Proposals and War Aims That Didn't Happen Map Thread
- Thread starter Beedok
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I like “Arab Countries” on the one map. “Eh, we’ll let them figure it out on their own.”
Map of Dinia -- "Land of the Faith (Din)" -- the first proposal for a Muslim polity in India. Choudhry Rahmat Ali proposed that India & Dinia would be a plurinational federation, like "Austria-Hungary," "Czechoslovakia," etc etc. Dinia would be comprised of all those regions in India which either had a majority-Muslim population; were ruled by Muslim princes; or both -- including a region called "Pakistan" (another word he made up; an acronym for the Muslim-majority region in the northeastern part of the country). India & Dinia would have close parity in population, making interdependence necessary; and while Hindus might dominate the House of Commons of the independent South Asian federation, Muslim and other minority princes would be more represented in the House of Lords, and would thereby prevent marginalisation. Or so the theory went, anyway.
As time wore on, issues between the Hindu and Muslim communities got hotter. Eventually the Khilafat Movement (which called for the revival of the Islamic Caliphate after it was abolished by Ataturk; and also for greater Muslim autonomism) was subsumed by the Pakistan Movement (which held that South Asian Muslims were a nation, and were owed a liberal, Westphalian nation-state). If things had gone differently, though, there could have been an Indian Federation comprised of two co-equal states: India & Dinia, the latter of which might have been the seat of a revived Islamic caliphate.
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Perfect. I read before that the Syrians, Egyptians, and Jordanians each wanted land from Palestine during the first war with Israel, and now we get an idea of what the Egyptians would claim in the Negev. Plus we see a couple extra border disputes here and there.
The honesty of T. E. Lawrence's map, with big question marks all over it, is in some ways admirable. Also Area C on Figure 2: 'Debatable Turkey between Armenia and Azerbaijan', We know, they're still fighting over it.
It's a shame that the details on the maps aren't more legible, but that could be a licencing thing. Interestingly, while Figure 1 doesn't have proposed details for Asia Minor, Caucasia or Palestine, it does appear to be consistent with Figure 2. The numbering of the maps suggests that there's at least one additional map in the document referenced.
Zoomable images of the Kurdistan proposals from the Qatar National Library:
Possible Redistribution of Ottoman and Arabian Territory on the Principle of Self-Determination
Possible Settlement of Arab Countries
Digital version of the original document from the Digital Library of the Middle East. The Maps start on slide 199, or more specifically:
Map to Illustrate the Agreements of 1916 in regard to Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, etc.
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I thought the arrow was labeling the thick red line "La Perouse Strait" and was thinking damn, that is a poorly placed canal.
These are greatZoomable images of the Kurdistan proposals from the Qatar National Library:
Possible Redistribution of Ottoman and Arabian Territory on the Principle of Self-Determination
Possible Settlement of Arab Countries
Digital version of the original document from the Digital Library of the Middle East. The Maps start on slide 199, or more specifically:
Map to Illustrate the Agreements of 1916 in regard to Asia Minor, Mesopotamia, etc.
Especially the 2nd... I had been looking for a way to divide up the Levant and Mesopotamia, in a manner other than OTL, Sykes-Picot, or the Larry of Arabia map...I had never seen one before which actually took into account the predominant tribes in the Interior regions....
According to the map's notes, the tribes were divided between Syria, Irak, Hejaz, Jezireh, and Kurdistan, based on which of these they were economically dependent on;These are great
I had never seen one before which actually took into account the predominant tribes in the Interior regions....
though it does note that the tribal borders are only approximate.
The Syrian and Hejazi tribes were considered to be granted tribal autonomy, while in Irak they "will have to be absorbed into the settled population".
It was supposed to be a sphere of influence rather than an outright annexation, IIRC.
Same is true for much of the French territory shown that is in current day Turkey (Antioch/Hatay being an exception, as it was more directly annexed (or well Mandate) as part of Syria).
The notes are absolutely fascinating, including recommendations for - in effect - ethnic cleansing of the Karabakh region, a free port at Trebizond to open up trade from the Black Sea to (then) Persia, and Abhkazia to be included in Russia. As well, of course, as a recognition that Arabia was not a 'no-man's land' to be divided up like America or Australia - we'd argue that the latter two weren't, either, of course, but it's at least a start!
Nikolay Danilevsky (1822-1885) was a Russian naturalist, historian, philosopher, economist, ethnologist, and pan-Slavist. In 1871, he published a book called "Russia and Europe", where he argued that Russia's history was unlike the rest of Europe, and therefore to be "indifferent" from Europe, Danilevsky envisioned a Russian-led alliance comprised of:
[Source]
- Russia with Austrian Galicia, Carpathian Ukraine, and Dobruja annexed.
- "Bohemian-Moravian-Slovakian Kingdom" (aka Czechoslovakia), comprised of the Kingdom of Bohemia and the Slovak portions of Hungary.
- "Serb-Croatian-Slovene Kingdom" (aka Yugoslavia), comprised of the Principality of Serbia, Montenegro, Bosnia-Herzegovina, "Old Serbia", the Serbian section of Banat and Vojvodina, Croatia, Dalmatia, Slovenia, the Austrian Military Frontier/Krajina, Istria (including Trieste), and parts of Carinthia and Styria (The latter mentioning up to the Drava River).
- Bulgaria, with "large parts" of Rumelia and Macedonia annexed.
- Romania, with Transylvania up to the Mureș River and the ethnic Romanian parts Bessarabia annexed in return for Dobruja being annexed by Russia (as seen above).
- Greece, with Thessaly, Epirus, southwestern Macedonia, all Aegean Islands, Crete, Rhodes, Cyprus, and the west coast of Anatolia annexed.
- "Tsargrad", which would be Constantinople separated from Turkey with added lands surrounding the Bosporus, Sea of Marmara, and the Dardanelles.
- The remainder of Hungary except Burgenland, as all "non-Magyar" areas including the areas mentioned above were to be taken away from it.
[Source]
Seems like I've seen some interpretations of Russian war aims in the WWI era that were similar to this as well... only with the addition of territory to be taken from the German Empire...
I guess Pan-Slavism had a notable influence on imperial Russian politics.
I agree, but I think there are sensible ways to configure the areas based on historical regions too.These are great
I had never seen one before which actually took into account the predominant tribes in the Interior regions....
