in any way avoidable and might prefer to give the Rhineland and Westphalia to Joseph's heirs or at least get the Prussians out of Luxembourg for good.
Makes sense, so likely some kind of status quo antebellum then?
 
I think there could be minor adjustments. What I wonder about is what happens with Italy?
AFAIK Franz Joseph and Napoleon had an agreement that whatever the outcome of the war in Germany, Venice would go to France, who would pawn it to Italy. So if Austria wins in Germany, Italy would still get Venice
 
I very much doubt that if F-J , after winning on both fronts, is going to give anyone anything, I wouldnt be surprised if the Austrians, after crushing the Prussians, turn and fall upon the Italians trying to retake Lombardy, they only lost it 7 years before.
 
I think there could be minor adjustments.iving Prussia of her Rhenish Provinces and at leat part of

Depriving Prussia of her Rhenish provinces and at least part of Silesia is hardly minor.

AIUI (mainly from Taylor's Struggle For Mastery) Napoleon III had indicated that he would accept any changes which "did not upset the European balance of power" which would imply that he was ok with Austria acquiring German lands to balance her Italian losses, but nothing more. All or a sizeable part of Silesia would seem the obvious. It was also agreed that the middle-sized states would gain (unspecified) territory.

This could lead to disagreement. Franz Josef would have liked new states for the deposed Habsburg rulers of Tuscany and Modena, and was probably looking to the Rhenish lands for this. However, Nappy III and the lesser German rulers might have preferred them to be divvied up among the latter, say Rhineland to Bavaria and Westphalia to Hanover, with Saxony recovering the land lost in 1815.

One wild card. With Prussia losing her share of Schleswig-Holstein, if FJ can't have the Rhenish lands, might he ditch the Duke of Augustenberg and give , say, S-H to the former GD of Tuscany and Lauenburg (or maybe the Prussian enclave in Thuringia) to the GD of Modena? That wouldn't bother the French. German Protestants might well grumble about a Protestant state being given a Catholic ruler, but that seems to have worked in Saxony w/o major problems.
 
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