On Your Side: A Tale of the Dukakis Administration

Preface

“DUKAKIS PICKS SENATOR GLENN OF OHIO, FORMER ASTRONAUT, FOR NO. 2 SPOT”-New York Times, 7/13/88

“... The announcement of Senator John Glenn came as no short surprise, with speculation having considered the Senator as one of the finalists. His moderate positions are arguably in line with that of the party as a whole, and helps to keep the Governor's support among the moderates in the Democratic Party. In addition, his support from the Jackson camp (aided in no small part by campaign manager Gerald Austin) should help to keep the party unified heading into that the convention. Of concern however should be noted his outstanding $2.4 million dollar debt from the 1984 presidential campaign...”-Washington Post, 7/13/88

“The Dukakis Administration shall secure two things first and foremost! The first will be an agreement in order to curtail the arsenals of both the United States and Soviet Union and second of all will be to maintain nuclear non-proliferation and do all efforts available under the United States!”-John Glenn Nomination Speech, 7/20/88

“And my friends, if anyone tells you that the American dream belongs to the privileged few and not to all of us, you tell them that the Reagan era is over, you tell them that the Reagan era is over and that a new era is about to begin.”-Michael S. Dukakis Nomination Speech, 7/21/88

“Dukakis Rehires Sasso For Post; Left After Ending Biden Rise”-Los Angeles Times, 7/27/88

“Rumors coming out of the Dukakis Campaign today is that the hiring of John Sasso is in part a reconciliation between the Governor and his former chief of staff ahead of the presidential election. The role Sasso will play in the Dukakis campaign is not clear, and is expected to suffer clashing roles with the campaign manager, Susan Estrich.”-New York Times, 7/27/88

“BUSH CHOOSES SENATOR QUAYLE OF INDIANA, A 41-YEAR OLD CONSERVATIVE, FOR NO. 2 SPOT”-New York Times, 8/17/88

“Dukakis Barely Leading Bush, 47-45, In Gallup Poll”-Los Angeles Times, 8/23/88

“Senator Glenn Defends Running Mate In Attacks on Military Record”-Cincinnati Enquirer, 8/23/88

“Discussion on Debates Breaks Down!”-Boston Globe, 8/31/88

“The reports of the private discussions between both the Bush and Dukakis campaign have reportedly broken down over both the number of debates to be held and that of the structure of the debates. The Bush campaign has remained committed to holding a single debate for the election while the Dukakis campaign has been amenable to hosting three debates. In addition, the Bush campaign has remained committed to hosting the discussion of both domestic politics and foreign relations in it, while the Dukakis campaign has urged them to be kept safe. Whether any debates will actually be held for this election will remain to see...”-Chicago Tribune, 8/31/88

“Senator Glenn Defends Against Attacks On Record and Attacks on Running Mate”-Houston Chronicle, 9/8/88

“No Debates To Be Held This Year; Bush Campaign Refuses to Compromise”-Washington Post, 9/10/88

“The Bush campaign as reported by sources within both campaigns had continually refused to budge from the request of a single debate between Vice President Bush and Governor Dukakis and held with both a mixture of domestic policy and foreign policy. The Dukakis campaign had by the final point prior to the 'shutdown' of negotiations on it, had brought it down to a total of two debates to be held, with one on domestic policy and the other on foreign policy, but the Bush campaign had remained with their intent on a single debate.”-New York Times, 9/10/88

“Glenn Attacks Bush In Speech Over Refusal To Hold Debates”-Chicago Tribune, 9/12/88

“If the Vice President of the United States, and someone currently campaigning for the President of the United States is refusing to debate his opponent in front of the nation, what does it say for when he will represent us on the worldwide stage, especially against the Soviet Union?”-John Glenn Speaking In Denver, Colorado on 9/11/88

“Dukakis Leads Bush 49-44 In New Poll”-New York Times, 9/15/88

“The refusal by Vice President Bush to debate Governor Dukakis has affected polling sharply, with polling from the 10th through 13th showing a significant drop in support as compared to before, and can put forth a concerning trend for the Vice President in his race for the White House...”-Washington Post, 9/15/88

“Bush Agrees to Debates With Dukakis!”-Los Angeles Times, 9/17/88

“The Bush campaign has finally agreed to that to hold a series of debates with the Dukakis campaign, featuring two presidential debates, with one having the focus on domestic policy and the other having the focus on foreign policy. However what was apparently something conceded by the Dukakis campaign was to host a pair of vice presidential debates between Senator Glenn and Quayle, rather than the normal one...”-Chicago Tribune, 9/17/88

“Dukakis Defends Against Attacks On Record”-Washington Post, 9/21/88

“Bush Forced to Retract Statement Against Senator Glenn; Accused Him of Not Being A Patriot”-New York Times, 9/23/88

“Bush, Dukakis Spar on Domestic Politics!”-Chicago Tribune, 9/27/88

“Polls Tighten With Dukakis Leading Bush 48-46”-Los Angeles Times, 9/30/88

“Attention Focused On Upcoming Vice Presidential Debate”-Columbus Dispatch, 10/5/88

“Quayle and Glenn Spar On Experience and Qualifications”-New York Times, 10/6/88

“ATWATER OUT OF BUSH CAMPAIGN”-New York Times, 10/10/88

“It's being reported that Atwater's firing from the Bush campaign is in part because of his insistence on attacks against Senator Glenn and rumors spread about his wife (if not used as attack ads). In addition to it, while the furor over the debates was not directly accredited to him, it is the belief that he is the one who insisted on only having a single debate (having been supported by Roger Ailes in it). Time will tell on what effect this will have on the Bush campaign.”-Boston Globe, 10/10/88

“Dukakis Holds Tight Lead Over Bush, 48-47”-Chicago Tribune, 10/13/88

“... Vice President Bush was shot down in combat, and there is no one braver than the Vice President for any of the Democrats, and it is preposterous to consider any of the Democrats as being brave.”
“I'll tell you what, Dan. I flew more than ninety missions over Korea, I flew as a test pilot, and yes I'm a Democrat. A love of country doesn't have to do with party. When you understand the self-sacrifice that some men have made, the sacrifice that my friends now buried in Arlington have made, then we can talk about bravery.”-Dan Quayle and John Glenn remarks in the second vice presidential debate, 10/17/88

“Quayle and Glenn Spar Heavily Again; Glenn Strikes Back Against Accusation of Quayle's Refusal 'To Consider Any of the Democrats As Being Brave'”-New York Times, 10/18/88

“Senator Glenn Strikes Back Against Remarks By Senator Quayle In Debate”-Columbus Dispatch, 10/18/88

“Dukakis Lead Over Bush Remains Constant, Elevated By Quayle Remarks”-Washington Post, 10/20/88

“Democrats Air Ad Using Quayle's Remarks; Features Senators Bentsen and Melcher”-New York Times, 10/22/88

“Dukakis Attacks Bush For Iran-Contra In Last Debate”-Washington Post, 10/27/88

“Dukakis Leads Bush, 49-46”-Los Angeles Times, 10/31/88

“Bush Campaign Rolls Out Attacks And Campaigning In Last Week”-New York Times, 11/1/88

“Glenn Accuses Bush Of Playing Part In Iran-Contra”-Columbus Dispatch, 11/4/88

“Polls Tighten To 49-47; Dukakis Campaigns Along West Coast”-New York Times, 11/6/88


“And we are finally able to call Ohio in! We can call Ohio in for Governor Dukakis, and in turn call the election for him! Governor Dukakis will be the 41st President of the United States!”

I2bz30B.png
 

Zioneer

Banned
"It might be nice, it might be niiiiice to have Dukakis on your side"

But seriously, excellent opening to the TL.
 
Preface

“DUKAKIS PICKS SENATOR GLENN OF OHIO, FORMER ASTRONAUT, FOR NO. 2 SPOT”-New York Times, 7/13/88

“... The announcement of Senator John Glenn came as no short surprise, with speculation having considered the Senator as one of the finalists. His moderate positions are arguably in line with that of the party as a whole, and helps to keep the Governor's support among the moderates in the Democratic Party. In addition, his support from the Jackson camp (aided in no small part by campaign manager Gerald Austin) should help to keep the party unified heading into that the convention. Of concern however should be noted his outstanding $2.4 million dollar debt from the 1984 presidential campaign...”-Washington Post, 7/13/88

“The Dukakis Administration shall secure two things first and foremost! The first will be an agreement in order to curtail the arsenals of both the United States and Soviet Union and second of all will be to maintain nuclear non-proliferation and do all efforts available under the United States!”-John Glenn Nomination Speech, 7/20/88

“And my friends, if anyone tells you that the American dream belongs to the privileged few and not to all of us, you tell them that the Reagan era is over, you tell them that the Reagan era is over and that a new era is about to begin.”-Michael S. Dukakis Nomination Speech, 7/21/88

“Dukakis Rehires Sasso For Post; Left After Ending Biden Rise”-Los Angeles Times, 7/27/88

“Rumors coming out of the Dukakis Campaign today is that the hiring of John Sasso is in part a reconciliation between the Governor and his former chief of staff ahead of the presidential election. The role Sasso will play in the Dukakis campaign is not clear, and is expected to suffer clashing roles with the campaign manager, Susan Estrich.”-New York Times, 7/27/88

“BUSH CHOOSES SENATOR QUAYLE OF INDIANA, A 41-YEAR OLD CONSERVATIVE, FOR NO. 2 SPOT”-New York Times, 8/17/88

“Dukakis Barely Leading Bush, 47-45, In Gallup Poll”-Los Angeles Times, 8/23/88

“Senator Glenn Defends Running Mate In Attacks on Military Record”-Cincinnati Enquirer, 8/23/88

“Discussion on Debates Breaks Down!”-Boston Globe, 8/31/88

“The reports of the private discussions between both the Bush and Dukakis campaign have reportedly broken down over both the number of debates to be held and that of the structure of the debates. The Bush campaign has remained committed to holding a single debate for the election while the Dukakis campaign has been amenable to hosting three debates. In addition, the Bush campaign has remained committed to hosting the discussion of both domestic politics and foreign relations in it, while the Dukakis campaign has urged them to be kept safe. Whether any debates will actually be held for this election will remain to see...”-Chicago Tribune, 8/31/88

“Senator Glenn Defends Against Attacks On Record and Attacks on Running Mate”-Houston Chronicle, 9/8/88

“No Debates To Be Held This Year; Bush Campaign Refuses to Compromise”-Washington Post, 9/10/88

“The Bush campaign as reported by sources within both campaigns had continually refused to budge from the request of a single debate between Vice President Bush and Governor Dukakis and held with both a mixture of domestic policy and foreign policy. The Dukakis campaign had by the final point prior to the 'shutdown' of negotiations on it, had brought it down to a total of two debates to be held, with one on domestic policy and the other on foreign policy, but the Bush campaign had remained with their intent on a single debate.”-New York Times, 9/10/88

“Glenn Attacks Bush In Speech Over Refusal To Hold Debates”-Chicago Tribune, 9/12/88

“If the Vice President of the United States, and someone currently campaigning for the President of the United States is refusing to debate his opponent in front of the nation, what does it say for when he will represent us on the worldwide stage, especially against the Soviet Union?”-John Glenn Speaking In Denver, Colorado on 9/11/88

“Dukakis Leads Bush 49-44 In New Poll”-New York Times, 9/15/88

“The refusal by Vice President Bush to debate Governor Dukakis has affected polling sharply, with polling from the 10th through 13th showing a significant drop in support as compared to before, and can put forth a concerning trend for the Vice President in his race for the White House...”-Washington Post, 9/15/88

“Bush Agrees to Debates With Dukakis!”-Los Angeles Times, 9/17/88

“The Bush campaign has finally agreed to that to hold a series of debates with the Dukakis campaign, featuring two presidential debates, with one having the focus on domestic policy and the other having the focus on foreign policy. However what was apparently something conceded by the Dukakis campaign was to host a pair of vice presidential debates between Senator Glenn and Quayle, rather than the normal one...”-Chicago Tribune, 9/17/88

“Dukakis Defends Against Attacks On Record”-Washington Post, 9/21/88

“Bush Forced to Retract Statement Against Senator Glenn; Accused Him of Not Being A Patriot”-New York Times, 9/23/88

“Bush, Dukakis Spar on Domestic Politics!”-Chicago Tribune, 9/27/88

“Polls Tighten With Dukakis Leading Bush 48-46”-Los Angeles Times, 9/30/88

“Attention Focused On Upcoming Vice Presidential Debate”-Columbus Dispatch, 10/5/88

“Quayle and Glenn Spar On Experience and Qualifications”-New York Times, 10/6/88

“ATWATER OUT OF BUSH CAMPAIGN”-New York Times, 10/10/88

“It's being reported that Atwater's firing from the Bush campaign is in part because of his insistence on attacks against Senator Glenn and rumors spread about his wife (if not used as attack ads). In addition to it, while the furor over the debates was not directly accredited to him, it is the belief that he is the one who insisted on only having a single debate (having been supported by Roger Ailes in it). Time will tell on what effect this will have on the Bush campaign.”-Boston Globe, 10/10/88

“Dukakis Holds Tight Lead Over Bush, 48-47”-Chicago Tribune, 10/13/88

“... Vice President Bush was shot down in combat, and there is no one braver than the Vice President for any of the Democrats, and it is preposterous to consider any of the Democrats as being brave.”
“I'll tell you what, Dan. I flew more than ninety missions over Korea, I flew as a test pilot, and yes I'm a Democrat. A love of country doesn't have to do with party. When you understand the self-sacrifice that some men have made, the sacrifice that my friends now buried in Arlington have made, then we can talk about bravery.”-Dan Quayle and John Glenn remarks in the second vice presidential debate, 10/17/88

“Quayle and Glenn Spar Heavily Again; Glenn Strikes Back Against Accusation of Quayle's Refusal 'To Consider Any of the Democrats As Being Brave'”-New York Times, 10/18/88

“Senator Glenn Strikes Back Against Remarks By Senator Quayle In Debate”-Columbus Dispatch, 10/18/88

“Dukakis Lead Over Bush Remains Constant, Elevated By Quayle Remarks”-Washington Post, 10/20/88

“Democrats Air Ad Using Quayle's Remarks; Features Senators Bentsen and Melcher”-New York Times, 10/22/88

“Dukakis Attacks Bush For Iran-Contra In Last Debate”-Washington Post, 10/27/88

“Dukakis Leads Bush, 49-46”-Los Angeles Times, 10/31/88

“Bush Campaign Rolls Out Attacks And Campaigning In Last Week”-New York Times, 11/1/88

“Glenn Accuses Bush Of Playing Part In Iran-Contra”-Columbus Dispatch, 11/4/88

“Polls Tighten To 49-47; Dukakis Campaigns Along West Coast”-New York Times, 11/6/88


“And we are finally able to call Ohio in! We can call Ohio in for Governor Dukakis, and in turn call the election for him! Governor Dukakis will be the 41st President of the United States!”

I2bz30B.png

Are your PODs Glenn being the Vice-Presidental nominee & Bush firing Atwater?
Problem is, there was no way- unless you're
changing HW in this ATL from what he was
IOTL- for the latter to happen. In 1988 HW wanted to win & he was perfectly willing to employ
whatever methods that would work. As the
late NYT columnist William Safire, a conservative, noted that year, HW had dis-
covered being a nice guy didn't win you
elections; he had acquired something
Dukakis didn't have: a killer instinct. So
he would have kept Atwater & he would
have, as he'd did IOTL, ran the infamous
Willie Horton ad that had a DEVASTATING
impact.

Second, Dukakis' actual VP nominee IOTL,
Lloyd Bentsen, actually became well-regarded(in the Veep debate in 1988 with
Quayle he CRUSHED Dan with a line saying
he knew JFK & you didn't). But VP nominees,
no matter how good, can only do so much. In addition to having to fight Atwater's
devishly effective campaign, Dukakis was a
poor, uninspiring campaigner who just could
not connect with people(remember that
dreadful ad of him in a tank?) I say all this,
by the way, as someone who in 1988 gen-
erally agreed with Dukakis & voted for him.
But a Dukakis presidency was just not in
the cards.
 
Last edited:
Are you PODs Glenn being the Vice-Presidental nominee & Bush firing Atwater?
Problem is, there was no way- unless you're
changing HW in this ATL from what he was
IOTL- for the latter to happen. In 1988 HW wanted to win & he was perfectly willing to employ
whatever methods that would work. As the
late NYT columnist William Safire, a conservative, noted that year, HW had dis-
covered being a nice guy didn't win you
elections; he had acquired something
Dukakis didn't have: a killer instinct. So
he would have kept Atwater & he would
have, as he'd did IOTL, ran the infamous
Willie Horton ad that had a DEVASTATING
impact.

Second, Dukakis' actual VP nominee IOTL,
Lloyd Bentsen, actually became well-regarded(in the Veep debate in 1988 with
Quayle he CRUSHED Dan with a line saying
he knew JFK & you didn't). But VP nominees,
no matter how good, can only do so much. In addition to having to fight Atwater's
devishly effective campaign, Dukakis was a
poor, uninspiring campaigner who just could
not connect with people(remember that
dreadful ad of him in a tank?) I say all this,
by the way, as someone who in 1988 gen-
erally agreed with Dukakis & voted for him.
But a Dukakis presidency was just not in
the cards.
Knowing @Usili and his TLs, his POD is most likely before the 88 campaign season.
 
A different take on what is going on. I wonder what the POD here is.

Are your PODs Glenn being the Vice-Presidental nominee & Bush firing Atwater?
Problem is, there was no way- unless you're
changing HW in this ATL from what he was
IOTL- for the latter to happen. In 1988 HW wanted to win & he was perfectly willing to employ
whatever methods that would work. As the
late NYT columnist William Safire, a conservative, noted that year, HW had dis-
covered being a nice guy didn't win you
elections; he had acquired something
Dukakis didn't have: a killer instinct. So
he would have kept Atwater & he would
have, as he'd did IOTL, ran the infamous
Willie Horton ad that had a DEVASTATING
impact.

Second, Dukakis' actual VP nominee IOTL,
Lloyd Bentsen, actually became well-regarded(in the Veep debate in 1988 with
Quayle he CRUSHED Dan with a line saying
he knew JFK & you didn't). But VP nominees,
no matter how good, can only do so much. In addition to having to fight Atwater's
devishly effective campaign, Dukakis was a
poor, uninspiring campaigner who just could
not connect with people(remember that
dreadful ad of him in a tank?) I say all this,
by the way, as someone who in 1988 gen-
erally agreed with Dukakis & voted for him.
But a Dukakis presidency was just not in
the cards.

Knowing @Usili and his TLs, his POD is most likely before the 88 campaign season.

The main POD could really be argued as that of the choice of Senator John Glenn over that of Senator Lloyd Bentsen as Governor Michael Dukakis' vice presidential choice. It could also be acknowledged as that of the choice to bring John Sasso back on just after the Democratic National Convention. Glenn it could be said was that of the perfect 'counter' to that of Dukakis to help with his weak points (principally on foreign policy and national security).

But there's also the fact over the course of the election and how it can shape it, as I see it. For example, George H.W. Bush heavily disliked debates and from articles published at the time (from what I read in research for this) constantly was trying to not debate during the Republican primaries and also to limit that of the debates in the general election. Imagine though for a second that if the Dukakis campaign views themselves in a stronger position, and it winds up 'breaking down', and its viewed that the blame of it is on the Bush campaign for 'refusing to debate'. I'd imagine that would present a major negative impact at the time against Vice President Bush in running against Governor Dukakis. It could also be said that the Dukakis campaign would have a stronger series of messaging that could be easily identified as 'pro-Dukakis', rather than those that seemed more 'wish-washy' IOTL because of such differences. But I would imagine there would be that of a potential limit for the then Vice President Bush in terms of what Atwater would do, especially in attacking what was arguably considered as that of an 'American hero'. Maybe I'm being a bit more optimistic in how it could've been, but again alternate history is the matter of what could have been (within reason) and I think that a Dukakis win in 1988 was in the cards if the campaign had gone worse for the Bush campaign, with some events in turn likely shifting how it might've played out either in that of the general election or prior to that (like for example, that of Black Monday in 1987 turning into a recession, or Iran-Contra being a much more serious investigation which would've seriously impacted Vice President Bush as a result of it and shifting voters opinion of him, and thus netting a Democrat to win in 1988).
 

James G

Gone Fishin'
Hopefully Lee Atwater got his brain cancer earlier than OTL.

No matter what his politics, and I don't think he did nice things politically, that's a horrible thing to say. What an earth is wrong with you? Wishing cancer on someone is really a cunty thing to do.
 
“... Vice President Bush was shot down in combat, and there is no one braver than the Vice President for any of the Democrats, and it is preposterous to consider any of the Democrats as being brave.”
“I'll tell you what, Dan. I flew more than ninety missions over Korea, I flew as a test pilot, and yes I'm a Democrat. A love of country doesn't have to do with party. When you understand the self-sacrifice that some men have made, the sacrifice that my friends now buried in Arlington have made, then we can talk about bravery.”-Dan Quayle and John Glenn remarks in the second vice presidential debate, 10/17/88

“Quayle and Glenn Spar Heavily Again; Glenn Strikes Back Against Accusation of Quayle's Refusal 'To Consider Any of the Democrats As Being Brave'”-New York Times, 10/18/88

“Senator Glenn Strikes Back Against Remarks By Senator Quayle In Debate”-Columbus Dispatch, 10/18/88

I'll admit, this isn't as catchy as "you're no Jack Kennedy", but it is a fitting allusion to the OTL debate: Quayle's disrespectful gaffes, with a senior, seasoned politician putting him in his place. I wonder why Glenn didn't needle Quayle for not going to Vietnam himself.
 
I hate Lee Atwater. That being said, I would never wish cancer on anyone, given how painful and devastating it is to the cancer victim (and their family).

A few years ago, an author named Michael Alan wrote a book entitled I Wish My Kids Had Cancer: A Family Surviving the Autism Epidemic (no, really, that's the title). First, as someone who has autism myself, that's offensive. And, second, well, I'll let this writer explain why you shouldn't wish your kids had cancer:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jona...ncer_b_5447445.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

To paraphrase the writer of that article, @Archibald, do you still hope Mr. Atwater gets cancer?
 
A few years ago, an author named Michael Alan wrote a book entitled I Wish My Kids Had Cancer: A Family Surviving the Autism Epidemic (no, really, that's the title). First, as someone who has autism myself, that's offensive. And, second, well, I'll let this writer explain why you shouldn't wish your kids had cancer:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/jona...ncer_b_5447445.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

To paraphrase the writer of that article, @Archibald, do you still hope Mr. Atwater gets cancer?

Wow, this is actually a thing.

https://www.amazon.com/Wish-Kids-Ha...606720708/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8

My father's just been diag'd with cancer. Cancer also killed his father, my grandfather. wishing fatal cancer on someone, just because they are a political enemy, is really shitty.

Really hope your father makes a swift recovery natalieb. All the best.
 
I'll admit, this isn't as catchy as "you're no Jack Kennedy", but it is a fitting allusion to the OTL debate: Quayle's disrespectful gaffes, with a senior, seasoned politician putting him in his place. I wonder why Glenn didn't needle Quayle for not going to Vietnam himself.

I viewed it as probably that of John Glenn not necessarily thinking to needle him on it, when focusing explicitly on that of the last part of the statement in terms of a response and direct attack against Senator Quayle.

My father's just been diag'd with cancer. Cancer also killed his father, my grandfather. wishing fatal cancer on someone, just because they are a political enemy, is really shitty.
My sympathies natalieb, and I hope he kicks the ass out of it.
 
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