WNT is the victors carving up the world as they see fit. No way that would happen in a grumpy no winners scenario.
Put another way. Would Germany accept restrictions on its army?
They can't do this. Ar best, they can cannibalize French and Italian Navies,but that's it. Germany that won circa August 1918 as a result of successful offensives, would really not be able to force Britain to something else than Status-quo Ante Bellum everywhere, and de-facto situation on Turkish front.Does anyone know if Germany will try to make the UK cede a part of its navy? IIRC, wasn't one of Germany's goals in a CP victory scenario to "level the playing field" with the UK?
A European hegemonic Germany would want or expect nothing less than equality with the RN so there would be no treaty as this is unacceptable to GB. Germany will be starting from a low base as any 12" gunned capital ship is now 2nd rate and Germany only has 2 15" gunned ships and 2 more building.
The Washington Conference was about defusing tension over China. It left GB with a margin over the combined European Fleets of 5:3.5 which is similar to the RN:HSF proportion in 1914 of 8 battle squadrons to 5 battle squadrons.
The German 12" was 50tons vs 75tons for the 13.5". The Germans put the weight saving into armour and underwater subdivision. The German 12" shell was 900lb vs the 13.5" 1,250lb to 1,400lb. German 12" gunned ships were simply under gunned as WW1 experience showed, a problem that is going to be exacerbated as future ships grow in size.IIUC due to the different construction techniques and therefore gun design philosophy the German 12" is more akin to the British 13.5" than the British 12", which is more closely matched to the German 11" gun.
Theres a belief going around that this is the case. Most people consider it erroneous.IIUC due to the different construction techniques and therefore gun design philosophy the German 12" is more akin to the British 13.5" than the British 12", which is more closely matched to the German 11" gun.
The South Dakota's are the most likely having been ordered in 1916 before the others were a glimmer in their designers eyes, the #13's will have to be laid down after the earthquake, so them getting cancelled is highly likely, Kii's are a toss up, 2-4 Amagi's are almost certainly built (without the WNT Amagi is off the stocks so won't be wrecked in the quake). The G3's could happen, or the treasury could force a cheaper design be chosen given the British financial situation is almost certainly worse than OTL, and AFAIK the Treasury said OTL the RN wasn't getting all 4 G3's even if the WNT failed totallyOk. so most likely no treaty, which means we'll be seeing the G3's, South Dakota's and No.13 Battleships, correct?
Will they?A European hegemonic Germany would want or expect nothing less than equality with the RN so there would be no treaty as this is unacceptable to GB. Germany will be starting from a low base as any 12" gunned capital ship is now 2nd rate and Germany only has 2 15" gunned ships and 2 more building.
The Washington Conference was about defusing tension over China. It left GB with a margin over the combined European Fleets of 5:3.5 which is similar to the RN:HSF proportion in 1914 of 8 battle squadrons to 5 battle squadrons.
Theres a belief going around that this is the case. Most people consider it erroneous.
It's generally based on one of three factors.
1. Comparisons between penetration values of german armour piercing shells and british armour piercing shells without an armour piercing cap. Both datasets are together on some sites and forums.
2. The British 12 inch 45s on some of the first dreadnoughts. The later 12 inch 50s on later dreadnoughts were a much better guns. I could consider some sort of equivalency between 12 inch 45s and the German 11 inch guns. I would not consider equivalency between the German 11 inch guns and the 12 inch 50s.
3. I will certainly say that the Germans had much better shells until the introduction of the greenboy shells late in the war and can consider their smaller guns comparable with larger British guns because of the greater likelihood that their shells will work as designed.
The German 12" was 50tons vs 75tons for the 13.5". The Germans put the weight saving into armour and underwater subdivision. The German 12" shell was 900lb vs the 13.5" 1,250lb to 1,400lb. German 12" gunned ships were simply under gunned as WW1 experience showed, a problem that is going to be exacerbated as future ships grow in size.
A Central Powers victory is likely to see the French Navy destroyed, which chucks this equation right out the window.I don't think a prospective treaty would survive negotistions with the Mediterranean situation in mind. France wants to be the biggest naval power there, Italy has ambitions as well and A-H will want at the very least the same as Italy has, which is something Italy can't live with because all that A-H tonnage is concentrated in a small pond while Italy has colonial duties and a second great power navy to its left to watch out for, it would mean ceding half the peninsula to a foreign navy, they'd never sign up for that.
The French navy is the least important issue for a victorious Central Powers, and there's the question of just how much they're willing to cram into the treaty and then watch out for it to be kept enforced. France being beaten but the UK remaining and the whole thing ending by agreement is not quite as total a victory as the other way around was, so imo this would be reflected in the peace treaty.A Central Powers victory is likely to see the French Navy destroyed, which chucks this equation right out the window.