PC: Germany Unified by a State Other than Prussia or Austria

[Westphalian]

Up to 1700, hardly anyone would have bet on Brandenburg-Prussia as future unifiyer of Germany. Then, besides Austria, the princes of Bavaria, Saxony and perhaps even Hanover (Brunswick) had similar odds.

My personal favorite would be still a hypothetical line of competent native rulers after 1600 uniting and strengthening the conglomerate of the United Duchies of Cleve-Juliers-Berg(-Marck-Ravensberg). Perhaps even with a PoD in ~1540 allowing them to keep Guelders. Once some kind of Enlightenment leads to the idea of seculaization, they bag Cologne and perhaps Münster and Paderborn, and they are the by far most populous and most industrializable part of Germany.

 

[Wendell]

Up to 1700, hardly anyone would have bet on Brandenburg-Prussia as future unifiyer of Germany. Then, besides Austria, the princes of Bavaria, Saxony and perhaps even Hanover (Brunswick) had similar odds.

My personal favorite would be still a hypothetical line of competent native rulers after 1600 uniting and strengthening the conglomerate of the United Duchies of Cleve-Juliers-Berg(-Marck-Ravensberg). Perhaps even with a PoD in ~1540 allowing them to keep Guelders. Once some kind of Enlightenment leads to the idea of seculaization, they bag Cologne and perhaps Münster and Paderborn, and they are the by far most populous and most industrializable part of Germany.

[IMAGE]

It would help these states immensely if they were in Wittelsbach hands, and ultimately passed to the Palatinate. From there, conquer the surrounding church lands, and there's a good basis.

 

[Wendell]

1400s? Any other candidates who could have seized Brandenburg though?

I don't know who was in contention at the time. I would guess that there were Welf, Ascanian, Wittelsbach, and Wettin possibilities in addition to the Hohenzollerns, but I really don't know.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

I don't know who was in contention at the time. I would guess that there were Welf, Ascanian, Wittelsbach, and Wettin possibilities in addition to the Hohenzollerns, but I really don't know.

When did the Habsburgs come to prominence?

 

[profxyz]

When did the Habsburgs come to prominence?

Rudolf I was the first Habsburg Holy Roman Emperor (1273-1291) and it was him who gave Austria to the Habsburgs.

Re: Brandenburg, the von Quitzows in the 15th Century could have made their practical dominance into reality and usurped the title from the Hohenzollerns.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Rudolf I was the first Habsburg Holy Roman Emperor (1273-1291) and it was him who gave Austria to the Habsburgs.

Re: Brandenburg, the von Quitzows in the 15th Century could have made their practical dominance into reality and usurped the title from the Hohenzollerns.

The von Quitzows, were they also militaristic or were they more of a "let's make money" dynastic group like the family that William of Orange-Nassau came from?

 

[Zhein]

If you are willing to go a little bit further, there's the succession of Charles the Bold.

He can survive the battle of Nancy ?
With him alive he might chose to marry Marie to someone else, like a minor power to keep the Burgundian power alive, and probably someone close and powerful enough. That leaves pretty much the Palatinate as a candidate, and then gives a nice chance for the Palatinate to unify Germany latter.

During the 30YW, Friedrich V is elected king of Bohemia. With the power of burgundy behind the Palatinate, it could change the fate of the Hapsburg in the empire.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

If you are willing to go a little bit further, there's the succession of Charles the Bold.

He can survive the battle of Nancy ?
With him alive he might chose to marry Marie to someone else, like a minor power to keep the Burgundian power alive, and probably someone close and powerful enough. That leaves pretty much the Palatinate as a candidate, and then gives a nice chance for the Palatinate to unify Germany latter.

During the 30YW, Friedrich V is elected king of Bohemia. With the power of burgundy behind the Palatinate, it could change the fate of the Hapsburg in the empire.

Where was Charles the Bold ruling?

 

[Van555]

Where was Charles the Bold ruling?

As duke of burgundy and perhaps king of lotharingia.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

As duke of burgundy and perhaps king of lotharingia.

Lotharingia? Would they have a shot at becoming the alpha dog like Prussia did? Oh wait, Lotharingia is basically the Netherlands before it did become the Netherlands.

 

[Zhein]

Lotharingia? Would they have a shot at becoming the alpha dog like Prussia did? Oh wait, Lotharingia is basically the Netherlands before it did become the Netherlands.

Netherlands, plus French Burgundy, Lorraine (which is the actual Lotharingia, not netherlands), Belgium, Switzerland, and northern France (Picardie), plus the lands of the duke that will mary Marie of Burgundy. For exemple could be the Palatinate, that would create a juggernaut able to resist France and Austria and under the Thirty Year War to unite the HRE with a protestant emperor.

It is already the alpha dog of the region, wanting to remain independent from France and bullying small states all around. The problem was that Charles the bold died before marying his daughter and not securing his succession.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Netherlands, plus French Burgundy, Lorraine (which is the actual Lotharingia, not netherlands), Belgium, Switzerland, and northern France (Picardie), plus the lands of the duke that will mary Marie of Burgundy. For exemple could be the Palatinate, that would create a juggernaut able to resist France and Austria and under the Thirty Year War to unite the HRE with a protestant emperor.

It is already the alpha dog of the region, wanting to remain independent from France and bullying small states all around. The problem was that Charles the bold died before marying his daughter and not securing his succession.

So the house of Burgundy would be the dominant dynasty had Charles the Bold remained alive?

 

[Zhein]

So the house of Burgundy would be the dominant dynasty had Charles the Bold remained alive?

Depends on a lot of stuff, ie: who would have Marie. Charles planned for his daughter to wed a son of Louis XI but the son was promised to some English girl. He could decide to wed her to a minor noble, or maybe even he can have a son and marry him to some minor noble inside the empire. But anyways, not having the Hapsburg inherit the burgundy already changes the balance in the Empire.

 

[unprincipled peter]

In 1810, Austria was on a severe decline. Prussia was a big fish in a small pond, but still dwarfed by all other powers. Jerome was in Westphalia, but he didn't take the hint from brother Luis (or Lucien, for that matter) that not toadying to Napoleon was a bad career move. His time is limited.

Bavaria and Saxony both laid their bets on Napoleon. Had Napoleon not let them down by being stupid in Russia, you're going to find a Europe where Austria and Prussia are sideshows, and Saxon/Bararian Kings with the opportunity to rise to glory, since they backed the right horse. IF they take the opportunity to do so, once Napoleon dies, they are on the inside track to fill the power vacuum. After that, anything can happen.

 

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Sweden overextending itself into Germany would only result in a much worse collapse though if things had not gone the same way Gustav II Adolf had intended. Although I raised the issue of Denmark as a potential candidate to unify Germany since they literally share a border with Brandenburg and is rather close to Hamburg.

Not onlyi that, but it's done in the TL "A More Personal Union." The only thing is, I don't recall if that's called Germany or Denmark once all si said and done. Stil, even if the latter, it could in time come to feel more like "Germany" if more states joined in. ANd I'm not sure the OP needs it to be called "Germany" necesasrily - I wonder if it would just be called "Austria" if the Hapsburgs united Germany.

Speaking of the Hapsburg, not only the War of Austrian Succession but the possible death of the Archduke without an heir in 1670 could easily elevate Bavaria into the lead for Who Will Unite Germany - Ferdinand Maria could inherit Austria by marryiniage, while also becoming the elected King of Bohemia. His son was quite ambitious militarily but never quite had the strength to do a lot, but here he'd have a lot more.

 

[MarshalBraginsky]

Not onlyi that, but it's done in the TL "A More Personal Union." The only thing is, I don't recall if that's called Germany or Denmark once all si said and done. Stil, even if the latter, it could in time come to feel more like "Germany" if more states joined in. ANd I'm not sure the OP needs it to be called "Germany" necesasrily - I wonder if it would just be called "Austria" if the Hapsburgs united Germany.

Speaking of the Hapsburg, not only the War of Austrian Succession but the possible death of the Archduke without an heir in 1670 could easily elevate Bavaria into the lead for Who Will Unite Germany - Ferdinand Maria could inherit Austria by marryiniage, while also becoming the elected King of Bohemia. His son was quite ambitious militarily but never quite had the strength to do a lot, but here he'd have a lot more.

The one thing is, how did Denmark accomplish that feat?