Prosperous Detroit
- Thread starter HanEmpire
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you need a way to aviod the ghetto riot of 1967
According to the black conservative economist Thomas Sowell:
According to the black conservative economist Thomas Sowell:
Before the ghetto riot of 1967, Detroit's black population had the highest rate of home-ownership of any black urban population in the country, and their unemployment rate was just 3.4 percent. It was not despair that fueled the riot. It was the riot which marked the beginning of the decline of Detroit to its current state of despair. Detroit's population today is only half of what it once was, and its most productive people have been the ones who fled.[7]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit#Automobile_industry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Detroit#Automobile_industry
You had an era of economic collapse of the dedicated industry of the city, as well as long running political incompetence and possible corruption. Detroit began to collapse when the automotive industry and the industrial working class began to collapse, and as the overall national situation became one of stagflation and Reagan era and post-Reagan era bandaging of economic problems and industrial problems that were never properly resolved and fixed. Detroit needed either a more competent automotive industry or diversification of the cities economy, or both. The American automotive industry went for big, loud, and gas guzzling automobiles, and was incapable of properly handling the increasing price of gasoline and the outside competition from the likes of the Japanese auto industry, whose cars were built with efficiency in mind. It's a stubbornness and maybe a crippling optimism and bravado of, rather than fitting the times and situation, pretending that the times and situation will fit you, which has always been a major problem in the United States.
The problem with Detroit now is that the "coulda-shoulda-woulda" don't matter. And anything the city needs to survive, it doesn't have the ability to pull off anymore since it's lost too much and is so deep in a hole. Make no mistake about it: Detroit is dead. If you see any photos of it, it looks like it was hit by a nuke. It is dead. It is a shame, but it is true. Something could follow it, and that should be the point now, but you aren't going to revive what it is. So the point now should be building on top of it, rather than rebuilding it.
If Detroit could diversify it's economy when it had the economic strength to do so, or had the American automotive industry been smart enough to go for efficiency and economy rather than ignoring fuel efficiency, it could be saved or buoyed. Then the problem becomes how to make reality fit that. How are you going to get the city to diversity when it doesn't need to, given human shortsightedness that makes the automotive industry look like it will be at full force forever? How would you get the automotive industry to not put up a fight if that diversification could take away from them? How would you get the automotive industry to realize that it needs to go for efficiency, given shortsightedness and the normal brainless status of a corporation, and the fact that Americans were blissfully paying for these and wasting gas until you had the embargoes and the diminishing of the petroleum and the increase of prices?
The problem with Detroit now is that the "coulda-shoulda-woulda" don't matter. And anything the city needs to survive, it doesn't have the ability to pull off anymore since it's lost too much and is so deep in a hole. Make no mistake about it: Detroit is dead. If you see any photos of it, it looks like it was hit by a nuke. It is dead. It is a shame, but it is true. Something could follow it, and that should be the point now, but you aren't going to revive what it is. So the point now should be building on top of it, rather than rebuilding it.
If Detroit could diversify it's economy when it had the economic strength to do so, or had the American automotive industry been smart enough to go for efficiency and economy rather than ignoring fuel efficiency, it could be saved or buoyed. Then the problem becomes how to make reality fit that. How are you going to get the city to diversity when it doesn't need to, given human shortsightedness that makes the automotive industry look like it will be at full force forever? How would you get the automotive industry to not put up a fight if that diversification could take away from them? How would you get the automotive industry to realize that it needs to go for efficiency, given shortsightedness and the normal brainless status of a corporation, and the fact that Americans were blissfully paying for these and wasting gas until you had the embargoes and the diminishing of the petroleum and the increase of prices?
Massive construction of technical universities and research institutes to the point where they practically support the city themselves as a magnet for educated persons?
All I can think of is having larger, faster fire trucks on hand.
I don't know.
(See [FONT="Arial Narrow"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_crash_tender[/FONT] fwiw, maybe [FONT="Arial Narrow"]http://jalopnik.com/5813529/the-ten-most-badass-fire-trucks/[/FONT] ?)
and this is perhaps what could be available circa 1967, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Salamander
Below, Alvis Salamander at work,
I don't know.
(See [FONT="Arial Narrow"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airport_crash_tender[/FONT] fwiw, maybe [FONT="Arial Narrow"]http://jalopnik.com/5813529/the-ten-most-badass-fire-trucks/[/FONT] ?)
and this is perhaps what could be available circa 1967, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvis_Salamander
Below, Alvis Salamander at work,
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Underfunded Pensions are a big problem.
if you can fix that you stand a better chance of have a successful city.
Pension Costs Drive GM's Discount Prices
General Motors continues offering aggressive price discounts and cheap financing in order to feed a pension fund that's about $19 billion short, according to a story in the Washington Post.
Because GM is so big, the rest of the auto industry is forced follow with its own discounts. The price war eats up so much cash — GM slashed prices by an average of $3,089 for each vehicle so far this year — that the domestic companies are having to short-change investment in new products and technology.
GM has 2.5 pensioners for every active worker, the story said. Consequently, on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs, the Post said, citing Stephen Girsky, an industry analyst for Morgan Stanley. That's up from about $1,300 last year.
"There are more health care costs in a car than steel," Girsky said.
The other Detroit companies also carry "legacy-cost" (pensions and health care expenses) but they're significantly lower — about $1,100 per vehicle for Chrysler unit and about $900 for Ford.
Foreign-owned carmakers have much less of a legacy cost burden. They haven't been in business long enough in the U.S. to have many retirees. Nissan's oldest plant in the United States in Smyrna, Tennessee has about 700 people on its pension rolls, giving them a decided advantage in the marketplace and a significant edge in profitability. In 2002, Nissan's profit per vehicle was $2,069, while GM eked out $701 per car, according to Harbour & Associates.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/rt-archive/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices
Detriot city has similar problems with pension for city workers.
Think about it: 83 cents of every Detroit police and fire payroll dollar is spent on pensions, leaving the city with 17 cents, at current budgeted amounts, to staff departments that are already understaffed and overworked.
That's the worst-case scenario outlined in a city-commissioned report by Seattle-based actuarial firm Milliman that found that the city's two pension funds -- one for regular employees and another for police officers and firefighters -- are in deeper trouble than previously believed, and that Detroit could soon be spending nearly all its payroll dollars just to make required pension payments.
So a city that already struggles to provide basic services, in part because liabilities consume 35 cents to 42 cents of every general fund dollar, could see that imbalance become completely unmanageable.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130226/OPINION02/302260136/How-pension-costs-could-crush-Detroit
if there was not war on drugs crime level in the city would have been much lower.
if you can fix that you stand a better chance of have a successful city.
Pension Costs Drive GM's Discount Prices
General Motors continues offering aggressive price discounts and cheap financing in order to feed a pension fund that's about $19 billion short, according to a story in the Washington Post.
Because GM is so big, the rest of the auto industry is forced follow with its own discounts. The price war eats up so much cash — GM slashed prices by an average of $3,089 for each vehicle so far this year — that the domestic companies are having to short-change investment in new products and technology.
GM has 2.5 pensioners for every active worker, the story said. Consequently, on top of any discount, each GM car or truck made this year will carry about $1,900 in pension and retiree health care costs, the Post said, citing Stephen Girsky, an industry analyst for Morgan Stanley. That's up from about $1,300 last year.
"There are more health care costs in a car than steel," Girsky said.
The other Detroit companies also carry "legacy-cost" (pensions and health care expenses) but they're significantly lower — about $1,100 per vehicle for Chrysler unit and about $900 for Ford.
Foreign-owned carmakers have much less of a legacy cost burden. They haven't been in business long enough in the U.S. to have many retirees. Nissan's oldest plant in the United States in Smyrna, Tennessee has about 700 people on its pension rolls, giving them a decided advantage in the marketplace and a significant edge in profitability. In 2002, Nissan's profit per vehicle was $2,069, while GM eked out $701 per car, according to Harbour & Associates.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/rt-archive/pension-costs-drive-gms-discount-prices
Detriot city has similar problems with pension for city workers.
Think about it: 83 cents of every Detroit police and fire payroll dollar is spent on pensions, leaving the city with 17 cents, at current budgeted amounts, to staff departments that are already understaffed and overworked.
That's the worst-case scenario outlined in a city-commissioned report by Seattle-based actuarial firm Milliman that found that the city's two pension funds -- one for regular employees and another for police officers and firefighters -- are in deeper trouble than previously believed, and that Detroit could soon be spending nearly all its payroll dollars just to make required pension payments.
So a city that already struggles to provide basic services, in part because liabilities consume 35 cents to 42 cents of every general fund dollar, could see that imbalance become completely unmanageable.
http://www.freep.com/article/20130226/OPINION02/302260136/How-pension-costs-could-crush-Detroit
if there was not war on drugs crime level in the city would have been much lower.
Lucius Verus
Banned
Well to be honest Detroit's pension plan was unrealistic to begin with; a pension plan from the baby boomers with an assumption of 8% growth per annum, it was impossible to sustain to begin with and the fault lies squarely on the voters who believed the politicians with this farce.
The big three... Well their pension plans were fair gain in attracting workers but the fault rests with their inability to adapt; even now they are lagging behind others in adopting hybrids and market share in the developing world. In addition there was the national trend of manufacturers moving out to the suburbs once highways were available and the rents on city centers increased from their already high starting point.
Also. It's this technically a topic for the post 1900 forum?
The big three... Well their pension plans were fair gain in attracting workers but the fault rests with their inability to adapt; even now they are lagging behind others in adopting hybrids and market share in the developing world. In addition there was the national trend of manufacturers moving out to the suburbs once highways were available and the rents on city centers increased from their already high starting point.
Also. It's this technically a topic for the post 1900 forum?
Could Tamla Mo town have given a significant boost culturally and economically, had the riots not happened?
Pittsburgh - Carnagie Mellon University, Duquesne University, and the University of Pittsburgh
Baltimore - Johns Hopkins University and University of Maryland-Baltimore
Cleveland - Case Western Reserve University
Cincinnati - University of Cincinnati and Xavier University
Milwaukee - Marquette University and University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee
Indianapolis - Ball State University Indianapolis Center, Butler University, and Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis
Columbus - Ohio State University
Detroit has Wayne State University, which is a fine establishment, but much to small to be an anchor for how large Detroit was. These smaller cities all have larger research universities. As Planet Money put it, why wasn't there a Henry Ford University?
Baltimore - Johns Hopkins University and University of Maryland-Baltimore
Cleveland - Case Western Reserve University
Cincinnati - University of Cincinnati and Xavier University
Milwaukee - Marquette University and University of Wisconsin–Milwaukee
Indianapolis - Ball State University Indianapolis Center, Butler University, and Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis
Columbus - Ohio State University
Detroit has Wayne State University, which is a fine establishment, but much to small to be an anchor for how large Detroit was. These smaller cities all have larger research universities. As Planet Money put it, why wasn't there a Henry Ford University?
Don't forget Philadelphia (Penn; Drexel; Temple) and Boston (Northeastern; Boston U; Boston College; UMass/Boston). Had there been established a UM/Detroit or MSU/Detroit with a heavy engineering/sciences emphasis, that might help.
Perhaps a merger of some/all of the postwar independent car manufacturers (Packard; Hudson; Willys; Kaiser-Frazer and non-Detroit Nash and Studebaker) might have helped to counter the monolithic thinking that led to the horsepower race in the '50s and '60s: maybe a "luxury plus economy" move that would have yielded a midsized Hudson/Studebaker/Kaiser would help, as might have a more nimble Willys/Henry J (with more speed/slightly greater horsepower).
Perhaps a merger of some/all of the postwar independent car manufacturers (Packard; Hudson; Willys; Kaiser-Frazer and non-Detroit Nash and Studebaker) might have helped to counter the monolithic thinking that led to the horsepower race in the '50s and '60s: maybe a "luxury plus economy" move that would have yielded a midsized Hudson/Studebaker/Kaiser would help, as might have a more nimble Willys/Henry J (with more speed/slightly greater horsepower).
Seattle faced a similar problem when Boeing hit hard times decades ago. Just have Detroit's industry diversify, and that will help some.
Very true but I was going for more typical 'rust belt' cities that didn't 'decline' as much as Detroit.
I could also add St. Louis - Washington University in St. Louis and St. Louis University
and Chicago (Detroit was once expected to eclipse Chicago, think about that) - The University of Chicago; Northwestern University (Evanston counts); Loyola University Chicago; Illinois Institute of Technology; DePaul University; and University of Illinois at Chicago
Some great ideas here, but it's also good to look at how we're defining Detroit as a city. Someone mentioned that Dearborn hadn't suffered the same collapse, well that's the thing. Detroit starts out surrounded by nothing. Unlike a lot of other huge American cities, there's no factor of history and little of geography to keep people from spreading out. Even as the population within the city limits plummeted, the surrounding areas skyrocketed in both people and value. It's classic white flight (but also class flight.) It's worth pointing out because even if you solve the auto industry's problems, the money's still going to go just outside Detroit and it'll still go downhill.
The solution to this problem might be the creation of something like a Cook County municipality, since Chicago has a very similar lack of surroundings and spread out in a similar way. But the population, though segregated, at least remained in the Chicago tax base.
The solution to this problem might be the creation of something like a Cook County municipality, since Chicago has a very similar lack of surroundings and spread out in a similar way. But the population, though segregated, at least remained in the Chicago tax base.
Detroit needed to diversify beyond the auto industry. The best bet is to have Wayne State/University of Michigan invest heavily in their computer science departments in the 50s-60s, leading to Detroit replacing or at least competing with Silicon Valley.