No Hungarians in Pannonia?

[Mohatma]

What if they get kicked out, try to gain other lands or just don't migrate at all? I wonder what could happen to Pannonia, Transylvania, Great Moravian state (and whole Central Europe) if Hungarians don't arrive there. The butterflies would be enormous I guess

 

[Valdemar II]

What if they get kicked out, try to gain other lands or just don't migrate at all? I wonder what could happen to Pannonia, Transylvania, Great Moravian state (and whole Central Europe) if Hungarians don't arrive there. The butterflies would be enormous I guess

Most of it would be taken over by Bavarian settlers, through we would likely see a strong "Slovakian" presence in the east. So likely it would become part of Germany.

 

[Susano]

It were the Magyars who hgave the Karantanian marches the final death blow, wasnt it? Though they had degenrated before already... Still, those were German marches, and like in the East Elbian lands they would most likely steadily have been expanded over at least West Pannonia, with some luck on their part over all of Pannonia - including, as in teh East Elbian lands, German settlement. Just that yes, those settlers would be Bavarian instead of Saxon and Thuringian in the East Elbian lands...

Maybe Great Moravia can win East Pannonia, maybe not (I dont think tehy could attack Bavaria directly to gain West Pannonian lands). Or maybe also the Avars make a comeback and retain East Pannonia. Or as said it also becomes German, or its split between Avars and Moravians... lots of possibilities...

 

[rcduggan]

IIRC most of Pannonia was part of Bulgaria until it was conquered by the Magyars. There were various Slavic and Vlach governors who served in Bulgarian provinces north of the Danube, but at the moment I can't recall their names. So it is likely ITTL that much of the territory would remain part of Bulgaria, although the land west of the Danube would become Bavarian.

EDIT: from my notes: "The Hungarian destruction of a Bavarian army in 907 lead to the devastation of Bavaria and forced Louis the Child to go into seclusion. This lead to Bavaria becoming focused on local well-being and survival superceding national interest."