Nantucket Series...what happens after?

[Eckener]

I recently finished re-reading (or more accurately, re-listening to the audiobook version) of the Island on the Sea of Time/ Nantucket series. I generally enjoy the overall story and worldbuilding that Stirling does in the series (though at times I feel he bogs down in details).

I was wondering if anyone had ever speculated or written any TLs about what happens in the decades/centuries after the series ends? It only covers the first 11-12 years of what happens to the Nantucketers after the Event.

Curious about what would happen to the major characters (and their descendants), and about the broader impact of the Republic of Nantucket.
- Alston-Kurlelos: [head of the Coast Guard/ Councilor of Defense] What other adventures do the Commodore and her wife get up to (by the end of the series, they're near 50 and 30, respectively). And then of course their three adopted children.
- The Coughlins: [Chief Executive Officer and the secretary of the Council] Jarred and Martha are about the same age as the Commodore. And they had several children by birth and adoption.
- The Arnstiens: [Councilors of Foreign Affairs] Ian and Doreen, and their children.
- Kathryn Hollard: marries the King of Babylon
- Peter Giernas: [Ranger, first Nantucketer expedition across North America]. Has two wives, children, was moving to the new colony/outport being set up in Argentina.

- Tartessos: Set to be the major power in the western Med, even with the defeat during the War against Walker. The King's children are getting a Nantucketter education, so the Kingdom's development is likely a foregone conclusion. Will their relationship with the Islanders improve to the level of ally, or will there be another conflict?
- Babylon: Between the marriage and general close relationship, Nantucket and Babylon are set to be close for some time to come, despite major cultural differences.
- Greater Greece: Odysseus was made king after Walker and most of his court was killed, and it was made clear that the kingdom had not been defeated. With the "new learning" introduced with Walker, plus the positive relationship Ian Arnstein established with Odysseus, Greece will likely dominate the eastern Med.
- Alba: More of an Islander dependency for the immediate decades after the series, but set to be a major player in northern Europe, likely with a weird blend of Islander, Earth People, and Sun People cultural blends.

Long-term development of the Republic:
- The constitution they established allowed for growth, at a point with the Town Meeting would no longer be the deciding legislative body for the entire republic, replaced by the House of Delegates.
- Nantucket Town would remain the capital and center for a while, but at some point, the outports would eventually overshadow the original "home island." Would Nantucket remain the capital in 150, 200 years? For that matter, would the name "Republic of Nantuckett" stick?
- With the continued influx of immigration from Alba, along with likely increases from Tartessos, Babylon, and even Greece, not to mention native tribes, what happens to the culture of the republic in the next few decades? Already we were seeing thoughts on "traditional" marriages shift (polyamorous marriages, same-sex marriages, etc). Religious influences abound as well.
- How long before the Event (and the world the Islanders left behind) drifts solidly into myth? Or can it be made a solid enough part of the Republic's identity (through education and what not) that it remains a "fact" for generations?

I have more thoughts, but wanted to get these down for now, and wanted to see what thoughts other people had about the series.

 

[David bar Elias]

Thoughts/speculations:

-The Republic of Nantucket will remain the world’s superpower, in terms of global reach and technological development, for some time yet. After the end of the Walker War, the focus on Nantucket’s part will likely be enforcing the peace - at least against Tartessos and Meizon Achaea. But the Chief who succeeds Cofflin may have other areas of interest, in other parts of the world.

-Nantucket will continue to expand throughout the Western Hemisphere, southern Africa, and Oceania, with Outports and Coast Guard bases established wherever a key harbor or key trade node exists. Indigenous groups will be cultivated first as trading partners and then assimilated, though likely not without some conflict, depending on the place and circumstances.

Nantucket’s major weakness will remain numbers. Even with a universal immigration policy, it’s likely that the Republic’s territorial goals will outpace the Republic’s actual population.

-Alba will remain a major center of Republic immigration, but I can’t help but wonder what Nantucket’s long-term policies there will be. Given that Alba has the potential to grow into a major commercial, industrial, and perhaps naval rival to the Republic in the long term, might a future Chief of Nantucket attempt to bring about a political merger between the two realms? The Fiernan Bohulugi might not be opposed, as long as they’re left alone, while the Sun People may be more likely to oppose such a move - but are also likely, by a certain point, to be far more acculturated to Nantucket in terms of having a shared religion and culture.

-I’m also curious how Nantucket develops politically over the long term. While the Republic seems intent on continuing its town hall tradition on a massive scale, a factor perhaps overseen by Cofflin and the first post-ISOT generation is the emergence of powerful commercial and familial factions as the Republic grows in territorial size and economic power. The Cofflins, Arnsteins, Alston-Kurlelos, Hollards, ect. may be joined over the centuries by those who successfully monopolize trade/strike it rich, and decide thereafter to enter into politics. Of course, some of these new members of Nantucket’s political aristocracy may have a mindset more like the Carsons (if I remember correctly, the couple who were breaking the law in selling illicit goods to the Native Americans).

-As for the original ISOT, I suspect that it will evolve into Nantucket’s founding myth. However, too much has been written down from before the ISOT for the Event to ever be dismissed entirely as a myth. Photos and video footage are also likely to be passed down as proof of what happened.

-Nantucket’s relations with Babylon will likely remain cordial in the near term, especially with an Islander marrying into the ruling dynasty. But relations could go in any number of ways as the centuries progress. What happens, for example, if, say, a future Babylonian ruler decides to begin an aggressive naval building program to break Nantucket’s monopoly over trade with the Far East? What happens if a new ruler comes to power one day who despises foreign influence and seeks a return to an imagined past? That is, where Babylon could have easily destroyed the Assyrian threat on their own without foreign help, before the dynasty’s prerogatives were challenged by foreign parliamentary notions?

-Meizon Achaea will become one of the world’s great powers and one of the world’s most powerful empires, though, like Babylon and the Hittites, they will be a tiger to Nantucket’s shark. In the near term, Odikweos will focus on solidifying his family’s power, purging Achaea of anything related to Alice Hong or Helmut Mittler, and of expanding into East Central Europe. It’s up in the air if the cruelty and violence at the heart of Walker’s reign will be ascribed over the long term to Hong and Mittler. The other former Americans in Achaea will assimilate into the empire.

-A while ago, another poster made the argument that the Ferghana Valley was a terrible long-term choice for Althea Walker and her followers to use as a base, due to its status in world history as a major overland trade/traveling route. This poster also argued that if the Babylonians and Hittites get word of surviving Walkerites setting up shop in Central Asia, both empires may decide to launch a putative expedition. After all, at the end of the series, the rulers of both empires were already discussing mutual expansion to preempt the Persians/Medes.

A near future wildcard is Vicki Cofflin, who I believe has crash landed not terribly far from where Althea and her followers are heading. She’s fallen in with local Indo-Europeans. Does she also significantly set back the House of the Wolf?

-I believe that Stirling has said that George McAndrews succeeds in his own kingdom-building project, which means that by the time Nantucker or Achaean or Babylonian explorers/traders start to take a greater interest in East Africa, there could be a large empire in what would have been Ethiopia/Sudan. While McAndrews’ successors may have some mutual interests with Nantucket (such as opposition to slavery), conflict may still occur, especially if McAndrews passes on an ideological message to his heirs and followers that mandates claiming all of Africa.

-Tartessos will not be trusted by Nantucket for a long time to come. In the near future Tartessos will be somewhat hemmed in by both Nantucket and Nantucketer allies in North Africa and northern Spain. Whether or not this leads to future major wars between the Island and Tartessos is anyone’s guess. But at the very least, Tartessos will not be forgotten in this world.

 

[Eckener]

Thoughts/speculations:

-The Republic of Nantucket will remain the world’s superpower, in terms of global reach and technological development, for some time yet. After the end of the Walker War, the focus on Nantucket’s part will likely be enforcing the peace - at least against Tartessos and Meizon Achaea. But the Chief who succeeds Cofflin may have other areas of interest, in other parts of the world.

-Nantucket will continue to expand throughout the Western Hemisphere, southern Africa, and Oceania, with Outports and Coast Guard bases established wherever a key harbor or key trade node exists. Indigenous groups will be cultivated first as trading partners and then assimilated, though likely not without some conflict, depending on the place and circumstances.

Nantucket’s major weakness will remain numbers. Even with a universal immigration policy, it’s likely that the Republic’s territorial goals will outpace the Republic’s actual population.

Agreed in full, though with a high birthrate among both Island-born and immigrants, they will see a steady increase in population. But as you said, their territorial goals will outpace even that high growth.

-Alba will remain a major center of Republic immigration, but I can’t help but wonder what Nantucket’s long-term policies there will be. Given that Alba has the potential to grow into a major commercial, industrial, and perhaps naval rival to the Republic in the long term, might a future Chief of Nantucket attempt to bring about a political merger between the two realms? The Fiernan Bohulugi might not be opposed, as long as they’re left alone, while the Sun People may be more likely to oppose such a move - but are also likely, by a certain point, to be far more acculturated to Nantucket in terms of having a shared religion and culture.

That's an interesting thought. There are at least two settlements that are essentially Island-controlled by the end of the series as is. That influence would likely expand, creating a unique hybrid culture that isn't exactly Islander, but is also not Fiernan Bohulugi or Sun People. I also agree that if such a merger were to occur, the Fiernans would be more likely to be unphased by it compared to the Sun People, even if the latter would be more comptabile than the former, culturally speaking. It also sounds like the Nantucketer Ecuminical Church was growing popular among the Sun People, so it could be that within a few generations the veneration of Sky Father will have died out. It's hard for me to see the Republic allowing Alba to grow into a rival.

-I’m also curious how Nantucket develops politically over the long term. While the Republic seems intent on continuing its town hall tradition on a massive scale, a factor perhaps overseen by Cofflin and the first post-ISOT generation is the emergence of powerful commercial and familial factions as the Republic grows in territorial size and economic power. The Cofflins, Arnsteins, Alston-Kurlelos, Hollards, ect. may be joined over the centuries by those who successfully monopolize trade/strike it rich, and decide thereafter to enter into politics. Of course, some of these new members of Nantucket’s political aristocracy may have a mindset more like the Carsons (if I remember correctly, the couple who were breaking the law in selling illicit goods to the Native Americans).

There is definitely a possibility for the development of pseudo-dynastic struggles between the leading families in the decades to come, especially after the Event generation pass on.

It will also be interesting to see how long the founders' outlook towards environmentalism survives. Will it be instilled strongly enough that future generations take it for granted, or will it be challenged by their children or grandchildren, with the thought of short-term profits and gains outweighing the long-term impacts?

-As for the original ISOT, I suspect that it will evolve into Nantucket’s founding myth. However, too much has been written down from before the ISOT for the Event to ever be dismissed entirely as a myth. Photos and video footage are also likely to be passed down as proof of what happened.

This tended to by my thought on this too. Yes, it will seem too hard to believe as "real" for many, but it can't just be waved off as fiction, with the likely amount of documentation and evidence.

-Nantucket’s relations with Babylon will likely remain cordial in the near term, especially with an Islander marrying into the ruling dynasty. But relations could go in any number of ways as the centuries progress. What happens, for example, if, say, a future Babylonian ruler decides to begin an aggressive naval building program to break Nantucket’s monopoly over trade with the Far East? What happens if a new ruler comes to power one day who despises foreign influence and seeks a return to an imagined past? That is, where Babylon could have easily destroyed the Assyrian threat on their own without foreign help, before the dynasty’s prerogatives were challenged by foreign parliamentary notions?

-Meizon Achaea will become one of the world’s great powers and one of the world’s most powerful empires, though, like Babylon and the Hittites, they will be a tiger to Nantucket’s shark. In the near term, Odikweos will focus on solidifying his family’s power, purging Achaea of anything related to Alice Hong or Helmut Mittler, and of expanding into East Central Europe. It’s up in the air if the cruelty and violence at the heart of Walker’s reign will be ascribed over the long term to Hong and Mittler. The other former Americans in Achaea will assimilate into the empire.

Your thoughts on how Babylon might in the future break with Nantucket seems quite plausible, if unfortunate. Will just depend on how thoroughly Babylonians acculturate, and how strong they remain. I could see the Islanders giving the Far East as Babylon's "natural sphere of influence," so as to avoid a future power struggle in the region with them.

I tend to think that the worst of the cruelty and violence from Walker's reign died with him, though there's no denying that they've made a long-lasting mark on Achaean society, even with a thorough "De-Walker-ization" program likely to be taken by Odikweos.

-A while ago, another poster made the argument that the Ferghana Valley was a terrible long-term choice for Althea Walker and her followers to use as a base, due to its status in world history as a major overland trade/traveling route. This poster also argued that if the Babylonians and Hittites get word of surviving Walkerites setting up shop in Central Asia, both empires may decide to launch a putative expedition. After all, at the end of the series, the rulers of both empires were already discussing mutual expansion to preempt the Persians/Medes.

A near future wildcard is Vicki Cofflin, who I believe has crash landed not terribly far from where Althea and her followers are heading. She’s fallen in with local Indo-Europeans. Does she also significantly set back the House of the Wolf?

-I believe that Stirling has said that George McAndrews succeeds in his own kingdom-building project, which means that by the time Nantucker or Achaean or Babylonian explorers/traders start to take a greater interest in East Africa, there could be a large empire in what would have been Ethiopia/Sudan. While McAndrews’ successors may have some mutual interests with Nantucket (such as opposition to slavery), conflict may still occur, especially if McAndrews passes on an ideological message to his heirs and followers that mandates claiming all of Africa.

-Tartessos will not be trusted by Nantucket for a long time to come. In the near future Tartessos will be somewhat hemmed in by both Nantucket and Nantucketer allies in North Africa and northern Spain. Whether or not this leads to future major wars between the Island and Tartessos is anyone’s guess. But at the very least, Tartessos will not be forgotten in this world.

I didn't realize that about the Ferghana Valley. And yeah that wouldn't necessarily make for the best place to regroup and build a new base. I always debated whether or not she would really be able to make a come back to avenge her father or not...personally I'd hope not, as that would be too repetitive of a story.

Also interesting, as I hadn't put together that Cofflin had crash-landed close to Althea's location.

I also missed that about McAndrews. I could see his new African state being less openly hostile to Nantucket, but likely standoffish. McAndrews wasn't exactly Walker-level crazy, just naive and foolish.

And no, Tartessos will not be forgotten in this world, regardless of what happens. I see that as Nantucket's main long-term diplomatic tension/rivalry, as they will both want control of the Atlantic.

 

[wolf-gang]

I see that as Nantucket's main long-term diplomatic tension/rivalry, as they will both want control of the Atlantic.

We the two trading empires do have some peace connections from the king's nefuew being abopted by the swindapa-alston clan and his son and daughter being raised in nantucket

 

[Neoteros]

We the two trading empires do have some peace connections from the king's nefuew being abopted by the swindapa-alston clan and his son and daughter being raised in nantucket

Speaking of those two ladies, their brief appearance in the Dies the Fire universe gives away the fact that they will live long enough to become elderly, even though that whole scene was more or less a fever dream.

 

[wolf-gang]

Actually what happened to the tartessos king's (forgot his name) nefuew. Is he staying with Austin-kerlaylow family as like a psud-political union. Did they give him back?

 

[Coley]

McAndrews starts a modernization program for his Ethiopian regime and it prospers, but being who he is, he gets outmanuevered by some crafty local leader, and a totalitarian expansionist state arises.

 

[theg*ddam*hoi2fan]

One question is, just how long can Nantucket remain the dominant power? As noted, their main issue is manpower - they win wars primarily through (a) tech and (b) allies.

The problem is, however, what allows them to stay ahead in the technological game is their continued 20th-century tech. We see them using computers, for instance, to model airship construction. Plus, the airships, their Cherokee Brigade, and their microlights, all use scavenged gasoline engines. But those won't last forever, no matter how carefully they husband them. Which means that at a certain point, Islander tech will hit a plateau for a while. Which in turn will allow the rest of the world to catch up more.

 

[David bar Elias]

One question is, just how long can Nantucket remain the dominant power? As noted, their main issue is manpower - they win wars primarily through (a) tech and (b) allies.

The problem is, however, what allows them to stay ahead in the technological game is their continued 20th-century tech. We see them using computers, for instance, to model airship construction. Plus, the airships, their Cherokee Brigade, and their microlights, all use scavenged gasoline engines. But those won't last forever, no matter how carefully they husband them. Which means that at a certain point, Islander tech will hit a plateau for a while. Which in turn will allow the rest of the world to catch up more.

Nantucket can probably sustain a technological edge, depending on the field, for some time yet. The Republic certainly has the motivation: the Island itself was almost conquered by Tartessos at the beginning of the Walker War in a surprise attack. If nothing else, I would expect Nantucket to maintain dominance in naval and aviation technology, though manpower shortages will affect the ability if the Republic to rebuild some semblance of a 1998-type manufacturing base.

The Republic will also continue to invest in naval and aviation technology in relation to the Island’s grand strategy of monopolizing global seaborne trade and pursuing territorial expansion. The Republic may get some breathing room if the world’s other Great Powers pursue expansionist programs away from areas of Nantucket’s sphere of influence; Meizon Achaea in East Central Europe, the Hittite Empire and the Babylonian Empire in Central Asia and what would have been Persia.

Of course, Nantucket has Alba and Tartessos as realms of more immediate concern. The Alban Alliance might be friendly to Nantucket at the end of the Walker War, but they’re also a potential threat if they successfully industrialize and build up their own navy, on top of having a much higher population base. Tartessos will not be trusted in the immediate postwar generation. It’s unclear if additional wars will be fought between Nantucket and Tartessos.

 

[wolf-gang]

One question is, just how long can Nantucket remain the dominant power? As noted, their main issue is manpower - they win wars primarily through (a) tech and (b) allies.

It's a bit difficult to say really but my thought is that this world is destined for a multipolar power balance with 5 to seven relatively equal powers and the ever present dangerous "hordes".

Technological phases of stagnation and advancement will probably occure in intervals. Although no matter what I would predict space travel within 3-8 generations assuming no really bad dark age.

Nantucket it's self? Well that nation is going to be a state of change. Eventually I think the moon-peoples, sky-peoples and eagle-peopleb will probably merge to form a very influential "New Nantucket" culture.

I could see many new states will form from that culture group creating a sort of Nantucktar sphear