To some extent, yes. But the Boer war did show the possibility of war progress being considerably hindered by overlarge losses of horses and pack animals. That could inspire improvements in veterinary preparedness. It also showed the possibility of manpower shortages in the regular army necessitating recruitment drives and the necessity of a fast mobilization. This could (at least in theory) bring about limited conscription of some description. The problems with enforcing such a policy could lead to a version of reserved occupations being defined. This would not get a post-war system in a pre-war world but it might give the process a bit of a head start.
Post Boer War British Army Recommendations.
- Thread starter Peg Leg Pom
- Start date
Riain
Banned
Sure, but the Boer War was more likely seen as a colonial war that was poorly managed, hence the Haldane Reforms to sort out the worst of the problems within politically palatable limits.
Australia introduced conscription for the Militia, purely for home defence and Canada was also looking into conscription for the same reason with similar limitation for home service. Given the Haldane reforms gave Britain some 14 infantry and ~5 Cavalry divisions purely for home defence as well as 7 formed Divisions that were capable of rapid deployment to something like the Boer War I doubt Britain would see conscription as needed, indeed I'd guess part of the motivation for reform was the desire to avoid conscription.
However if Britain was involved in something like the Spanish-American or Russo-Japanese war in ~1900 I could easily see your suggestions being implemented.
The notion of the Chosen Man as a scout sniper is interesting, paid as a corporeal but a position earned by superior field craft and marksmanship.
The S.M.L.E is probably up to the job if the best of any batch are earmarked for the scouts. (In sniping in France H. Hesketh-Pritchard describes the Pattern 1914 Enfield sniping rifle so possibility a specialist sniping rifle would be need for the chosen men)
Compass, draw telescope and a telescopic sight would probably not impose too big a strain on the treasury and deliver significant bang for the exchequer's buck.
The feat of Thomas Plunket at Cacabelos could be used as an example and something to beat.
Hesketh-Pritchard in his book sniping in France devoted a chapter on scouting and certainly espoused the scout-sniper as having a useful role in open warfare and not just the stalemate of the trenches. (He waxed lyrical on the superiority of a draw telescope over binoculars)
As a relatively small change, that requires no new technology it seems a reasonable and logical lesson to be drawn from the war.
Unlike Haldane, I have the advantage of Hesketh-Pritchard's work highlighting the disadvantage the British had in the sniping war in the early days of W W 1. Was the evidence from the Boer War sufficient to trigger the change?
Perhaps rather than something planned - the formation of 'scouts' within every regiment is something of a happy by product
The Lovat scouts having returned from the Boer war became the first dedicated sniper unit in the British army as OTL - however it was not something absorbed across the entire 'Tribe'
Perhaps then lets us have a competition 'Lord Lovats Scout trophy' or some such with every regiment in the Regular and TA/Yeomanry sends teams (if possible) every year to compete and the trophy becomes somewhat of a holy grail for a Regiment to win and across the British Army the competition becomes very...well...'competitive'.
The teams that enter are scored on field-craft, endurance, observation, camouflage and of course marksmanship and by 1914 there is a core of 'chosen men' or scout-snipers (or perhaps just 'scouts') in every Regiment and any taboos regarding sniping within the tribe are a distant memory.
This creates a
This has one flaw, the Army has to recognise what it has acquired!From a previous search in Hesketh-Pritchard's book there is this revealing the military mind.
From a previous search in Hesketh-Pritchard's book there is this revealing the military mind.
Standard armed forces throughout the ages I suspect
The idea of Scout Sniper would have to become embraced across the entire tribe - a cadre in every Regiment and a 'school' in every Division - not just odds and sods as OTL as it otherwise becomes very easy for what was a small number of specialist's OTL to become 'absorbed' by such necessary tasks such as managing trolleys!
Riain
Banned
It's interesting how this discussion tends to be about either massive things like reserved occupations for manpower or tiny things like the shape of rifle bullets or fostering some men as better shots.
Is this because the Haldane Reforms pretty much hit the nail on the head given the time period, the task and what was politically possible?
Is this because the Haldane Reforms pretty much hit the nail on the head given the time period, the task and what was politically possible?
Baden Powell set up the Boy Scouts as a result of his experience in Africa. Have his ideas taken up by Infantry officers to improve the field craft of their soldiers. Having designated marksmen in each platoon and skilled scouts would be advantageous IMVHO.
Depends on what you call big and small I suppose. Though in my case I am focused on the background/ war production issues because I like how they can be subtle but affect the entire war effort. Also, a lot of tech and organizational issues were discussed up thread.
Here is one you might consider to be in the middle. I have been reading Percy Scott’s “Fifty Years in the Royal Navy” (which I highly recommend btw. The guy is a shameless self promoter, has a chip on his shoulder against the Admiralty, and I would not like to work with him but he seems to have hit the nail on the head on some things) and he mentions that in the Boer war in Natal, a major problem for General Buller was that his artillery was outranged by Boer heavy artillery. 12-pounders (4"), 4.7" and 6" naval artillery on makeshift carriages designed by Scott. The fact that this happened during a "colonial conflict" (and was later repeated in China) should have, by rights, spurred the adoption of more heavy artillery in the army, on dedicated artillery carriages.
EDIT: 12-pounders (4"), 4.7" and 6" naval artillery on makeshift carriages designed by Scott were instrumental in both holding and later relieving Ladysmith. And Scott speculates that had the Admiral in Charge given Buller the 4 x 6" guns that he had asked for he may have relieved Ladysmith the first time, three months early. (Sorry, kind of dropped my point half way through there)
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marathag
Banned
Far easier to change a small technical item, than to to change an embedded belief in the mind
The Simms Motor War Car was developed in 1902, it had some success and lots of interest. There's potential in the idea, though the dead bodies of many, many, British senior officers will be needed.
There's also the faffing about over the 7mm round.
Wouldn't be ironic if the Germans helped Britain implement the changeover to the .276 Enfield round and a Mauser-action rifle to go with it? Just in time for the Great War...
The Auto-5 is a shotgun, not a potential basis for a semi-automatic rifle (which is extraordinarily unlikely anyway).
There are fifteen British observers listed here. I wonder what their recommendations were? Bannerman certainly took to the use of observation balloons.
ETA: it seems that Hamilton (wiki) had some ideas:
His book, A Staff Officer's Scrap-Book during the Russo–Japanese War is out of copyright, it might be worth a look. Link.
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I think you have pretty much hit the nail on the head yourself!
As defence reviews go it certainly wasn't the worst. The B.E.F would have benefited from better artillery and more machine guns. If the 1914 B.E.F was transferred to 1900 and had to fight the Boer War it would have acquitted itself well.
Could more have been inferred from the 1905 strategic war game possibly, but given the budgetary constraints and political climate I think you're right in that Haldane did a good job.
If people are looking for a B.E.F that could stop Germany at the Belgian frontier then something much more seismic than the Boer war would be needed and I doubt the Britain o 1902 would be willing to find the money for the divisions needed to make a major change to the battles in 1914.
And so as you rightly observe the thread has more tinkering round the edges than revelatory improvements.
Dave
Because they and the weapons designed for them (Lee-Enfield and Maxim basically) are in service and in production. Change costs money and the Treasury doesn't want to pay.
The Russians/Soviets/Russians used the 7.62x54mmR round for over a century and are still using in, including in new weapons.
A future certainly, though obviously of a universe several points to strawberry....
BTW, thanks for that, it may appear in a Traveller game sometime.
You might be able to sell them for internal security.
Basically yes. The one lesson that was accepted was the wrong one. If the development process had been faster the British Army could have been caught in mid-stream in 1914.