Pope Mary Magdalene
- Thread starter Landshark
- Start date
I doubt she'd be a leader in Rome itself. Ancient Roman society was rather sexist, and though the initial group of Christians in Rome would likely be composed of those "left out" by Roman society (slaves, women, social misfits, etc), they probably wouldn't accept Mary Magdalene as a leader for public-relations purposes (a female leader might make the other Romans think the Christians were even more fruit-loopy than they already though they were, and that would make recruiting harder).
In short, you might have to change the nature of Roman society itself, or make the Christians of the Eternal City much more non-conformist than OTL.
However, perhaps she could end up a leader elsewhere, and thus be remembered better than OTL. Her presence as a major leader in the early church migtht make later, more institutionalized Christianity more open to female leadership.
In short, you might have to change the nature of Roman society itself, or make the Christians of the Eternal City much more non-conformist than OTL.
However, perhaps she could end up a leader elsewhere, and thus be remembered better than OTL. Her presence as a major leader in the early church migtht make later, more institutionalized Christianity more open to female leadership.
According to legend, the was a female Pope. Sopposedly she became a Monk (Yes a monk) becasue she was running from some one. She was a very pious monk, and quickly accelerated up the chain to become Pope.
Of corse this is false, but Mary could do someing to the simmiler effect.
According to my uncle, on one of the walls in the Vaticin, there is a wall with the names and dates of all the pope, and he said that there were 2 years in beetween two pope where the church was Pope-less. Anyone know what im talking about or what the deal there was?
Of corse this is false, but Mary could do someing to the simmiler effect.
According to my uncle, on one of the walls in the Vaticin, there is a wall with the names and dates of all the pope, and he said that there were 2 years in beetween two pope where the church was Pope-less. Anyone know what im talking about or what the deal there was?
Wingmaster,
Is that gap around the time where there're 2 (then 3) rival Popes? One in Italy, one in France, and one who was chosen by some renegade cardinals as an alternative to the first two?
Is that gap around the time where there're 2 (then 3) rival Popes? One in Italy, one in France, and one who was chosen by some renegade cardinals as an alternative to the first two?
The earliest Christians in Rome most likely belonged to the circle of the Synagogue, mostly from among the 'god-fearing' Gentiles (and even if we assume that Mary Magdalene was very young at the time she met Jesus - age 14 would be enough for her to be referred to as a 'woman' - in order for her to be a useful leader she would have to be in the earliest years of the Christian community in Rome). Many of these people would not have too much of a problem acknowledging a woman as a religious leader (it was, after all, common in other religious groups of the time as well as other Christian communities in the Hellenistic world). As an eyewitness with close ties with Jesus (just how close may be a subject of debate even at the time) she would certainly be able to command the kind of respect required. As to 'bishop', the formal position wouldn't even exist yet, so a better term would be 'community leader'. Yes, Paul speaks of 'episkopoi', but that's much closer to 'Elders' or 'preachers' than what we understand by a bishop.
It might lead to a stronger and earlier separation of the Christian community in Rome from the Jews. I doubt the synagogue would be as forgiving of a female leader. If she writes down stuff, of course, we have a pretty good chance of it surviving, given her exposed position and great prominence. Or maybe not - I hate to say it, but this may terminally damage the credibility of the new religion with the Roman upper classes. Which makes a strong incentive not to talk about this.
For all we know, she might have been.
Oh, and regarding 'Pope Joan': it allegedly happened in the 9th century, and while I personally doubt the veracity of the story (it is too useful as a propaganda tool) there's very little that wasn't possible in the Lateran at the time.
It might lead to a stronger and earlier separation of the Christian community in Rome from the Jews. I doubt the synagogue would be as forgiving of a female leader. If she writes down stuff, of course, we have a pretty good chance of it surviving, given her exposed position and great prominence. Or maybe not - I hate to say it, but this may terminally damage the credibility of the new religion with the Roman upper classes. Which makes a strong incentive not to talk about this.
For all we know, she might have been.
Oh, and regarding 'Pope Joan': it allegedly happened in the 9th century, and while I personally doubt the veracity of the story (it is too useful as a propaganda tool) there's very little that wasn't possible in the Lateran at the time.
"Or maybe not - I hate to say it, but this may terminally damage the credibility of the new religion with the Roman upper classes. Which makes a strong incentive not to talk about this."
Aye. That's what I meant to say when I said that the Church in Rome might view a female leader as too much of a PR risk.
Aye. That's what I meant to say when I said that the Church in Rome might view a female leader as too much of a PR risk.
Matt Quinn said:
I honestly have no idea if it was around the 'Great Scism', my uncle never really took notes, but that would be one explination
With the aid of a false beard (a la Monty Python) she could have become Pope Mario I.
WngMasterD said:
That should be the gap between Pope Clement IV. and Pope Gregory X. When Clement died in november 1268, the cardinals couldn't agree on a successor, so they were locked "con chiave" (by key) in the papal palace of Viterbo (thus the word conclave). It took them until September 1. 1271 to elect Tebaldo Visconti, who took the Name of Gregory X. In the meantime two cardinals died and were refused a burial until a new pope was elected. They were left to rot at the side of their colleagues....