POD for the United States of India to be a superpower in 2023

I’m writing a collection of short stories set in a fictional universe where India is a hegemonic superpower state called the United States of India (economic, cultural, military superpower similar to the OTL USA). What should be the POD for some of the below story plots to be plausible?

Key story plots would be:
1. Racism perpetrated by Indian characters over Western and East Asian characters in addition to the existing caste discrimination.
2. Economic immigrants from impoverished western and East Asian countries trying to get into Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Delhi which are the top 4 global cities all immigrants are attracted to.
3. Indians being the most desirable partners but are unattainable spouses due to arranged marriages within Indian communities.
4. Indian movies and music being the most consumed entertainment.
5. Indian tech companies monopolising technological and digital development.
6. English remains Lingua franca of global society.
7. Former Indian colonies in East Africa, Burma and Malaya with significant Indian populations greater than OTL.
8. Cold War participants include America, Europe, China, Russia, Indian with interchangeable alliances.

P.S. I understand that some of these plot points might be unpalatable to some but this is a work of speculative fiction and not intended to offend any sensibilities. The purpose of the book is to highlight the universality of certain social phenomena, biases and belief systems. Also please let me know if this is something that you’d be interested to read (and where you’re from to do a basic market analysis)
 
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1. Racism perpetrated by Indian characters over Western and East Asian characters in addition to the existing caste discrimination.


I don't think that India could become superpower with discrimination systems. And nation which has still strickt caste system hardly can develope very much.

2. Economic immigrants from impoverished western and East Asian countries trying to get into Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Delhi which are the top 4 global cities all immigrants are attracted to.

India should firstly become really attractive. And yours first point wouldn't help that. Who would want extremely racist country?

3. Indians being the most desirable partners but are unattainable spouses due to arranged marriages within Indian communities.

Not really sure if such traditionalism helps.

4. Indian movies and music being the most consumed entertainment.

Bit hard without it getting really globally influential status. And Indian culture is so different that not sure if Bollywood movies can succeed in Europe or North America.

5. Indian tech companies monopolising technological and digital development.

Indian companies might are able to take good share but I don't know how it could take monopoly status.

6. English remains Lingua franca of global society.

Why English instead Hindi?

7. Former Indian colonies in East Africa, Burma and Malaya with significant Indian populations greater than OTL.

That would require really early POD.

8. Cold War participants include America, Europe, China, Russia, Indian with interchangeable alliances.

Superpower India would require such early POD that at least USA would be butterflied away such as we know. And do you mean that there is multipolar Cold War? In such case India hardly can say being superpower since there hardly is room more than two factions. And you would need some global ideological rivalry and rivalry over sphere of influence.

You are going to need really early POD. Probably even something which avoids Aurangzeb messing Mughal Empire and keep that strong. At least avoid any colonisation. It would be easy thing make India great power (what it is already is in OTL more or less).
 
I don't think that India could become superpower with discrimination systems. And nation which has still strickt caste system hardly can develope very much.
USA: Am I a joke to you?

With a POD before 1900 I feel like this should be fairly easy- just have an Indian empire become a hegemonic power over the subcontinent before gaining the colonies you describe; for it to be the United States of India you could just have the monarchy be deposed and replaced with a federal republic. Bengal itself was already close to industrializing before it was colonized, so it's definitely possible for an indigenous Indian state to be a globally competitive power. For English to still be the lingua franca you could have Britain still colonize America and the USA be a global power like OTL; due to greater cultural similarities I'd imagine Europe would still adopt English over Hindi

With a post-Raj POD, however, this becomes much harder. I definitely think it's possible for India post-independence to be more prosperous and successful than OTL (avoiding the Partition is an excellent starting point) but I can't see post-Raj India gaining any colonies anywhere. But since it seems like your world will be significantly different I think you can afford to be pretty non-specific with your POD
 
I don't think that India could become superpower with discrimination systems. And nation which has still strickt caste system hardly can develope very much.
Who would want extremely racist country?
The US is an example of a society that continuously reforms and improves but never fully eradicates racism (19th century slavery to 2020 George Floyd's murder). Irish, Italians, Jews migrated to US despite facing racism and were subsequently assimilated. Indians migrate to Dubai, UK and Singapore despite facing racism and have not necessarily fully assimilated. I feel Indian society would follow a similar trajectory with regard to caste and race. Mauritius is an example of a majority Indian society where Indians look down on black Creoles and Singapore is an example of majority Chinese society that looks down on Indians. I feel there can be interesting stories from this dynamic if roles were reversed in ATL and India was the country people were migrating to.

Why English instead Hindi?
Just for storytelling convenience. I have multiple characters from different countries and I feel English would be an ideal lingua franca.

And Indian culture is so different that not sure if Bollywood movies can succeed in Europe or North America.
Yes and still American movies are watched and emulated throughout the world despite cultural differences. I think it is because of cultural hegemony rather than relatability or quality. Many Hollywood movies are ridiculous fantasies that bear no similarity to real lives in the West, the same as many Bollywood movies that do not represent real Indian life.

You are going to need really early POD. Probably even something which avoids Aurangzeb messing Mughal Empire and keep that strong. At least avoid any colonisation. It would be easy thing make India great power (what it is already is in OTL more or less).

With a POD before 1900 I feel like this should be fairly easy- just have an Indian empire become a hegemonic power over the subcontinent before gaining the colonies you describe; for it to be the United States of India you could just have the monarchy be deposed and replaced with a federal republic. Bengal itself was already close to industrializing before it was colonized, so it's definitely possible for an indigenous Indian state to be a globally competitive power. For English to still be the lingua franca you could have Britain still colonize America and the USA be a global power like OTL; due to greater cultural similarities I'd imagine Europe would still adopt English over Hindi
So I'm thinking the POD could be either of these 4 events:
  1. 1739 Mohammed Shah Rangila defeats Nader Shah at Karnal (either alone or in alliance with Sikh and Maratha) followed by military modernisation and proto-federalisation
  2. 1757 Siraj ud Daula defeats EIC at Plassey followed by British expulsion and rapid Bengal industrialisation.
  3. 1761 Marathas defeat Ahmad Shah Abdali at Panipat followed by political consolidation and proto-federalisation
  4. 1857 Rebels defeat EIC followed by British expulsion, political consolidation and proto-federalisation
 
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A few PODs from the 1960s post-partition would be enough.
1. Racism perpetrated by Indian characters over Western and East Asian characters in addition to the existing caste discrimination.
For racism against western characters, colonialism is enough. For racism against east asian characters, a much more drawn-out conflict with the Chinese - ideally in the early years of the Indian republic.
2. Economic immigrants from impoverished western and East Asian countries trying to get into Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Delhi which are the top 4 global cities all immigrants are attracted to.
A worse cold war for western nations and a worse 1990s asian financial crisis for east asian nations would be required.
3. Indians being the most desirable partners but are unattainable spouses due to arranged marriages within Indian communities.
4. Indian movies and music being the most consumed entertainment.
These two points fit together since people are attracted to the faces they see in media. Another POD might be better organised green and white revolutions in india which result in more nutrients in the indian diet. Generally indians would grow to be taller and stronger rather than suffering from diabetes and malnutrition.
5. Indian tech companies monopolising technological and digital development.
This would require huge PODs such as putting much more focus on R&D in India, making indian tech CEOs want to move their head offices to India, etc.
7. Former Indian colonies in East Africa, Burma and Malaya with significant Indian populations greater than OTL.
I'll skip points 6&9. This one requires better relations between the local majority population of those nations and the indians living in those nations. That would require a POD for each nation to make it such that the locals don't get jealous of the minority indian population who probably possess more wealth and look more attractive. I am not sure but in those countries there might be stereotypes of indians which are similar to the stereotypes of jews OTL.
 
1761 Marathas defeat Ahmad Shah Abdali at Panipat followed by political consolidation and proto-federalisation
How about the British are defeated in the battle of Plassey in 1757 by the Mughlas, because of this Victory the Marathas delay their campaign to capture Delhi while Mughal empire because of the Victory becomes resurgent and tries to exert its control over the territories that are under it's control especially in the Indus where the eventually come into conflict with the Qizilbash and the Pathan tribes. The Durrani Shah has enough and gets in touch with the Marathas down south and together work out an alliance to curb the resurgent Mughal power. The negotiation succeeds and a temporary Anti Mughal alliance is formed.

In 1761, The Marathas attack Bihar and Bengal Subha in an attempt to wrestle it away from the hands of the Mughals which goes badly, until the Durrani Shah attacks from the north west, he is assisted by local elites who are fearful of losing power, money and prestige to the resurgent Mughal power, side with the invading Afghans and together the two power extinguish whatever resurgence the Mughals had. The Mughals are reduced to area around the Delhi while the Durrani Shah takes over lands west of the Sutlej while the Marathas takes over Bengal and get the right to levy Chauth and Sardeshmukhi in Bihar subha.

The Marathas enter into an agreement with the British to re open factories and trading outposts that the Mughals had shut down but the British have to start from the beginning and this time they have to content with formidable Maratha Navy and an Army that was being modernized rapidly with the help of the French. The Marathas also grand trade concession to the French as well in Bengal and soon Bengal began to proposer because of active trade with the European powers.

With the increased amount of funds the Marathas, from the newly conquered Bengal province continued to expand their control over the rest of north India, Bihar falls, soon Awadh falls and by 1772 the Marathas capture Delhi ending the Mughal empire and declaring the Chhatrapati as Shāhanshāhān-e-Hindustan

With most of India being under the Maratha control they went further north west, the Campaigns financed by the Trade in bengal with the European powers. With an ever extending empire, a need was felt to re organize the administration of the empire. Initially the reforms were driven by the synthesis of Hindu and Islamic practice's of governance and when that failed to secure the unity and proper administration, help from Europeans was sought and by early 19th century, with help from the French, the administration of the Maratha Empire began to resemble more or less like France.
 
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I’m writing a collection of short stories set in a fictional universe where India is a hegemonic superpower state called the United States of India (economic, cultural, military superpower similar to the OTL USA). What should be the POD for some of the below story plots to be plausible?

Key story plots would be:
1. Racism perpetrated by Indian characters over Western and East Asian characters in addition to the existing caste discrimination.
2. Economic immigrants from impoverished western and East Asian countries trying to get into Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Delhi which are the top 4 global cities all immigrants are attracted to.
3. Indians being the most desirable partners but are unattainable spouses due to arranged marriages within Indian communities.
4. Indian movies and music being the most consumed entertainment.
5. Indian tech companies monopolising technological and digital development.
6. English remains Lingua franca of global society.
7. Former Indian colonies in East Africa, Burma and Malaya with significant Indian populations greater than OTL.
8. Cold War participants include America, Europe, China, Russia, Indian with interchangeable alliances.

P.S. I understand that some of these plot points might be unpalatable to some but this is a work of speculative fiction and not intended to offend any sensibilities. The purpose of the book is to highlight the universality of certain social phenomena, biases and belief systems. Also please let me know if this is something that you’d be interested to read (and where you’re from to do a basic market analysis)
I have my real doubts on these, You could get India to be say.....something like Japan albeit on steroids, maybe a great power that is more powerful than the Soviet union and China but still not as developed as the west.

You will have India in the 19th and in the 20th Century exporting agricultural products in return for Industrial goods and by mid 19th Century I can see India having factories that manufacture Textile, sugar, Iron and steel, Metals, coal, wood, glass, porcelain and leather products with a nascent machine building industry and Manufacture of arms and ammunitions mostly for the domestic market as the Europeans would raise tariffs for Indian goods while Indians would do the same. Industry at this time would be dominated by the state and few foreign investor as business is considered to be a risky proposition and the Bureaucracy lack of experience in handling Industry arrests its growth.

From 1860s to 1890s there will be expansion of railways, telegraph and canals and it is only this network has been established can India industrialize at a rapid pace and begin to catch up with the European powers. From 1890s you will start to see the proliferation of entrepreneurs, establishment of new factories that manufactures Chemicals, electricity, electrical equipment and machinery, expansion and modernization of old ones again mostly geared to the domestic market. I suspect this take off phase would last from 1890-1945.

It is only after 1945 or whenever the Americans decide enough is enough is when the Americans would forced the Europeans to decolonize and open up their national markets for foreign competition would you see very rapid growth in the economy since the cost of doing business would come down massively and India can use its massive labour force to out compete Europeans lead in technology.

yes I am pro American, Is that a crime?
 
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How are you planning to unite India? Is it still going to be done by the British, or are you planning to have a native empire do it, or are you planning to have a different European colonizer do it?

I'd say focus on reducing corruption, and depending on how you unite India, on creating a strong sense of Indian identity.
 
The floated Maratha-Nepalese-Sikh alliance materializes and the British presence in India is reduced until the Crown separately puppetizes these enlargened states bringing the common law, parliamentary government, and an anglophone civil service. The former allies turn on each other and an anglified Maratha Confederacy absorbs its former allies becoming the United States of India with English as a lingua franca.
 
I’m writing a collection of short stories set in a fictional universe where India is a hegemonic superpower state called the United States of India (economic, cultural, military superpower similar to the OTL USA). What should be the POD for some of the below story plots to be plausible?

Key story plots would be:
1. Racism perpetrated by Indian characters over Western and East Asian characters in addition to the existing caste discrimination.
2. Economic immigrants from impoverished western and East Asian countries trying to get into Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Delhi which are the top 4 global cities all immigrants are attracted to.
3. Indians being the most desirable partners but are unattainable spouses due to arranged marriages within Indian communities.
4. Indian movies and music being the most consumed entertainment.
5. Indian tech companies monopolising technological and digital development.
6. English remains Lingua franca of global society.
7. Former Indian colonies in East Africa, Burma and Malaya with significant Indian populations greater than OTL.
8. Cold War participants include America, Europe, China, Russia, Indian with interchangeable alliances.

P.S. I understand that some of these plot points might be unpalatable to some but this is a work of speculative fiction and not intended to offend any sensibilities. The purpose of the book is to highlight the universality of certain social phenomena, biases and belief systems. Also please let me know if this is something that you’d be interested to read (and where you’re from to do a basic market analysis)
Indian movies are simply not very suitable for western audiences. Too cheesy and melodramatic. You would need to change the very zeitgeist of indian cinema industry.
 
I’m writing a collection of short stories set in a fictional universe where India is a hegemonic superpower state called the United States of India (economic, cultural, military superpower similar to the OTL USA). What should be the POD for some of the below story plots to be plausible?

Key story plots would be:
1. Racism perpetrated by Indian characters over Western and East Asian characters in addition to the existing caste discrimination.
2. Economic immigrants from impoverished western and East Asian countries trying to get into Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Delhi which are the top 4 global cities all immigrants are attracted to.
3. Indians being the most desirable partners but are unattainable spouses due to arranged marriages within Indian communities.
4. Indian movies and music being the most consumed entertainment.
5. Indian tech companies monopolising technological and digital development.
6. English remains Lingua franca of global society.
7. Former Indian colonies in East Africa, Burma and Malaya with significant Indian populations greater than OTL.
8. Cold War participants include America, Europe, China, Russia, Indian with interchangeable alliances.

P.S. I understand that some of these plot points might be unpalatable to some but this is a work of speculative fiction and not intended to offend any sensibilities. The purpose of the book is to highlight the universality of certain social phenomena, biases and belief systems. Also please let me know if this is something that you’d be interested to read (and where you’re from to do a basic market analysis)
A worse WW1, followed by socialist revolutions across the West and maybe throw a Anglo-American war in the mix such that India becomes the de-facto center of the British empire. IMO India is in a very good position to be a colonial capitalist superpower, it has vast manpower reserves who importantly can stand the heat in Africa or Malaya, lots of untapped minerals including coal and iron, and a culture that values - hell, worships- capital accumulation (Hindu rate of growth you say, but Indian immigrant culture abroad puts Protestant work ethic to shame).
ITTL most of Europe including GB remains steeped in a centrally planned malaise while East Asia falls back into familiar habits of isolationism. America is a mega-Brazil which does receive a lot of European immigration during the 20th century but for one reason or another (racism?) its institutions are weak and prone to populism. In the world systems model, India/South Africa/Australia/rest of the rump British Empire are the imperial core, Europe and East Asia are the semi-periphery and all others periphery.

1. I can see East Asians being seen through the old orientalist lenses and fears of them out-breeding everyone else. Racism against White Europeans is a bit more difficult, since they are "Aryan" like upper-caste north Indians, but I can see them being stereotyped as backward hicks.
2. Obvious result of being the only open society in the world.
3. Not impossible, Indians are seen as desirable in the UK OTL because they tend to be well to do, British-Indian intermarriage is pretty prevalent IIRC.
4. Another obvious result of being the only open society in the world. For the peeps suggesting that Bollywood is too incompatible with Western culture, see Anime, K-Pop and the success of Bollywood in Soviet Union (something like half of all Soviet blockbusters are Bollywood dubs).
5. Again being an open economy does that to you, India punches above its weight in tech OTL anyways.
6. Since India is still de jure the British Empire they decide to keep English as the lingua franca for administration and education.
7. There was a lot of colonialization by Indians OTL, the rump British empire just accelerates it in order to ensure these places don't slip away. Indians would dominate business, government and military - just like they did OTL under colonial and even post-colonial rule for a while.
8. Unstable military junta America vs socialist Europe vs Tsarist Russia vs nationalist China. easy peasy.
 
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I don't want to sound like I am simply advertizing and promoting my own stuff, but I am writing a timeline about an Independent and Powerful India.


My PoD was that the Marathas won the Battle of Panipat. This leads to a series of events that led to a more united India earlier, and Britain sees its influence ended and is kicked out.
 
1. Racism perpetrated by Indian characters over Western and East Asian characters in addition to the existing caste discrimination.
2. Economic immigrants from impoverished western and East Asian countries trying to get into Bombay, Madras, Calcutta, Delhi which are the top 4 global cities all immigrants are attracted to.
3. Indians being the most desirable partners but are unattainable spouses due to arranged marriages within Indian communities.
4. Indian movies and music being the most consumed entertainment.
5. Indian tech companies monopolising technological and digital development.
6. English remains Lingua franca of global society.
7. Former Indian colonies in East Africa, Burma and Malaya with significant Indian populations greater than OTL.
8. Cold War participants include America, Europe, China, Russia, Indian with interchangeable alliances.
Well... my timeline does not perfectly fit with these 8 points; I am still in the midst of writing WW2 in this TL. But nevertheless, let's see whether my TL fits in:
1) Not really. Caste discrimination in my TL hasn't been a thing since the 1830s. And racism... also not really that prevalent. Well, except for British, French, Russian, and Americans (because they fought India in WW1, since India joined the Central Powers.) But other than that, not much racism.
2) This is definitely the case. During the 1920s, known as the "Golden Age" for India, India got a lot of immigration from Southeast Asia (which are all protectorates/allies of India), the Near East, Africa, and a decent amount of Jewish Immigration (majority of Jewish Immigration went to Madagascar, which is independent in my TL). So yeah, definitely fits.
3) IDK really about this one. I don't focus on the cultural part.
4) Meh. Indian movies and music are consumed a lot by India's allies/protectorates, as well as Madagascar and Japan and their allies too. But it is not there at all in Europe, due to racism. Except for Germany (pre-Great War).
5) I have not gotten so far into the timeline. I'm still in WW2 rn.
6) Why English? Hindi is a pretty widespread language amongst the AACPS (Afro-Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere), which composes of most of E/SE Asia, as well as a decent amount of Africa.
7) This is definitely the case, although Indian "colonies" are not exactly colonies. They are allies/protectorates.
8) I have not gotten to that part of the TL yet, but let's just say that the Cold War in this TL will be quite multipolar and complicated...
 

octoberman

Banned
You are going to need really early POD. Probably even something which avoids Aurangzeb messing Mughal Empire and keep that strong. At least avoid any colonisation. It would be easy thing make India great power (what it is already is in OTL more or less).
Aurangzeb didn't mess Mughal Empire but he made it strong
Bengal itself was already close to industrializing before it was colonized,
Bengal was fuedal country nowhere near industrialization
  1. 1739 Mohammed Shah Rangila defeats Nader Shah at Karnal (either alone or in alliance with Sikh and Maratha) followed by military modernisation and proto-federalisation
Mughal Empire was already falling apart before Nader Shah invaded it and he only be accelerated it. Bahadur Shah I need to have comptent successors to avoid it's fall
  1. 1757 Siraj ud Daula defeats EIC at Plassey followed by British expulsion and rapid Bengal industrialisation.
Bengal was too feudal and embrioled in succession wars to rapidly industrialize
  1. 1761 Marathas defeat Ahmad Shah Abdali at Panipat followed by political consolidation and proto-federalisation
Marathas were a feudal confederacy which couldn't federalize. It first needs to centralize
  1. 1857 Rebels defeat EIC followed by British expulsion, political consolidation and proto-federalisation
1857 Rebels were too disorganised and lacking in resources to defeat the EIC. Their disorganisation prevents industrialization

The Marathas enter into an agreement with the British to re open factories and trading outposts that the Mughals had shut down but the British have to start from the beginning and this time they have to content with formidable Maratha Navy and an Army that was being modernized rapidly with the help of the French.
Maratha Army and Navy were centuries behind the British to modernize that rapidly

Initially the reforms were driven by the synthesis of Hindu and Islamic practice's of governance and when that failed to secure the unity and proper administration, help from Europeans was sought and by early 19th century, with help from the French, the administration of the Maratha Empire began to resemble more or less like France.
Real world isn't a grand strategy game Marathas would be starting from a stage that more than half a millennium to reach the centralisation of 18th century France
I have my real doubts on these, You could get India to be say.....something like Japan albeit on steroids, maybe a great power that is more powerful than the Soviet union and China but still not as developed as the west.
Japan had a radically different history from India leading to its development

You will have India in the 19th and in the 20th Century exporting agricultural products in return for Industrial goods and by mid 19th Century I can see India having factories that manufacture Textile, sugar, Iron and steel, Metals, coal, wood, glass, porcelain and leather products with a nascent machine building industry and Manufacture of arms and ammunitions mostly for the domestic market as the Europeans would raise tariffs for Indian goods while Indians would do the same. Industry at this time would be dominated by the state and few foreign investor as business is considered to be a risky proposition and the Bureaucracy lack of experience in handling Industry arrests its growth.

From 1860s to 1890s there will be expansion of railways, telegraph and canals and it is only this network has been established can India industrialize at a rapid pace and begin to catch up with the European powers. From 1890s you will start to see the proliferation of entrepreneurs, establishment of new factories that manufactures Chemicals, electricity, electrical equipment and machinery, expansion and modernization of old ones again mostly geared to the domestic market. I suspect this take off phase would last from 1890-1945.

It is only after 1945 or whenever the Americans decide enough is enough is when the Americans would forced the Europeans to decolonize and open up their national markets for foreign competition would you see very rapid growth in the economy since the cost of doing business would come down massively and India can use its massive labour force to out compete Europeans lead in technology
How was feudalism abolished which is required to start industrialization?
 
Give a short summary
The Marathas win the Battle of Panipat w/ help of Sikh/Jats. This leads to the Republic of Punjab being created, as well as Marathas taking more land.

In the East, the Dominion of Oudh/Awadh, taking after their western neighbors, expand & consolidate their own land filling the void left by the Mughal Empire's collapse.

In the South, Hyder Ali embarks on expanding the Kingdom of Mysore, conquering Travancore.

The British in Bengal starts to feel the pressure of a united front between the Indian states, especially after the Marathas back Mysore in its war against them & their puppet Nizam of Hyderabad.

So they clamp down and screw in the nails in their Bengal lands, leading to resentment in the local Bengali mercantile elite & amongst the populace at large.

The Great Bengal Famine happens, & the BEIC f*cks up by raising the land rent to make up for the 10 million deaths. This is the final nail in the coffin, and the Bengal Rebellion/Revolution starts.

This rebellion was led by the mercantile elite and supported by the common people. The other Indian states also declare war on the British. This, and the American Revolution happening leads to their defeat.

In 1783, Britain signs a humiliating agreement at the Treaty of Calcutta, & they've lost all influence in India.

This is the series of events that lead to an independent india.
 
I don't think that India could become superpower with discrimination systems. And nation which has still strickt caste system hardly can develope very much.
I disagree. See, every single culture war about discrimination or supposed instances of such in the last 200 years.
 
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