President Hoynes?
- Thread starter mspence
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MaxGerke01
Banned
Before Bartlett (Clinton) There was Newman Wire (Carter) and Lassister (Reagan/Bush) right ? Is Hoynes like a typical mainstream Republican or more like what we have seen in recent years OTL ? IMO West Wing remained a little too Republicans and too mainstream Republican at that. Republicans like Vinnick and Walken who are willing to work with Democrats should be more rare in the West Wing world especially if the election of Santos upsets conservatives as much as Obamas election did OTL. Hard to imagine it would be as bad but it could be close.
mspence
Banned
D Wire Newman appeared to have been President from 1986 to 1990. Lassiter followed him & was a two term President & Bartlett's predecessor. Leo was apparently his Secretary of Labor despite being a Democrat.
I could easily see a Hoynes/McGarry presidency that was more on the moderate/conservative side. If Hoynes had to resign because of his affairs then Leo would have been the presumptive Democratic nominee in 2006 as his successor. If Leo still dies or doesn't run because of his health, or if Hoynes is impeached and doesn't resign a la Clinton, then Arnold Vinick most likely becomes the next President.
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Actually in the show it is never stated WHEN Lassiter or Newman were in office. In the episode it is clear Lassiter is meant to be a Reagan stand-in, and Newman a Carter stand-in. Also the predecessor to Bartlet was a Republican. The show did reference that the Presidents were the same until at least Nixon but no more, Ford, Carter, and others were never mentioned in dialogue. There WAS a Ronald Reagan Hospital shown on the show but that's because they shot on location next to UCLA Ronald Reagan Medical Center.
A popular fan interpretation, and one followed by WW2010 and WW2018 threads here is that OTL presidents persist until 1986, then Bush (sorta), Newman (1 term), Lassiter (2 terms), Bartlet
The other leading interpretation is that West Wing follows a timeline where Nixon was impeached and new presidential election was called in 1974, with a Carl Albert being a caretaker President for a few months. Then Newman (1 term), Lassiter (2 terms, 1978-1986), Someone (one term 86-90), Bartlet's Predecessor (two term Republican, 1990-1998), then Bartlet
However going to the original premise, he'd likely be more of centrist, but it's only a matter of time before a scandal rocked him. Whether or not he held on to be re-elected is debatable. Josh might have found his way back into Hoynes' good graces, but I don't think any other regulars besides McGarry (who was a cabinet secretary under a Republican president) had a chance. Sam wouldn't have left that law firm, and CJ might wind up as Press Secretary still if McGarry is able to bring her onboard, but talk about awkward. Hoynes did have Senate experience but he would face a hostile congress.
The question is who Hoynes would choose as VP... could be "Wiley" who was big in the primaries alongside Bartlet, but I doubt Hoynes would accept Bartlet with MS as VP. So whoever Wiley is probably VP, doubt it would be McGarry, Hoynes needs more left muscle to balance the ticket
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MaxGerke01
Banned
In order for there to have been another Republican before Bartlett besides Lassiter wouldnt the pod have to be 1974 because there just would not be enough time ? Thats would be the case if it was 1986 -there would have to be at least 3 presidents for 3 elections in 12 years- possible but a lot for the US even then.
Pretty much, but I've never really liked the idea that Lassiter was Bartlet's immediate predecessor. Ultimately though Canon West Wing gives no answer. We know the Presidents were the same up to Nixon (barring Eisenhower's attorney general being different). There were 2 terms for Lassiter, 1 term for Newman in that hazy period between Nixon and Bartlet, and then Bartlet elected in 1998. That's it.
Either there's a bunch of never mentioned Presidents that died before 2003 (there was a line stating the Newman Bartlet and Walken were the only living former Presidents)
or Reagan and Carter and Ford died early. and Lassiter is Bartlet's predecessor.
Oddly enough the only people who can provide us with a firm answer (West Wing Show writers) hated the fact that they were in an expy universe, so they didn't care one iota and that's why they did everything possible not to talk about it.
MaxGerke01
Banned
Really ? I never heard that.So thats far enough back that thats actually the pod as opposed to the off year presidential elections right ?
Too bad they apparently did not respect their audience more...
More like Sorkin was complaining that he couldn't place it in the real world. Watch Newsroom and you will see how Sorkin wishes he could have done it.
Not really an early POD, Eisenhower's Attorney General was just mentioned as being the father of Peyton Cabot Harrison III, so presumably Peyton Cabot Harrison II was Ike's Attorney General in their world instead of either Rogers or Brownell (probably Rogers). It was a blink and you miss it reference. The offset election years is harder to explain as they mentioned historical elections often enough, but when the change occurred is never said beyond after '72. WW2010's solution of Reagan's infirmity is the one that works best, as it reduces the invented presidents to its absolute minimum. However you can't call it canon because canon itself doesn't say.
West Wing wiki has a real hard time determining between canon and fanon... To the point it was incredibly frustrating when I was writing for WW2010 and kept seeing someone editing in WW2010 fanon material to the wiki as canon. Lassiter and Newman are mentioned in only ONE episode of West Wing, and it did not go into a long description of either electoral history.
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