Pop Culture with no President Reagan

How would pop culture be different if Reagan lost the 1980 election (either Carter wins a second term or another Republican comes out in front to win)? Some things that would likely change:
Family Ties would be radically different (if it happened at all), which may affect the career of Michael J Fox.
The Moral Majority may have less of an impact in TTL, meaning that stuff like Ed Meese's war on porn and the PMRC might not happen.
Toy-based cartoons would never exist, since Reagan was the one who deregulated children's programming. Therefore people like Bruce Timm and Paul Dini do not get the experience working on action-adventure cartoons like He-Man and GI Joe, and stuff like Transformers and GI Joe never become the pop culture icons they became IOTL.
 
How would pop culture be different if Reagan lost the 1980 election (either Carter wins a second term or another Republican comes out in front to win)? Some things that would likely change:
Family Ties would be radically different (if it happened at all), which may affect the career of Michael J Fox.
The Moral Majority may have less of an impact in TTL, meaning that stuff like Ed Meese's war on porn and the PMRC might not happen.
Toy-based cartoons would never exist, since Reagan was the one who deregulated children's programming. Therefore people like Bruce Timm and Paul Dini do not get the experience working on action-adventure cartoons like He-Man and GI Joe, and stuff like Transformers and GI Joe never become the pop culture icons they became IOTL.

Hmm.. interesting, wonder what would happen in music - whether in this climate, the interesting stuff bubbling away underground would break through commercially earlier than OTL - perhaps with different tastes, commercial radio (and especially rock radio) cast a wider net than just classic rock & hair metal?
 
Wait so does no Reagan mean no My Little Pony? :eek: :(

If children's television was forbidden to have toy-based shows, then yes.
Ironically, Ninja Turtles WOULD still be around as you could still have a show based off a comic book.
 
Regarding the PoD, I'm not sure just saying "Reagan loses in 1980" is enough to go on. If he loses to Carter, that would involve some pretty early PoDs anyway, so why not do away with the Carter Presidency while we're at it (Ford wins 76, easily done)? But that leaves the question of whether no President Carter has any major pop culture changes in its own right.

Conversely, having another Republican President win leaves open the question of how different from Reagan they'd be -- and since Bush is the top contender anyway, why not just say Reagan still wins, but is killed by Hinckley? But then would the pop culture changes we're talking here about still happen?
 

Gan

Banned
Anyone time traveling from the time period wouldn't get laughed at when they tell downtimers who the President is.
 
We'll never have a short, catchy way of telling people to deconstruct large continuous structures used to support roofs on buildings and homes. Where would the world be without "Tear Down This Wall"? :eek:
 
Let me offer something -- say we go with a TL where Ford wins the 1976 EC, even as he loses the popular vote to Carter; the late 70's are as tough economically as ever, but now the man leading them is a Republican President who is now past being a lame duck.

What are the pop culture effects? Well for one thing, AIUI the OTL's 1970's essentially saw a ratings battle between CBS, whose edgy social shows like All in the Family and MASH led the pack, and ABC, with more nostalgic and/or "soft" shows like Happy Days, Three's Company, and Charlie's Angels. If liberals and center-left voters are particularly pissed off TTL, combined with more viewers less pissed off at "Democrat government", this could well see the CBS shows doing better in the short term. Thoughts?

Another possible effect -- could well be the year after such a bitter election, Star Wars doesn't do as well (maybe even seeing initial gross 2/3 of what it was OTL) while Close Encounters of the Third Kind does better (maybe 50% better). Then you could see, by decade's end, the two highest grossing films of all time being directed by Steven Spielberg. If he decides to follow up with something less farcical than 1941, his next work, whatever he chooses, could be incredibly influential, possibly even leaving a mark on the 1980 election. Any ideas?

Anything else?
 
the effect on Punk Rock would be huge. from the Dead Kennedys and Reagan Youth to that day in 2003 when thousands of punks shotguned a beer upon hearing the news...
 
Okay, this is really two questions:

1) How would pop culture in the 1980s be different if Reagan got the Republican nomination in 1980 but lost to Jimmy Carter?; and

2) How would it be different if a non-Reagan Republican beat Carter in '80 (or, as John Frederick Parker suggests, if Reagan wins but is assassinated early in his term)?

The easy answer to the first question is: monumentally. A quick detour on non-pop-culture issues: Republicans are going to blame Reagan for losing to an obviously-vulnerable incumbent; Reaganite conservatism is going to be depicted as non-viable on the national scale in favor of Nixonian centrism as articulated by George Bush and Bob Dole. On the Democratic side of the ledger, a re-elected President Carter doesn't slash corporate tax rates in 1982, nor does he authorize massive increases in the defense budget. My belief -- YMMV -- is that the cyclical nature of the economy augurs a recovery from the "malaise" of the late 70s even without Reagan's tax cuts. So by 1984, Carter's approval ratings are going to be in the high 60s, and Walter Mondale is going to breeze to victory (if not quite as easily as Reagan IOTL).

That means the 1980s will be defined politically by classic, old-school, big-government liberalism. It also means that (a) Republican internal critiques over supply-side economics -- remember when George H.W. Bush called it 'voodoo economics?' -- are likely to win the day, meaning that Republicans become the party of deficit reduction, not tax cuts; and (b) neo-Keynesian economics, rather than being discredited, is likely to become the dominant view both among academics and in the general electorate as the way out of economic downturns. President Carter obviously doesn't fire the striking air traffic controllers, and the early-'80s move to crush labor is blunted. (In the long run, I think the decline in union power is relatively inevitable given the reconfiguration of the U.S. to a post-industrial economy, but in the short term, as the major Democratic power base in the late 70s, they're going to get propped up rather than smacked down.) Oh, and there's no co-opting of the Christian Right by the Republican party, either.

That's a long-winded way of saying: re-electing President Carter in 1980 is likely to validate and prolong old-school big-government liberalism as not only viable, but probably the mainstream political view of the largest plurality of the electorate, with a public-private partnership view of government constrained by fiscal responsibility (the Nixonian view, also held by George H.W. Bush in the 1970s) becoming the primary opposition. That, in turn, means that pretty much everything we think of today as being core Republicanism -- supply-side economics, tax cuts as fiscal policy, huge defense budgets, Christian social conservatism, and federalism as devolution to the states -- will be reduced to the fringes of the most conservative (and most discredited) wing of the Republican Party.

Now, I want you to just think about how pretty much everything in the 1980s came to be defined either by, or in opposition to, the cultural shift that occurred whereby those conservative principles came to be held by a large plurality of Americans.

Here's what's in and what's out:

TV: Obviously, there's no Family Ties, but I think we also lose shows that reveled in ostentatious greed, like the prime-time soaps (Dallas, Dynasty, Falcon Crest, etc.). We lose over-the-top Cold War paranoia shows like The Day After. Crime and legal procedurals are probably still popular, but I would expect them to be more socially conscious and message-driven, like L.A. Law and later, Law & Order, rather than the anything-justifies-getting-the-bad-guy mindset of shows like Hunter. Violence on TV is probably more regulated, so you probably miss out on TV wrestling and later shows like American Gladiators. On the other hand, sitcoms are probably largely unaffected, which means you still have Cosby; I think you also still have sitcoms like Diff'rent Strokes and Silver Spoons that play to liberal tropes. Children's TV continues to be regulated, so the next wave of cartoons would look more like Challenge of the Superfriends than OTL's toy-driven shows; you'd still have the Smurfs, but say goodbye to Transformers, G.I. Joe, He-Man and the like. That probably means that Robotech breaks out even more so than OTL.

Movies: Like TV, only more so. Say goodbye to the do-what-it-takes cop movie (Lethal Weapon and the like); bid a fond farewell to flag-waving Cold War films like Red Dawn, Rambo: First Blood, and Rocky IV. I actually think you'd probably lose the entire Schwarzenegger-Stallone mindless action hero genre -- no Rambo, no Predator, no Cobra, etc. (Sadly, you'd also lose The Running Man, an outstanding satire on the deregulation of television.) Rocky and the Terminator would still be hits, but producers would draw very different lessons from their success. Back to the Future would be very different (if it exists at all); I doubt that neo-50s-nostalgia would catch on in the Carter-Mondale '80s. Nor would 80s excess films like The Secret of My Success or Wall Street. Of the 50 most popular films of the 80s, I can only imagine a handful surviving in any fashion. What fills the void? It's hard to say; this is going to be a time of peace and prosperity without ostentatiousness and over-the-top-patriotism, more like OTL's 1990s.

Porn: There's no Meese Commission, so there's no crusade to get Playboy out of the local 7-11. The last word from the Justice Department on pornography will be the Johnson Commission, which essentially found that pornography was harmless and that access thereto may even serve as an "outlet" for otherwise would-be sexual predators. I suspect that attitudes towards porn would move more quickly towards where they are now, IOTL.

Cigarettes: Huge. Without Surgeon General C. Everett Koop, cigarettes are never derided in pop culture as being 'low-class'; instead, the classic notion of the 'smoke-filled room' being integral to power continues, and cigarettes continue to occupy a parallel space alongside the martini.

Music: Totally different. Madonna isn't the "Material Girl" without Reagan, nor do we see the socially conscious rock of the 1980s of Genesis, U2, Sting, and (of course) Don Henley. We lose out on the bluegrass-inspired, patriotic-sounding (if not necessarily patriotic, per se) "Born in the USA" album. Even though many Democrats are plenty horrified by heavy metal in the 80s, Tipper Gore never meets up with a powerful clique of mostly Republican wives and forms the PMRC, nor is there a Meese Commission on pornography. So I think you'd start off with a continuation of the trends of the 1970s with guitar-rock and apolitical post-punk acts like Blondie. The guitar-rock scene evolves similarly to Dirty Laundry; rock goes harder, heavy metal is bigger, and so on. The post-punk scene transitions into the poppier New Wave/Britpop stuff while skipping over social-commentary-oriented New Wave acts.

That's for starters. :eek:
 

John Farson

Banned
That's for starters. :eek:

So basically the 90s a decade earlier, minus a sordid presidential sex scandal blown WAY out of proportion?

I could live with that.:D

Could there still be Miami Vice, or was that also dependent on the Reagan zeitgeist, since beneath all the 80s glitz and glamor it was also more critical of the prevailing times than many these days might realize.
 
2) How would it be different if a non-Reagan Republican beat Carter in '80 (or, as John Frederick Parker suggests, if Reagan wins but is assassinated early in his term)?

Actually, I would argue these are two* very different questions as well; and again, either of which would have later PoDs than what Carter would need to beat Reagan outright. Add in my preferred scenario of Ford winning in 76, and you've got four distinct questions:

1) What if Ford (barely) keeps the Presidency in 1976, paving the way for a Democratic 1980's? My favorite go-to for plausibly stopping Reagan with a fairly late PoD. I've offered some starting thoughts on this above (on the CBS-ABC ratings, box office, etc); adding to that, I think with Ford still in office for the rest of the decade, the "shadow" of Nixon would loom larger in the public mind in general as the President remained associated with him (I'm particularly thinking about the fictional President from Being There, who was apparently going for a cross between the two).
2) What if Carter (somehow) beat Reagan in 1980? This one has some answers here, but I've got some issues with it. The only thing I can be sure of is it would require a fairly early PoD to feel plausible (certainly pre-1980), and there's no easy consensus on what that PoD is or when it would be, yet whatever said PoD is would surely have pop culture effects in its own right.
3) What if a different Republican beat Carter in 1980? Kind of depends on which Republican, and how they won. Not much speculation yet for this one.
4) What if Hinckley successfully killed Reagan? I actually like this idea, but it would be plenty different from anything else we're talking about. To start with, the right's initial backlash against Hollywood would be enormous; not to mention a more realpolitik President around this time means no anti-communist idealist films showing support for freedom fighters like the muhjadeen; and plenty else.

Thoughts?
 
If children's television was forbidden to have toy-based shows, then yes.
Ironically, Ninja Turtles WOULD still be around as you could still have a show based off a comic book.

What makes a show toy-based, though? Or a toy based on a cartoon and not, say, a comic book that originated it?

I think you'd still get "My Little Pony" for the same reason I had a small stuffed animal road runner in the early '70, maybe 6-8 inches tall only, but still there were others available. Of course, you might not have a lot of accessories, I don't know what all comes with them. Or,a ctually, whic h came first when it comes to that; the cartoon or the toys.
 
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