Other ways Britain could become a republic other then Cromwell’s Commonwealth succeeded

[FillyofDelphi]

Firstly, I doubt the Puritans would perform a reign of terror, as the Puritans were primarily Gentry, and Merchants, the majority of the Rural Population remained Pseudo-Catholic, and even Pseudo-Pagan, for a long time after the civil war. Secondly, the Levellers never had the population to perform a reign of terror, the thing that spooked the Gentry/Merchants about them was that they existed, and doubly so for the Diggers, in fact a key part of Cromwell's Consolidation of power was his crushing of the Army Agitators. Similarly, a Stuart Victory arguably would prevent the rise of so-called Classical Liberalism, and would lead to English Liberalism, and thus American Liberalism, being about comparable to France, from the start. A further complication is that with a Stuart Victory the Northern US Colonies would likely become more Puritan, from refugees, this would likely form a divide between the North and South, that coupled with the Settlements in Canada, would prevent any type of American Independence. The Other issue is that at this time the key reason for the Strife, was the Parliamentary Control of Taxes, which if he had won Charles would have likely gotten greater control of, this along with Loans would then allow for Continental Wars, and colonial wars, likely more with the Dutch, and it is hard to predict, if these would have the same outcome as under Cromwell, and Charles II.

Touche. I readily concede that the current of the Civil War needs to take a fundimentally different turn in order to result in the kind of political-cultural point we'd need, and the Levelers aren't the right tool to do that (being too ideologically radical for mass appeal). Perhaps the Civil War's middle stages become a more dragged out affair over the countryside, allowing political disagreements to fester in the Parlamentarians between the more Puritan/Radical members who want to impose major reforms on British society as a whole and those of a more moderate bent who're willing to tolerate the old ways of broader society and keeping the basic systems intact? This could result in the later trying form a parallel force to the New Model Army under their own control, which could be based on co-opting and training/equiping formations of Clubmen (who'd have,due to the more drawn out war, more plentiful and organized into clearer and easy to negotiate groups under the more popularly supported local Gentry and clergy who's doctrine best meshed with popular local practices, as opposed to a centeralized state church). If this breaks out into the schisming between the two sides, you could get a reign of terror from the Puritans NMA against precisely these kinds of psuedo-Catholic regions to try to intimidate the masses against joining/supporting the Clubmen: killing multiple birds with one stone by opening the door for the Royalists to regain the upper hand, baking the culture of popular participation/will into the national history and certain factions of the intelligencia/powers, and creating a recognition and fear of the power of the masses and merchants that would cause the aristocracy to keep the franchise and access to power limited and form their own expensive standing army as a tool of royal absolutism after seeing how it could be used to keep the masses in line. Do that, and you have a chance of producing a system that at some point makes conditions not too dissimilar to those in pre-revolutions Italy that, like them, could find success with a French sugar daddy.

 

[Sam R.]

One that narrowly dodges it would be a victory by the Diggers and Levellers. Effectively a form of Agrarian Proto-Socialist Anarchist system. I'd expect you'd likely see Parliament consist of representatives (or delegates) for each community. I expect it would be representatives in reality though.

Annual parliaments, manhood suffer age and public voting mean and they're delegates unless they become martyrs.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

Lose the Napoleonic Wars convincingly to France.

I don't think Napoléon would establish a republic in Great Britain.

 

[Ingsoc]

I don't think Napoléon would establish a republic in Great Britain.

I don't think he'd be able to establish himself over Britain. I think it's possible Britain would go into revolution after a harsh peace and overthrow the Georgians.

 

[Peg Leg Pom]

The upper and upper middle classes were bricking it that the Chartist movement would turn into a full blown revolution such as was sweeping Europe. This would seam the most likely time for Britain to become a republic short of a foreign invasion.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

Annual parliaments, manhood suffer age and public voting mean and they're delegates unless they become martyrs.

Can you re-word that? The use of English is quite broken and I'm unsure what you entirely meant to say.

 

[Sam R.]

The demands of British radicalism, including chartism, as a broad movement in relation to parliament were:

1) annual parliaments: yearly elections
2) public voting, giving "the mob," a chance to physically molest voters for voting against their interest
3) universal manhood sufferage: a vote for every adult male
3a) electoral boundary reform, the end to rotten borough gerrymanders

Combined, this would mean that undesireable acts by parliamentarians would result in the maiming or murder of such parliamentarians. They would not be representatives, but delegates. Parliamentarians who acted as representatives would soon find themselves martyred.

 

[Alcsentre Calanice]

The demands of British radicalism, including chartism, as a broad movement in relation to parliament were:

1) annual parliaments: yearly elections
2) public voting, giving "the mob," a chance to physically molest voters for voting against their interest
3) universal manhood sufferage: a vote for every adult male
3a) electoral boundary reform, the end to rotten borough gerrymanders

Combined, this would mean that undesireable acts by parliamentarians would result in the maiming or murder of such parliamentarians. They would not be representatives, but delegates. Parliamentarians who acted as representatives would soon find themselves martyred.

I really think you misunderstood something there.

 

[Falecius]

One that narrowly dodges it would be a victory by the Diggers and Levellers. Effectively a form of Agrarian Proto-Socialist Anarchist system. I'd expect you'd likely see Parliament consist of representatives (or delegates) for each community. I expect it would be representatives in reality though.

Would be radically interesting, enough to lead to (likely) an ideological war with continental forces wanting to destroy it when it proves to become a rallying call to continental people.

What would be very interesting is the relationship between this Anarchist Republic and the 13 Colonies. Considering the egalitarianism at home, and the potential that the 13 colonies serve as a refuge for Parliament, you could have the civil war spread to the 13 colonies.

But TL;DR - Anarchist Republic ftw!

The Colonies weren't even 13 at the time. And Parliament would hardly consider them as a refuge anyway (the Netherlands are probably likelier in that timeframe, hell, maybe even Ireland). While a Leveller English or British Republic would be interesting, I think the colonies would be gone in that event.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

The Colonies weren't even 13 at the time. And Parliament would hardly consider them as a refuge anyway (the Netherlands are probably likelier in that timeframe, hell, maybe even Ireland). While a Leveller English or British Republic would be interesting, I think the colonies would be gone in that event.

This is why I'm curious how it would operate - most of the colonies have at least been chartered at this point, so it could be that whatever institution is established effectively becomes the lifeline. It could be that they take great interest in the colonies, potentially as a way to expand their influence, or simply to see them persist as examples of Leveller Republicanism.

Whilst the colonies effectively being gone is possible (I assume you mean they're abandoned or defect), I think a potential preservation is the most interesting scenario, as it all relies on how egalitarian the Levellers really are. Do they respect Native American claims on the land? Do they fail to and regret that later on? Are they less egalitarian, and only egalitarian within the Republic? Are they more diplomatic and expand with Native American allies? All are possible IMO. I quite like the idea of a Leveller Republic that outright allies, and later integrates Native American tribes. A bit utopian I'm sure, but I can see a strong ideological division between the Republic and the Kings of Europe, having Native allies in North America seems the most sensible way to preserve a "Leveller North America" and ensure that an attack on the Levellers means a war for the New World.

 

[Derek Jackson]

Well what if the Government managed to so mishandle the Navel Mutineis as to radicalize the Navy Sailor s and Ireland' revolt happed at a bout the same time in the 1790s