I'm not Jack, but I believe that they should have happened ITTL too.
Protect and Survive: A Timeline
- Thread starter Macragge1
- Start date
I'm not Jack, but I believe that they should have happened ITTL too.
It's pretty likely that there would be. We always assumed that there would be conventional attacks for planning purposes.
Well, we can add subarticles to the main P&S article on the board's own wiki. Leave it to me, just pass me the essential texts.
And once the TL is finished, it can be reposted in the Writer's forum as a single continuous text.
Macragge1
Banned
Bibliography
References
Campbell,D, War Plan UK: The Truth About Civil Defence In Britain, Burnett Books, London (1982)
Hennessey,P, The Secret State: Preparing for the Worst 1945-2010, Penguin, London (2010)
Brookes, A, Vulcan Units of the Cold War, Osprey Publishing, London (2009)
Windass, S et.al, Avoiding Nuclear War: Common Security as a Strategy for the Defence of the West, Brassey's Defence Publishers, Washington (1985)
Clarke, B, The Illustrated Guide To Armageddon: Britain's Cold War, Amberley, Gloucester (2009)
Gibson, C, Vulcan's Hammer: V-Force Projects and Weapons Since 1945, Hikoki Publications, Manchester (2011)
Jackson, R, Submarines of the World: 300 of the World's Best Submarines, Grange Books, Rochester (2000)
Lucas, J, The Last Days of the Reich, Phoenix, London (2000)
Wood, D, Jane's World Aircraft Recognition Handbook 1984, Jane's Publishing, London (1983)
McCutcheon, C, The Home Office Civil Defence Manual of Basic Training, His Majesty's Stationery Office, London (1950)
Sandbrook, D, State of Emergency: The Way We Were, Britain 1970-1974, Penguin, London (2011)
Turner, A, Rejoice! Rejoice!, Aurum Press Ltd, London (2010)
Fox, S, Struggle for Survival - Governing Britain After the Bomb, Online, (2005)
Hershey, J, Hiroshima, Penguin Modern Classics, London (2002)
Anon, Protect and Survive - How To Make Your Home And Your Family As Safe As Possible Under Nuclear Attack, Home Office, London (1980)
Recommended Reading
NB - What follows is a far-from exhaustive list of fictional works that I can consciously attest to having influenced the timeline stylistically; I would recommend each of them to anyone who has enjoyed this timeline, as it is more than likely that they will enjoy these.
The Road - Cormac McCarthy
Down To A Sunless Sea - David Graham
On The Beach - Neville Shute
The Death of Grass - John Christopher
The Last Ship - William Brinkley
GB84 - David Peace
Watchmen - Alan Moore
V For Vendetta - Alan Moore
Heart of Darkness - Joseph Conrad
The Day of the Triffids - John Wyndham
The Waste Land - T.S Eliot.
NB - Obviously this bibliography is as much a work-in-progress as the timeline itself.
References
Campbell,D, War Plan UK: The Truth About Civil Defence In Britain, Burnett Books, London (1982)
Hennessey,P, The Secret State: Preparing for the Worst 1945-2010, Penguin, London (2010)
Brookes, A, Vulcan Units of the Cold War, Osprey Publishing, London (2009)
Windass, S et.al, Avoiding Nuclear War: Common Security as a Strategy for the Defence of the West, Brassey's Defence Publishers, Washington (1985)
Clarke, B, The Illustrated Guide To Armageddon: Britain's Cold War, Amberley, Gloucester (2009)
Gibson, C, Vulcan's Hammer: V-Force Projects and Weapons Since 1945, Hikoki Publications, Manchester (2011)
Jackson, R, Submarines of the World: 300 of the World's Best Submarines, Grange Books, Rochester (2000)
Lucas, J, The Last Days of the Reich, Phoenix, London (2000)
Wood, D, Jane's World Aircraft Recognition Handbook 1984, Jane's Publishing, London (1983)
McCutcheon, C, The Home Office Civil Defence Manual of Basic Training, His Majesty's Stationery Office, London (1950)
Sandbrook, D, State of Emergency: The Way We Were, Britain 1970-1974, Penguin, London (2011)
Turner, A, Rejoice! Rejoice!, Aurum Press Ltd, London (2010)
Fox, S, Struggle for Survival - Governing Britain After the Bomb, Online, (2005)
Hershey, J, Hiroshima, Penguin Modern Classics, London (2002)
Anon, Protect and Survive - How To Make Your Home And Your Family As Safe As Possible Under Nuclear Attack, Home Office, London (1980)
Recommended Reading
NB - What follows is a far-from exhaustive list of fictional works that I can consciously attest to having influenced the timeline stylistically; I would recommend each of them to anyone who has enjoyed this timeline, as it is more than likely that they will enjoy these.
The Road - Cormac McCarthy
Down To A Sunless Sea - David Graham
On The Beach - Neville Shute
The Death of Grass - John Christopher
The Last Ship - William Brinkley
GB84 - David Peace
Watchmen - Alan Moore
V For Vendetta - Alan Moore
Heart of Darkness - Joseph Conrad
The Day of the Triffids - John Wyndham
The Waste Land - T.S Eliot.
NB - Obviously this bibliography is as much a work-in-progress as the timeline itself.
Macragge1, I've added your bibliography list to the TL's wiki page and I've taken the liberty of making a wiki page for you as well (starting phase, it only has your name and the link to the TL, I leave the rest to you).
Also, once I find enough time to browse the bibliography, I might add some of the references to the Resources page. We still have only a couple of things related to the Cold War there, so anything is welcomed.
Also, once I find enough time to browse the bibliography, I might add some of the references to the Resources page. We still have only a couple of things related to the Cold War there, so anything is welcomed.
Z for Zacharia
Yep. Aimed at a teenage audience it's about a young girl who survives a nuclear strike. She wanders into a valley which,due to the local micro weather pattern, is free from fall out. Here she meets a lone survivor called Zacharia. Lets just say it doesn't end well. It was made into a BBC series, link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53u2jPltuI4
Hope this helps
Yep. Aimed at a teenage audience it's about a young girl who survives a nuclear strike. She wanders into a valley which,due to the local micro weather pattern, is free from fall out. Here she meets a lone survivor called Zacharia. Lets just say it doesn't end well. It was made into a BBC series, link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53u2jPltuI4
Hope this helps
Macragge1
Banned
I'm very glad to be of assistance!
I think I'm just about in exactly the same boat as you with regards to the degree; indeed, this bibliography came about through some sort of... Stockholm Syndrome thing after I finished one for a 1,500 word essay on a charmingly racist 1895 book on China - once I'd done that I sort of felt I was in the swing of things so just went ahead and did this.
I'm very glad you like those two 'sources' - certainly, they were on the vaguer end of the spectrum (I was trying to stick with the subject matter as much as possible) but they did have their places. For example, Last Days of the Reich opens with the line -
I broadly agree with this view - when one visualises Germany in 1945 one sees Dresden burning, children and old men bearing antique weapons and of course, more emaciated and blameless corpses than the bulldozers can bury. In terms of reaching the breaking point of human endurance, I feel this period is about as close as we have come so far. Certainly (along with Japan, to a lesser extent) it's the 'finest' example of a first world industrial power brought to her knees (and lower) through a catastrophic war. As a tale of disintegration and hopefulness, Lucas' book is a pretty useful source, and a grimly fascinating read in its own right.
With regards to The Waste Land, I really just put it in because it's such an excellent poem - if we're looking to be diplomatic we could argue that both Eliot and I are talking about post-war 'wastelands'; to be honest, this is much more just a stylistic thing - I've always loved the way the poem says very little with so much meaning, this sparse, scary prose; this is something I've tried to emulate in the timeline.
Merci beaucoup - you're correct that the uncovering of new source evidence is less of a problem with this subject than others, given we actually have a pretty well-defined end-point; indeed, many of these books had predecessors published during the Cold War, which were mostly about half as long and with a lot more speculation.
To be fair, however, we still don't know how much stuff is still secret; a lot of the Central Govt. stuff is on a 30 year secrecy lapse, so anything past 1981 can still be classified (though a lot of it is released anyway); indeed, the truly secret plans (by which I mean the truly horrible ones, which I don't doubt do exist) may only see the light of day 75 or 100 years from when they were written...
I'd love to see the bibliography for Watchtower, but I imagine that it's so vast that getting it down would be a truly daunting proposition :/
Thanks very much, Petike; I'm glad the references are helpful!
The Road is probably the most breathtakingly morbid depressing thing I have ever read. It is also marinated with suspense and is incredibly scary. I was listening to the audiobook of it on my commute, and the anxiety of the story was getting to me to the extent that I chickened out and looked it up on Wikipedia to find out what would happen to The Boy and The Man.
After I finished the story, I had to look out the window repeatedly and say to myself, "It's green, it's green, there are animals, stuff is alive out here, green, alive..."
I have a copy of On The Beach, and I haven't had the balls to finish it, and, I refuse to look up the ending. I have the book with me today (I'm at a staff development training day, meaning there will be downtime, especially since I got here an hour early) and I just might take another crack at it. (I'm more than halfway through it.)
"The End of Grass" is one of Those Stories I've read about... apparently mouthwateringly awful for the poor folks in that story... and I'll be looking for other books on that list also.
The only book that I think can come close to The Road for being both beautifully written and incredibly sad (my gracious, I feel an eye tearing up!) is All Quiet On The Western Front. If that book had been made mandatory reading for all Germans... and, if grandma had wheels, she'd be a Bugatti, right? (I think that book seems prescribed for anyone who doesn't believe in the existence of Good Germans.)
edit: at the risk of tangenting, Stephen Baxter seems to specialize in books about the planet and the existence of humanity going to and beyond the breaking point. One example, "Huddle," is freaking stark.
Last edited:
You know, in regards to the "what music would be appropriate for this scene/chapter" debate that appeared in the earlier parts of the TL, the opening chapter of Operation Prospero made me think of this track :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGzD-UKDJwo&feature=related
I imagined it playing at the bit where they prepare the Victor for take off and during the shaky take off itself. Fits the insecure, risky atmosphere of the mission and the whole "we're leaving a relatively safe place, charging headlong to explore the post-apocalyptic wilderness completely alone without any guarantee of return" feel that's going on in that chapter. The creepy chimes heard in the second half of the track are a nice touch.
More an ambient piece than anything era-specific, since I couldn't make my mind up which 80s or non-80s song could fit what scene (even though I had a few ideas at times).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGzD-UKDJwo&feature=related
I imagined it playing at the bit where they prepare the Victor for take off and during the shaky take off itself. Fits the insecure, risky atmosphere of the mission and the whole "we're leaving a relatively safe place, charging headlong to explore the post-apocalyptic wilderness completely alone without any guarantee of return" feel that's going on in that chapter. The creepy chimes heard in the second half of the track are a nice touch.
More an ambient piece than anything era-specific, since I couldn't make my mind up which 80s or non-80s song could fit what scene (even though I had a few ideas at times).
Macragge1
Banned
Ah - sounds similar to the 'Varieties of History' module we did last year, with added postmodernism. I'm doing my degree at Newcastle - just started my second year.
I started one after you suggested it; and yeah, 'daunting' is the right word...
Christ, I can imagine...
Macragge, a truly brilliant TL. Also, very well written. That is what makes the whole thing so damn good. I think you balance the characters well and your dialogue is some of the best i have read on this site. Its not often that a timeline on this site makes you think of Camus, but 'Antigone is right, but Creon is not wrong' defines the moral issue of the story.
I read both Protect and Survive and Duck and Cover last night. Stayed up till 4 it was so damn good. AND i have my constitutional law exam on monday!
Im not so convinced by the Angolan/Soviet bombing raid on South Africa. I am jus not sure the Soviets would waste time and weapons on that sort of endeavour. Also, how the hell did they get the things down there? I'm not really certain they could have shipped nukes and nuclear capable aeroplanes down to Africa without an international incident.
I read both Protect and Survive and Duck and Cover last night. Stayed up till 4 it was so damn good. AND i have my constitutional law exam on monday!
Im not so convinced by the Angolan/Soviet bombing raid on South Africa. I am jus not sure the Soviets would waste time and weapons on that sort of endeavour. Also, how the hell did they get the things down there? I'm not really certain they could have shipped nukes and nuclear capable aeroplanes down to Africa without an international incident.
Cheers Bruz, i think i aced it. Anyway, i love this series because it got me thinking about constitutions.
Britain is pretty lucky, it has a strong central government with a loyal military and competent regional administrative bodies and police forces. It can survive a degree of decentralisation because of this. moreover, the prerogative can be used quite extensively. it seems the system can change without a serious constitutional crisis - at least thats what i get from the series. the government alters itself without seriously altering its character.
America is almost the complete opposite. though it has a strong, loyal military it also has regional militias, which may be more loyal to state governments that the nation in times of crisis. moreover, the traditions of particularism are much stronger in the USA and government intervention into state affairs is kinda hard. There just isnt the same chance to build the structures the brits have. based on Duck and Cover, im thinking a whole new constitutional order is going to emerge.
This got me thinking about how Australia would organise itself in such an emergency. The states are totally almost totally reliant on the Commonwealth for funding, they cant maintain any military forces (or militias). Also, the Commonwealth can use its executive powers to call out the army in times of domestic emergency (such as after the hilton hotel bombing).
However, the government is a little hamstrung on matters outside its heads of power and cant touch state government property.
so, in any emergency there would need to be careful coordination between the states and the commonwealth.
hopefully either melbourne or sydney doesnt get nuked. we need at least one of those cities.
Just a side note, i hope Bob Hawke survives D-Day but Keating and Howard get vapourised
Britain is pretty lucky, it has a strong central government with a loyal military and competent regional administrative bodies and police forces. It can survive a degree of decentralisation because of this. moreover, the prerogative can be used quite extensively. it seems the system can change without a serious constitutional crisis - at least thats what i get from the series. the government alters itself without seriously altering its character.
America is almost the complete opposite. though it has a strong, loyal military it also has regional militias, which may be more loyal to state governments that the nation in times of crisis. moreover, the traditions of particularism are much stronger in the USA and government intervention into state affairs is kinda hard. There just isnt the same chance to build the structures the brits have. based on Duck and Cover, im thinking a whole new constitutional order is going to emerge.
This got me thinking about how Australia would organise itself in such an emergency. The states are totally almost totally reliant on the Commonwealth for funding, they cant maintain any military forces (or militias). Also, the Commonwealth can use its executive powers to call out the army in times of domestic emergency (such as after the hilton hotel bombing).
However, the government is a little hamstrung on matters outside its heads of power and cant touch state government property.
so, in any emergency there would need to be careful coordination between the states and the commonwealth.
hopefully either melbourne or sydney doesnt get nuked. we need at least one of those cities.
Just a side note, i hope Bob Hawke survives D-Day but Keating and Howard get vapourised