Philippa Plantagenet, Countess of Ulster dies in 1371

[VVD0D95]

Just as it says on the tin, let's say that Philippa Plantagenet, only child of Lionel of Antwerp dies in 1371 and her daughter Elizabeth is stillborn, what potential consequences are there?

The first one that comes to mind is that her husband Edmund Mortimer will need to marry elsewhere, where he marries to I am not sure, perhaps to someone on the periphery of the Royal Family?

Secondly, Henry Hotspur will naturally need another wife when the time comes.

Thirdly, the shenanigans around Edward III's entail are removed I think, as there's no fear of a female succession should something happen to Richard II here, so, one imagines that the whole flip flopping of the heirs that occurred otl will be removed as well, this could also mean John of Gaunt is perhaps less invested in chasing the Castilian throne, being a heart beat away from the English throne in reality.

Are there any other big consequences that I am missing here?

@isabella @CaptainShadow @Kellan Sullivan @FalconHonour @The Professor @mcdnab @Tyler96

 

[CaptainShadow]

Mortimer could remarry to a de Bohun, perhaps?

Also Ulster goes back to E3, so he has a large estate to grant in Ireland if he so wishes. Langley's just getting married so maybe the he gets it?

 

[VVD0D95]

Mortimer could remarry to a de Bohun, perhaps?

Also Ulster goes back to E3, so he has a large estate to grant in Ireland if he so wishes. Langley's just getting married so maybe the he gets it?

Mortimer to de Bohun would be fascinating, if it's the elder girl then Thomas of Woodstock is somewhat screwed for his own marriage prospects.

And this is also a possibility, which would be interesting, Edmund might actually go to Ireland and be active there.

 

[RedKing]

That means the Lancastrians rule England unopposed, this appeals to my love of the Lancastrians.

 

[VVD0D95]

That means the Lancastrians rule England unopposed, this appeals to my love of the Lancastrians.

Assuming Richard II remains without issue? Most definitely, also likely means Bolingbroke perhaps doesn't need to go about trying to come up with all sorts of shit to justify taking the throne should events still play out as they did otl.

 

[CaptainShadow]

That means the Lancastrians rule England unopposed, this appeals to my love of the Lancastrians.

There's no one with an arguably higher claim but this doesn't necessarily mean that the Yorks aren't going to get the throne, especially if Henry VI is.....Henry VI.

 

[isabella]

Assuming Richard II remains without issue? Most definitely, also likely means Bolingbroke perhaps doesn't need to go about trying to come up with all sorts of shit to justify taking the throne should events still play out as they did otl.

He would still need them as he was trying to declare himself the rightful King over Richard. Still I would not count on Richard choosing Anne of Bohemia over the Visconti girl and her dowry. Also is likely who ATL Richard would be more decise in going AGAINST Bolingbroke (who has not the money of his wife) and trying to name York as heir.

 

[RedKing]

There's no one with an arguably higher claim but this doesn't necessarily mean that the Yorks aren't going to get the throne, especially if Henry VI is.....Henry VI.

Henry VI would in a scenario like this, be ideally butterflied away.

 

[RedKing]

Assuming Richard II remains without issue? Most definitely, also likely means Bolingbroke perhaps doesn't need to go about trying to come up with all sorts of shit to justify taking the throne should events still play out as they did otl.

Ideally Richard II would die without issue, or Henry IV does what he did in otl.

 

[CaptainShadow]

Henry VI would in a scenario like this, be ideally butterflied away.

Ideally Richard II would die without issue, or Henry IV does what he did in otl.

Ideally Richard II has a kid, avoiding Glyndwr, the Percy rebellion, and most importantly the Lancastrians.

 

[RedKing]

Ideally Richard II has a kid, avoiding Glyndwr, the Percy rebellion, and most importantly the Lancastrians.

Ideally that child is a girl who Henry IV marries and has Lancastrian children with.

 

[VVD0D95]

He would still need them as he was trying to declare himself the rightful King over Richard. Still I would not count on Richard choosing Anne of Bohemia over the Visconti girl and her dowry. Also is likely who ATL Richard would be more decise in going AGAINST Bolingbroke (who has not the money of his wife) and trying to name York as heir.

This is true, of course if he does go for the usupration route could he not argue that as the next legal heir it's his if Richard has abdicated?

Oh interesting, what makes you say Bolingbroke wouldn't have the money of his wife?

 

[isabella]

This is true, of course if he does go for the usupration route could he not argue that as the next legal heir it's his if Richard has abdicated?

Oh interesting, what makes you say Bolingbroke wouldn't have the money of his wife?

If Mortimer remarry to one of the Bohun sisters the other will marry Woodstock, meaning who Bolingbroke need to find a wife elsewhere.

Ideally that child is a girl who Henry IV marries and has Lancastrian children with.

Is much more likely who she will marry Norwich (unless ATL Norwich married Alianore Holland)

 

[CaptainShadow]

who Henry IV marries and has Lancastrian children with.

Not happening if the Lords appellants schtick still happens.

 

[VVD0D95]

If Mortimer remarry to one of the Bohun sisters the other will marry Woodstock, meaning who Bolingbroke need to find a wife elsewhere.


Is much more likely who she will marry Norwich (unless ATL Norwich married Alianore Holland)

This is true, which makes me think that Gaunt may seek to arrange the marriage between Bolingbroke and his otl wife.

 

[VVD0D95]

So, who do people think Mortimer should marry? a De Bohun lass or someone else?

 

[CaptainShadow]

So, who do people think Mortimer should marry? a De Bohun lass or someone else?

I say a De Bohun.

 

[VVD0D95]

I say a De Bohun.

Interesting why is that?

 

[isabella]

For me also a de Bohun.

Interesting why is that?

Because he lost a pretty big (and royal heiress) so he will likely search another heiress to replace him and if he was good enough for a royal bride would be likely good enough for a Bohun girl.

 

[VVD0D95]

For me also a de Bohun.



Because he lost a pretty big (and royal heiress) so he will likely search another heiress to replace him and if he was good enough for a royal bride would be likely good enough for a Bohun girl.

This is very true, which makes me think Henry Bolingbroke's going to be looking for someone who may not be an heiress but brings helpful political connections